IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[Midwestmom2019]

Daily mail wrote in the same article: He was quizzed by police in the hours after Chloe's fall but left San Juan without
giving a formal witness statement, blaming confusion, his extreme distress and the lack of an interpreter.

IMO I don't buy the lack of an interpreter. Most residents in Puerto Rico speak excellent english. The cruises ship docks in ports where the need of english speaking is a must for tourism. I believe he was terrified of being detained in Puerto Rico by LE.
Possible he talked with a lawyer in the united states before leaving Puerto Rico and was advised to leave the country as quickly as possible.
But still the family had to stay in PR till Chloe's body was allowed to leave Puerto Rico. I would believe that would take
several days.

Mom’s a lawyer. Dad and mom both said don’t take the breathalyzer. Would I be thinking to say don’t take the breathalyzer when my 18 mo. old just died a horrific death?
Next thing out of mom’s mouth was probably lawyer up. Don’t say anything.

 

[they'll get you]

Pix of Chloe at H20 zone?

@they'll get you . Good points of observation about the pic.
Is it carefully staged? Looking at it on a little tablet screen, I cannot see any other ppl in the image. Seems unusual. Anyone see other ppl? jmo.

Pix of Chloe at H20 zone?

@they'll get you . Good points of observation about the pic.
Is it carefully staged? Looking at it on a little tablet screen, I cannot see any other ppl in the image. Seems unusual. Anyone see other ppl? jmo.

Wanna know something really weird? You asked ‘staged’?
While I was sleuthing this picture I noticed Chloé isn’t casting a shadow even though she is standing in the afternoon sun.

 

[they'll get you]

DBM

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Pix & Copyright?
@they'll get you In one pic, looks like the law firm rep'ing Chloe's parents in contemplated/threatened civil suit against cruise line. Below is a link to a search result.

Who knows who took pix?? Could have been Mom or Dad, or brother. Or another passenger, who provided to them. IDK.

Darling pix of a darling girl.
-----------------------------------------------
"lipcon.com - Maritime Injury Attorney
https://www.lipcon.com

• Overview
• Reviews

• About LMAW, PA. The maritime lawyers at Lipcon, Margulies, Alsina & Winkleman have been dedicated to helping victims of cruise line related accidents, injuries and crimes for over 40 years."

He doesn’t look 60-65 years old to me.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Wanna know something really weird? You asked ‘staged’?
While I was sleuthing this picture I noticed Chloé isn’t casting a shadow even though she is standing in the afternoon sun.

View attachment 217063

Depends when they boarded. It could be at high noon bc there’s a little bit of a shadow under her shoes. And that may be why there are very few other children around. Just boarding. The family might have been one of the first to board. Bc of Chloe. Like airplanes. Babies toddlers and the elderly get special priority boarding.

However, it certainly is not a picture of her just prior to her death as reported.

 

[neesaki]

IMO he sat her on the railing, not the window ledge. All the msm articles say SA first stood Chloe up on the railing then sat her on it. None have mentioned the window ledge.

What's frustrating is none of the articles describe what happened during those 3 or 4 seconds before she fell. I'm not trying to be macabre, it just feels like there's a gap in the explanation; she's sitting on the railing, SA has two hands on her, they lean forward to see out the window then... 1, 2, 3, 4... Chloe disappears through the window. Maybe I'm overthinking it, I don't know.

Maybe you’re over thinking the way I have been, trying to find some rhyme or reason for this gross act of negligence.
SadlyI don’t think we’ll ever have a logical explanation. Because what this “GP” did was far beyond reasoning, so for most of us it’s incomprehensible. Jmo

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Who said what?
. @apricotpeach bbm
So many articles and multiple atty's, hard to tell which one ^ post refers to without a link.
Re ^ bbm, which attorney said that, pls? TiA.

No MSM journalist is going to say SA dangled her out of the window. Although one did say video shows her sitting facing the port.

 

[al66pine]

Pix of Chloe, H20 Zone, Water Depth?

This child’s wading pool is only inches deep IIRC and the step down into the water appears to be 1’, Chloé must have been a very reliable child to stand alone unattended even for 5 seconds while this photo was taken.I’m not saying she was in a dangerous place at this time but still she was a baby.
View attachment 217043

re bbm. I cannot tell much from this pic itself.
From other pix, I got impression that water is only a few inches deep. No link, no support. jmo.

 

[LietKynes]

Mom’s a lawyer. Dad and mom both said don’t take the breathalyzer. Would I be thinking to say don’t take the breathalyzer when my 18 mo. old just died a horrific death?
Next thing out of mom’s mouth was probably lawyer up. Don’t say anything.

^^^ Agreed.
This case seems so hinky.
Just something terribly 'off'.
Most of the articles saying that the ship's employees said SA was 'dangling' her are older, and have been replaced by Winkleman's scrubbed versions.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Wanna know something really weird? You asked ‘staged’?
While I was sleuthing this picture I noticed Chloé isn’t casting a shadow even though she is standing in the afternoon sun.

View attachment 217063

Ok. Follow along with my thinking from They’ll get you post. If she was out in the noon sun, who was watching her the entire time? Maybe SA was with Chloe while the family went to cabins, unpatched, checked out room amenities, then family came back around.
SA might have had some cocktails, bar snacks to tide him over.
Family says you need relief from Chloe? He’s a little buzzed, “no. I’ll stay here you go eat. Bring me something back while I smoke out here and have another drink.”
By this time Chloe probably didn’t have her afternoon nap and was cranky and hungry. Sunburned, too.
SA picks her up to amuse her while they wait for return of family.

