IN - Couple charged with abandonment of adopted child after legally changing her age, Sept 2019

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That is exactly what every piece of 'evidence' in this case reeks of!

Another thing is that I think the case for having N's age set at 22 was explained to the judge as being so that N could get extra help. It wasn't explained as "so we can move to another country and leave her behind on her own".

I absolutely got that just from the wording of the petition itself. It was clearly postulated by the KB's /family attorney (can't recall if they were represented by counsel or not) as "something to help Natalia get more and better services". It would be surprising if the court came away with the impression "Clearly this family is doing this because they intend upon abandoning Natalia at the end of the process." How on earth they managed to get out of it without the court's interviewing Natalia and asking her about her wishes and why she wanted it, I'm not so sure... but we've got some time and opportunity to find out in court.
 
Don't tell me... the evidence for the schizophrenia is going to be attempts to kill her family members combined with the delusion that she's really a child and not the 22 years old that she's already admitted to being?

When they said before that N was diagnosed with something that doesn't usually come on until adulthood I thought then of Schizophrenia, so this doesn't really surprise me. The only thing I'm curious about is how a doctor made that diagnosis.

I thought they said psychopath.
 
I’m watching the girl’s you tube channel. Anyone who think that teenager is an adult close to 30 needs help.

If she was an actress who could somehow pull that off she would never have simply allowed them to see her naked the first night or ever. It’s nonsense. It’s clear she’s a kid. Her demeanor. Vocabulary. How she relates to her sister. Her silly YouTube videos that many teens do that they think are so cool and important. Her facial features and structure. Total teenager.
 
Ya’ll. I’m feeling profoundly sad for N. Everything she’s been through. Being publicly dragged through the mud. Her body dissected publicly. Her mind dissected publicly.

Watching her YouTube videos she seems like a pretty normal teen despite it. Gets a long with her sister. No apparent mental issues.

But that was a year ago. Before all this. How does that sweetheart feel now?

I lost again two photos. One shows N at supposedly age 20. I see adult front teeth and side baby teeth per her birth certificate she’s about 7.

The second photo shows her in 2013 when the Mans got her. Supposedly age 23. At least 23 per the Barnett’s. Birth certificate would have her at age 10 or so here. She’s missing those same two baby teeth pictured in the first photo.

Where’d they go? Did her new, rich, grifting foster family get her new teeth? (Sarcasm alert).

Looking at dental development charts that’s a cuspid and first primary molar. Those are lost around ages 10-11. So she appears right on target for her dental development and the Barnett’s are insane. Anatomy and development of the mouth and teeth | Children's Hospital of Wisconsin

We know she had her age assessed in 2010 and was found to be 8. 2012 and found to be 11. Kristine points to another assessment she claims found N to be 14. Sounds like those psychos were desperately doctor shopping to try to get the answers they wanted.

I loathe the Barnett’s. They are despicable. Evil.
 

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I’m watching the girl’s you tube channel. Anyone who think that teenager is an adult close to 30 needs help.

If she was an actress who could somehow pull that off she would never have simply allowed them to see her naked the first night or ever. It’s nonsense. It’s clear she’s a kid. Her demeanor. Vocabulary. How she relates to her sister. Her silly YouTube videos that many teens do that they think are so cool and important. Her facial features and structure. Total teenager.
Yes after watching those, I actually felt that the Barnetts should not ever be around children ever again, even their own, because they are obviously so far out of touch with reality, they are extremely dangerous. MOO.
Edit to clarify: Really seeing her, not just still photos, brought home how young and vulnerable she is STILL, let alone 6 or 7 years ago when she was abandoned. How could they justify such self-serving evil as to just leave her like that. Makes me sick to my stomach.
 
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I just read that the woman claiming to be N's birthmother is 40?

So that would mean she was either 10 when she gave birth, or 24.

Just by Occam's razor, which is most likely?

I’m watching the girl’s you tube channel. Anyone who think that teenager is an adult close to 30 needs help.

If she was an actress who could somehow pull that off she would never have simply allowed them to see her naked the first night or ever. It’s nonsense. It’s clear she’s a kid. Her demeanor. Vocabulary. How she relates to her sister. Her silly YouTube videos that many teens do that they think are so cool and important. Her facial features and structure. Total teenager.

I thought the videos looked like a normal teenager.

What disturbed me was the number of downvotes on them. But now, after searching N's name on YouTube, I see the number of videos, the titles and content of some of them, and this is just being presented as a 22 yr old woman pulling a stunt out of the movie Orphan, and most people seem to be taking it for granted that the 22 yr age was correct ... plus a court found that was her age, how could a court get it wrong?

The concept of a 'real life' person doing the same thing as in the movie Orphan is alluring to people, it's going to get clicks and it's going to get people thinking.

I also just watched Mr Barnett on the UK's This Morning show, and it wasn't really challenging his version of events, just asking for his version of events. He brought up that three court cases confirmed N being 22 years old, and Gitana's explained to us that only one case 'made' that N's legal age, the others were only deferring to the original decision. Mr Barnett, right at the end said (paraphrasing) "I don't know why they're bringing this case against us now, because surely it's past the statute of limitations". It was interesting that he said that before they moved to Canada they'd already moved N out of the family home to an apartment close to them, and that's where she had the home help nurse, and during that time the Barnetts would visit N about two or three times a week.

