GUILTY IN - Amanda Blackburn, 28, pregnant, murdered, Indianapolis, 10 Nov 2015 #4

[MaxManning]

Sorry if this has been posted already - probable cause doc for the November 3rd rape :

https://drive.google.com/viewerng/v...ylor-Jalen-Watson-Sexual-assault-Dec-2015.pdf


They asked for the bank cards in that case as well. Terrifying details, and as many have said before, these guys were likely doing what they've done before when they encountered Amanda. Only difference is likely Amanda fighting back, which led to use of the gun.

 

[MaxManning]

Mom2six: did you mean excluded because it's NOT a revolver?

I don't think a non revolver can be excluded, as it's definitive, but rather a matter of assumption. Casings being picked up is plausible as well, therefore it might not have been a revolver.

 

[MaxManning]

Do we know AB was lying at the bottom of the stairs? You're not the first one to say that, and I'm not sure why. Did that notion come about because the bullet went through the base of the stairwell? The bullet could have traveled from across the room. And how would they have known she was lying down when she was shot? Without the body present, I don't think they could have known immediately. Nevertheless, they should have checked along walls and baseboards, which they probably did. But as I said, that bullet hole could have been obscured. I'm not making excuses for anyone, only trying to point out what's reasonable. I think that once they obtained information from the physical exam, and reviewed the video and photographs, they were able to put the picture together and determine where that bullet might have landed.

JMO

I don't think any of these details have been publicly released - orientation of body etc.

However, we know that one bullet entered the upper back and went downward and out the abdomen. Which to me would be consistent with Amanda falling forward after the first shot that hit the arm while she was attacking him. Another possibility is that after the first shot, she turned toward the stairs and attempted to flee and fell as he shot.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they were incompetent, however I would hope that there would be that level of attention to detail. Obscured to a common person is one thing, but I guess I see the job of investigating a crime scene as likely a far higher level of scrutiny.

But as you say, we don't know what the crime scene looked like and it might not have been apparent exactly how things went down and body could have been moved etc etc

 

[bessie]

I don't think any of these details have been publicly released - orientation of body etc.

However, we know that one bullet entered the upper back and went downward and out the abdomen. Which to me would be consistent with Amanda falling forward after the first shot that hit the arm while she was attacking him. Another possibility is that after the first shot, she turned toward the stairs and attempted to flee and fell as he shot.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying they were incompetent, however I would hope that there would be that level of attention to detail. Obscured to a common person is one thing, but I guess I see the job of investigating a crime scene as likely a far higher level of scrutiny.

But as you say, we don't know what the crime scene looked like and it might not have been apparent exactly how things went down and body could have been moved etc etc

Actually, the shot to the back was a through and through shot that entered and exited the upper back. It was a downward shot, and would have to have been aimed from the side. It's all guesswork on our part, naturally, but I tend to think she was on the ground since the time she was hit in the left side of the mouth with the gun. I've said this before, but I think she was lying face down, partially on her right side, and at some point raised her upper body, and swung her left arm out to push him away. That's when she was shot in the left hand lower left arm, followed by a second rapid shot that went through the upper back. I'm even more convinced after reading the description of the attack on the Nov. 3 victim.

 

[MaxManning]

Actually, the shot to the back was a through and through shot that entered and exited the upper back.

Where do you get this information ? I am almost positive that I read it entered the upper back on a downward angle and exited the abdomen. Not even sure how it would enter and exit the back unless it was from the side. I also believe that it was a 2 shot in succession, have noted that before.

Also, I am almost positive I read that first shot was entered the lower arm and traveled upward to the bicep/upper arm, not any shot to the hand. Is there an updated accounting of this that I missed ?


Edit -- I see in the probable cause you are right about the upper back enter/exit, I must have read the abdomen somewhere else or was mistaken.

But it does say lower arm, not hand.

But is there an autopsy report that is more detailed yet ?

 

[bessie]

Where do you get this information ? I am almost positive that I read it entered the upper back on a downward angle and exited the abdomen. Not even sure how it would enter and exit the back unless it was from the side. I also believe that it was a 2 shot in succession, have noted that before.

Also, I am almost positive I read that first shot was entered the lower arm and traveled upward to the bicep/upper arm, not any shot to the hand. Is there an updated accounting of this that I missed ?


Edit -- I see in the probable cause you are right about the upper back enter/exit, I must have read the abdomen somewhere else or was mistaken.

But it does say lower arm, not hand.

But is there an autopsy report that is more detailed yet ?

You're right, I did say hand this time. Sorry about that. What I meant was that I think she was shot when she extended her arm and hand, and the bullet entered near the wrist or lower forearm.

You were thinking abdomen because before the charging docs were released, people said she was shot in the abdomen and hand. I never did know exactly where that originated. I don't recall it was reported in the news, but I could be wrong.

No additional documents have been released yet. I think it will be awhile before any of the evidence is made public. Some of it might come out at the pretrial hearing in January, that's if it's not postponed.

ETA: I wonder when and how LE first linked LT and JW to the Nov. 3 rape. The same day, or the day after, they were arrested in Amanda's murder, the media reported that they also would be charged in the West Lake crime. But according to the affidavit, it was on Dec. 16 that Det. T interviewed the people who led him to the victim's property. And the DNA results didn't come in until Dec. 9. So there must have been something else that linked them. Fingerprints, I guess.

 

[Hoosgirl]

That pc affadavit was very hard to read. It was interesting to me that they seemed to have some connection to the victim, as they questioned her about her picking up her boyfriend. Perhaps that led LE to some connection there.