 

[al66pine]

Winkleman's Age?
from lipcon.com "About LMAW, PA. The maritime lawyers at Lipcon, Margulies, Alsina & Winkleman have been dedicated to helping victims of cruise line related accidents, injuries and crimes for over 40 years." bbm

He doesn’t look 60-65 years old to me.

@Midwestmom2019 Me neither, from looks on vid or still pix..
I've seen other firms saying something along this same line, interpreted it to mean that one (or more) of the atty's in the firm has been practicing and/or licensed for 40 yrs, not that each atty in firm has been in practice 40 yrs or w the firm for 40 yrs. But just my interp.
Or was post saying something else?

 

[neesaki]

Pix of Chloe at H20 zone?

@they'll get you . Good points of observation about the pic.
Is it carefully staged? Looking at it on a little tablet screen, I cannot see any other ppl in the image. Seems unusual. Anyone see other ppl? jmo.

Omg, you’re right, sure seems unusual to me! For that matter, do we really know that’s Chloe?

 

[Midwestmom2019]

IMO he sat her on the railing, not the window ledge. All the msm articles say SA first stood Chloe up on the railing then sat her on it. None have mentioned the window ledge.

What's frustrating is none of the articles describe what happened during those 3 or 4 seconds before she fell. I'm not trying to be macabre, it just feels like there's a gap in the explanation; she's sitting on the railing, SA has two hands on her, they lean forward to see out the window then... 1, 2, 3, 4... Chloe disappears through the window. Maybe I'm overthinking it, I don't know.

Leaning forward may have obstructed camera view. If cameras were in area on ceilings. Hopefully there are outside cameras, too.
Maybe SA was more interested in the view than Chloe? And therefore leaned out to get a bigger picture of the bustling port.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Winkleman's Age?
from lipcon.com "About LMAW, PA. The maritime lawyers at Lipcon, Margulies, Alsina & Winkleman have been dedicated to helping victims of cruise line related accidents, injuries and crimes for over 40 years." bbm
@Midwestmom2019 Me neither, from looks on vid or still pix..
I've seen other firms saying something along this same line, interpreted it to mean that one (or more) of the atty's in the firm has been practicing and/or licensed for 40 yrs, not that each atty in firm has been in practice 40 yrs or w the firm for 40 yrs. But just my interp.
Or was post saying something else?

Sorry. Missed the part about the firm is 40 years. But he’s a named principal. Works like a dog on these cases, no doubt.

 

[they'll get you]

Pix of Chloe, H20 Zone, Water Depth?

re bbm. I cannot tell much from this pic itself.
From other pix, I got impression that water is only a few inches deep. No link, no support. jmo.

@1:30 this is where I think Chloé is standing.
From the kids running in the water you can see is only inches deep but the timber ledge down to the water is about a 1’ drop.

@:20 you can see most windows are open, this is usual. IMO.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

These pictures are NOT of the same windows!!
I am not going to be persuaded by shots like this.
View attachment 217044
Pease look at the deck chairs here which are not tall and these windows do not appear to open so the railing is low.


Where here it’s abvious these windows are higher.
IMO.

the pictures from the supposed scene looking across town of windows from almost being in top of the railing, look to be wide angle shots bc everything is bowed. Like funny mirrors at a circus. So can’t tell much from them, either.

 

[katydid23]

I'm curious about where other family members were at the time of the incident. The family group had likely only been on the ship for a few hours (IIRC, embarkation began at noon), so they probably hadn't seen much of the ship, let alone become acclimated to their surroundings. Why was Grandpa already looking after Chloe? Was SA asked to care for Chloe, or did he offer to look after her?

The CBS report suggests that Chloe was running towards the wall of windows and that Grandpa was following her. Chloe was probably pretty quick, while SA doesn't look like he can move very fast. How closely did he follow? What if Chloe had gotten so far away from Grandpa that he couldn't find her? Something wrong with these circumstances. In the replayed clip from the parents' Today Show interview, Chloe's mother makes a big deal about SA never, ever putting their children in danger. Methinks she protests too much!

From what I read, The parents, grandmother and older brother had gone to the buffet. I am not sure where that is located though.

 

[al66pine]

Pic w Chloe's Shoes. Shadows or Soles?

Depends when they boarded. It could be at high noon bc there’s a little bit of a shadow under her shoes. And that may be why there are very few other children around. Just boarding. The family might have been one of the first to board. Bc of Chloe. Like airplanes. Babies toddlers and the elderly get special priority boarding.
However, it certainly is not a picture of her just prior to her death as reported.

@Midwestmom2019 Good point about early boarding.
re bbm What (I think) you see as a bit of shadow under her shoes, I see as black rubber on side-sole of her shoes. Looks like a short black vertical "stripe" of same up her heels. Maybe w a little black loop or tab to help put shoes off and on.
All kinds of ways to see & interp these pix. Jmo, could be wrong.

 

[BeachSky]

@1:30 this is where I think Chloé is standing.
From the kids running in the water you can see is only inches deep but the timber ledge down to the water is about a 1’ drop.

@:20 you can see most windows are open, this is usual. IMO.

Thanks for this...
Of all the amazing things there to “do” with her why did he seat her in an open window?
The video clearly shows open windows are clear - not green.
I’m not buying what they are selling. JMO

 

[book-thinker]

If the water is 1 ft. deep -- I can't imagine an adult not holding her little hand !

Even at about 3 or 4 yrs old --you have to keep a close eye out for them, esp. near water.

Toddlers move fast. She could easily fall into the water, it doesn’t matter if it’s 1in deep or not. Why wasn’t a responsible person holding her hand for this photo.