I would like to know if N can now have her age legally set back to 16 if more thorough evidence is provided to a new judge, evidence for the bones and the teeth and taking into account that precocious puberty is a real thing etc?

And, *if* the court finds that the Barnetts did 'abandon' N, is this going to be more about the 'dependent' aspect than the 'minor' aspect? If the Barnetts truly believed that N was still a minor, would it matter if she was or wasn't? Especially having a judge agree to the 22 yr old age, anyone would think that if a judge has made that ruling then they're vindicated in their belief?

I'm hoping that a new hearing with all those pediatric specialists will examine all the old scans, examinations, dental exam charts etc, and show what a load of meaningless codswallop was presented to the first judge who went along with that age change, and then a jury is more likely to find N a dependent. Also, whatever lawyer the Mans could afford in 2016 surely wouldn't have been able to put as much effort into that case as the state can do now, so there's surely a better chance now of having those former decisions overturned? My concern isn't so much about the Barnetts and what they've done, it's about what's best for N...what she's lost by that court decision to increase her age, and if she could gain by having it changed back?
 
So that's what Michael B. cares about... the statute of limitations?!?

Not that he abandoned a physically diminutive and vulnerable CHILD in an apartment on her own, but whether or not it's OK to prosecute him...?!?

He cannot possibly have an attorney... can he? I feel like even the world's worst attorney would rather nail his client to a chair in his home, than they would have said client out and about on national television saying he skated past the statute of limitations?? Either there'd be a lawyer telling him to zip it altogether; or there'd be a lawyer telling him at minimum, to separate himself wholly from KB and throw himself contritely on Natalia's and the public's mercy. SMH...
 
I just read that the woman claiming to be N's birthmother is 40?

So that would mean she was either 10 when she gave birth, or 24.

Just by Occam's razor, which is most likely?



I thought the videos looked like a normal teenager.

What disturbed me was the number of downvotes on them. But now, after searching N's name on YouTube, I see the number of videos, the titles and content of some of them, and this is just being presented as a 22 yr old woman pulling a stunt out of the movie Orphan, and most people seem to be taking it for granted that the 22 yr age was correct ... plus a court found that was her age, how could a court get it wrong?

The concept of a 'real life' person doing the same thing as in the movie Orphan is alluring to people, it's going to get clicks and it's going to get people thinking.

I also just watched Mr Barnett on the UK's This Morning show, and it wasn't really challenging his version of events, just asking for his version of events. He brought up that three court cases confirmed N being 22 years old, and Gitana's explained to us that only one case 'made' that N's legal age, the others were only deferring to the original decision. Mr Barnett, right at the end said (paraphrasing) "I don't know why they're bringing this case against us now, because surely it's past the statute of limitations". It was interesting that he said that before they moved to Canada they'd already moved N out of the family home to an apartment close to them, and that's where she had the home help nurse, and during that time the Barnetts would visit N about two or three times a week.

I would like to know if N can now have her age legally set back to 16 if more thorough evidence is provided to a new judge, evidence for the bones and the teeth and taking into account that precocious puberty is a real thing etc?

And, *if* the court finds that the Barnetts did 'abandon' N, is this going to be more about the 'dependent' aspect than the 'minor' aspect? If the Barnetts truly believed that N was still a minor, would it matter if she was or wasn't? Especially having a judge agree to the 22 yr old age, anyone would think that if a judge has made that ruling then they're vindicated in their belief?

I'm hoping that a new hearing with all those pediatric specialists will examine all the old scans, examinations, dental exam charts etc, and show what a load of meaningless codswallop was presented to the first judge who went along with that age change, and then a jury is more likely to find N a dependent. Also, whatever lawyer the Mans could afford in 2016 surely wouldn't have been able to put as much effort into that case as the state can do now, so there's surely a better chance now of having those former decisions overturned? My concern isn't so much about the Barnetts and what they've done, it's about what's best for N...what she's lost by that court decision to increase her age, and if she could gain by having it changed back?

If I lived in Indiana I would take this girl’s case to change her age for free. Absolutely. Some attorney there should. I do believe she can get a reversal based on fraud perpetrated by her “parents”.

You ask some intelligent questions. A lot here in this post.

I’m not sure why he’s going on about the statute of limitations. They brought the case within five years. The statute runs after five years for a level 6 felony which this is:

Criminal Statute of Limitation | Banks & Brower

I think the case can be based on both neglect of a dependent child and/or neglect of a dependent due to disability regardless of age, if it can be proven they believed she was an adult.

As for what they believed I think KB is delusional narcissist who felt she had been fooled, was disgusted by this precious kid and fought to prove herself right. When she repeatedly didn’t get the answers she wanted I think she lied. I think she’s a Munchausen type. Sort of. She half believed her lies.