ETA: bottom of page 3 of affadavit

 

[heidisams]

That was tough to read!!! .... There were similarities, however, and what stood out to me the most (probably because of emotions) was how the victim was told to lay on the floor face down and that a gun was held to the nape of her neck throughout the assault... Compare that to AB's case, and assume she fought back, and a lot of that scene (wounds to her face, gunshot wounds, found on living from floor, underwear next to her, etc) and how it played out becomes a little clearer...and even more heartbreaking!

My heart is with both of these women....

All jmo.

 

[heidisams]

If they were involved in another homicide, I wouldn't be surprised in the least. In looking at the crime map, they should have been investigating the other multiple robberies all in a 5 mile radius that I saw as potentially related to these guys. Back in June there were 3 robberies on the same day in succession, less than a half mile southwest of blackburns. Then a month later a rape.

Not at all, I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find out they were responsible for other robberies/break-ins.. As a matter of fact, I'd be more surprised if they weren't involved in many more unsolved crimes just due to the way they entered homes with a comfort, ease, and brazenness that comes with experience, imo... Drinking liquor, having a cigar, approaching a sleeping victim, disabling surveillance/alarms, etc... Most notably though, is they didn't seem to fear occupants... Crime typically starts small and escalates over time, they don't usually start with rape and murder...

All jmo.

 

[jane_tennison]

I don't think this case is all that open & shut

 

[Lilibet]

I don't think this case is all that open & shut

Keeping in mind that DB is off limits, do I dare ask why you think it's not open and shut?

 

[jane_tennison]

Keeping in mind that DB is off limits, do I dare ask why you think it's not open and shut?

Seems too random to be random...if that makes sense. Or, it could just be stranger than fiction

 

[pappa rob]

Seems too random to be random...if that makes sense. Or, it could just be stranger than fiction

How does something seem "too random to be random"? I had doubts about a lot of things after it happened, not so many now. I love the thought though, I may have to steal that for a song title..:drumroll:

 

[SapphireSteel]

I could post several clips of Detectives saying "burglaries don't turn into murders"

because its true - mainly


Some crimes and criminals just Break The Mould

See: Israel Keyes.

Also the Gun Crime in Indy appears so rampant no one turned a hair at the shots

Police barely raised an eyebrow at the gun found


Leading to the General Impression that Indy is a City At War

Casualties will only increase

Theres a lesson here for the NRA if only they were Teachable...

 

[Lilibet]

How does something seem "too random to be random"? I had doubts about a lot of things after it happened, not so many now. I love the thought though, I may have to steal that for a song title..:drumroll:

OT-- Oh yes, papa Rob! And it HAS to be a country western song! My lyrical wheels are spinning.

"That girl you talked to at the bar
The one you said was random
I saw the knowing looks and smiles
The recognition from afar...

How dare you play me for a fool
She's too random to be random."

Needs work, but I think you're onto something papa rob. :guitar:

With apologies to Jane, who was kind enough to answer my question. I'm not sure what you mean, but you gave me a lovely moment of diversion from the sadness of this case.
Thank you. :tyou:

ETA: Knowing Bessie's sense of humor, it probably isn't necessary for me to make a disclaimer that my "lyrics" have nothing to do with implying anything about DB. But I will say for the record that my lyrics are just a totally OT RANDOM riff on a great line.

 

[bessie]

I could post numerous examples of LEO's talking about a "burglary gone wrong/bad". It's such a common occurrence that the term has made it's way into the lexicon of modern expressions. We've heard it so often it's become familiar to us.

 

[Ontario Mom]

The statement from the 11/3 assault was very difficult to read That poor woman. I also noticed though that the 2 vile monsters did seem to be familiar enough with the boyfriend to know she was supposed to be picking him at at 10pm.

And, it did not escape me how one of the creeps at least did tell the other, to stop what he was doing. Just a shame he didn't MAKE him stop.

 

[bessie]

Seems too random to be random...if that makes sense. Or, it could just be stranger than fiction

It seems all four crimes (that are known to date) were random with regard to choice of victim. It's possible they had some knowledge of the West Lake victim, but that's not been proven.

Strange? Not when you look at the body of crimes committed by these same suspects, and the similarities among them. Elements of the attack on AB match elements in all three of the other crimes. The big difference is that this time LT actually shot the gun. Had the WL victim not been compliant, she would have died first.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I could post numerous examples of LEO's talking about a "burglary gone wrong/bad". It's such a common occurrence that the term has made it's way into the lexicon of modern expressions. We've heard it so often it's become familiar to us.

Overkill = also a modern expression that definitely applies here IMO

They covered their faces

He didn't need to shoot Amanda at all let alone in the head

 

[jane_tennison]

OT-- Oh yes, papa Rob! And it HAS to be a country western song! My lyrical wheels are spinning.

"That girl you talked to at the bar
The one you said was random
I saw the knowing looks and smiles
The recognition from afar...

How dare you play me for a fool
She's too random to be random."

Needs work, but I think you're onto something papa rob. :guitar:

With apologies to Jane, who was kind enough to answer my question. I'm not sure what you mean, but you gave me a lovely moment of diversion from the sadness of this case.
Thank you. :tyou:

ETA: Knowing Bessie's sense of humor, it probably isn't necessary for me to make a disclaimer that my "lyrics" have nothing to do with implying anything about DB. But I will say for the record that my lyrics are just a totally OT RANDOM riff on a great line.

Don't forget to credit me on the album :angel:

I think as time goes on, it [the circumstances] will make more sense.