The husband comes across more as a two bit grifter. He knew that kid was a child when they left and he admitted as much.
 
I just read that the woman claiming to be N's birthmother is 40?

So that would mean she was either 10 when she gave birth, or 24.

Just by Occam's razor, which is most likely?



I thought the videos looked like a normal teenager.

What disturbed me was the number of downvotes on them. But now, after searching N's name on YouTube, I see the number of videos, the titles and content of some of them, and this is just being presented as a 22 yr old woman pulling a stunt out of the movie Orphan, and most people seem to be taking it for granted that the 22 yr age was correct ... plus a court found that was her age, how could a court get it wrong?

The concept of a 'real life' person doing the same thing as in the movie Orphan is alluring to people, it's going to get clicks and it's going to get people thinking.

I also just watched Mr Barnett on the UK's This Morning show, and it wasn't really challenging his version of events, just asking for his version of events. He brought up that three court cases confirmed N being 22 years old, and Gitana's explained to us that only one case 'made' that N's legal age, the others were only deferring to the original decision. Mr Barnett, right at the end said (paraphrasing) "I don't know why they're bringing this case against us now, because surely it's past the statute of limitations". It was interesting that he said that before they moved to Canada they'd already moved N out of the family home to an apartment close to them, and that's where she had the home help nurse, and during that time the Barnetts would visit N about two or three times a week.

I would like to know if N can now have her age legally set back to 16 if more thorough evidence is provided to a new judge, evidence for the bones and the teeth and taking into account that precocious puberty is a real thing etc?

And, *if* the court finds that the Barnetts did 'abandon' N, is this going to be more about the 'dependent' aspect than the 'minor' aspect? If the Barnetts truly believed that N was still a minor, would it matter if she was or wasn't? Especially having a judge agree to the 22 yr old age, anyone would think that if a judge has made that ruling then they're vindicated in their belief?

I'm hoping that a new hearing with all those pediatric specialists will examine all the old scans, examinations, dental exam charts etc, and show what a load of meaningless codswallop was presented to the first judge who went along with that age change, and then a jury is more likely to find N a dependent. Also, whatever lawyer the Mans could afford in 2016 surely wouldn't have been able to put as much effort into that case as the state can do now, so there's surely a better chance now of having those former decisions overturned? My concern isn't so much about the Barnetts and what they've done, it's about what's best for N...what she's lost by that court decision to increase her age, and if she could gain by having it changed back?
The lawyer who worked for the Mans in 2016 took the case pro bono, because he felt it was unfair that Natalia hadn’t had representation the first time around.
 
I wonder why they didn’t say schizophrenia. Instead they were trying to peddle the Psychopath & Sociopath diagnoses.

Because Anti Social Personality Disorder (or whatever it’s called in the US) is an adult diagnosis. It supports the case that she’s an adult. Schizophrenia can be diagnosed in children.
 
Will that be able to be brought up at trial, or will the fact that he didn’t have a lawyer at the time make that impossible?

It can be brought up. Unless he’s in a situation in which a reasonable person feels they cannot leave, like an arrest, or detention, they don’t need to even read his Miranda rights before questioning.

And if they did detain him and read him his rights and he talked it also comes in.

Having an attorney isn’t necessary to making a statement against interest admissible. If he was being detained or arrested and they read him his rights and he said he wanted an attorney and didn’t want to answer questions but then they kept asking questions any how, that would be a problem for the state. If he said “I want an attorney” and they said, “Sure. You’re entitled.” And then he spontaneously made a statement after that, it’s admissible.

But if they showed up to his house saying they were trying to figure out what was going on because some were saying the person they left was a child and they had to make sure no crime had been committed, and he voluntarily talked? They can use that and don’t have to even read him his rights unless he was in a situation in which a reasonable person would fee they aren’t allowed to leave.

Sometimes people arrested say they want a lawyer but not invoke their right to silence. They have to say, “I’m not talking and I want a lawyer.” But just saying “I want a lawyer” but not saying they won’t talk may enable any further questions to be asked and answers admitted. For example, I’ve seen situations where they mention a lawyer and the cops reply something like: “Sure. You can call a lawyer. We will make sure you can do that. You have the right to remain silent too. Are you still willing to talk to us?” If he keeps talking, it can come in.
 
Because Anti Social Personality Disorder (or whatever it’s called in the US) is an adult diagnosis. It supports the case that she’s an adult. Schizophrenia can be diagnosed in children.

Yes but like we’ve discussed on here, the age determines the diagnosis in part rather than the diagnosis determining the age. Really the differences between conduct disorder and anti social personality disorder aren’t much except the person with the latter has a lot of run ins with the law and the kid with the former has problems with school authorities. It’s just context.
 
Yes but like we’ve discussed on here, the age determines the diagnosis in part rather than the diagnosis determining the age. Really the differences between conduct disorder and anti social personality disorder aren’t much except the person with the latter has a lot of run ins with the law and the kid with the former has problems with school authorities. It’s just context.
Exactly. It’s just a circular argument - “she’s and adult because she was diagnosed as an adult so she has an adult condition so she must be an adult...”
 
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