IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

[SouthAussie]

Mainstream media are reporting on the lawsuit now. I have read the comments made by readers on various sites and while some people feel sorry for the family, nobody thinks this is the cruise line's fault. Everybody puts the blame squarely where it belongs - on SA.
I thought that SA might enter into a plea deal but now I think it's very unlikely. It would not only undermine the civil case against RCCL but also be an admission of guilt towards the parents, who still support him and believe he's being unjustly persecuted.

Quite in contrast to the '6 billion' people who think that the cruise ship is negligent, while a 'small group' think that it is not - according to Winkleman in the press conference.

I think he is trying to garner a mob mentality. 'Follow the mob (of an imaginary 6 billion people) ... think like them'.

 

[LietKynes]

“her birthday is Friday, so, she would have been two. I had planned to go and see ‘Frozen 2’ with her; that was going to be her first trip to the movies. I know that it's going to be a very painful day." So, KW knew last Summer that Frozen 2 would be out by Chloe's 2nd birthday? Am I missing something?

bbm

It's as if they're making it up as they go along.
Remember that she was a "foodie" and a "sports fan" ?
They're trying to create a person that never existed.
Chloe had all of her life ahead of her -- she was still a baby.

And no, she wasn't a "fashionista" , either.
Children at 18 months are still needing to be dressed by an adult. So how was she into fashion ?
There is something strange about this family.

Most people with a toddler would want privacy and to grieve out of the public eye.
But the Wiegand's & Co. are so forceful and strident about wanting their money.
Money that they do not deserve.
Suing RCCL is dishonest when you know they've done nothing wrong.

 

[sl222]

Parents Whose Daughter Died on Cruise Ship Sue Royal Caribbean, Say They Feel 'Helpless, Hopeless'

Thanks for that. On tv again?? On that clip, Winkleman says, "You just had this terrible perfect storm of factors that led to..." Exactly and most of those were all on SA. Winkleman's statements are not always helpful to their case.

It's a wonder ships still even have balconies; when you go on any boat, you are taking serious risks IMO and you need to be careful. A lot of commenters on DM are making good points that you have to be responsible with you're with a baby or toddler PERIOD. One commenter even said that on a ship, she would have her toddler with her always and would not even have him or her with the grandparents. I feel the same. I would have trusted my mother because she had common sense; but not my father; he just didn't have that mother-mentality when it came to covering all the bases.

Parents of Chloe Wiegand sue Royal Caribbean over her death | Daily Mail Online

 

[MassGuy]

I keep thinking about whether or not SA was impaired in any way. I find it hard to believe none of the reporters at their press conference asked about that. They must have been told beforehand that certain questions were off the table.
I wonder why PR LE didn't insist on a blood test after this happened. Apparently they weren't able to compel him to take a breathalyzer so I guess a blood test was out of the question.
In the U.S. if there is a death caused by a motor vehicle accident I believe it is common for the LEO to require the driver to take a blood test. Too bad that wasn't the case here, although I recognize it is a completely different set of circumstances. But I wish a test had been given because then any doubt as to his sobriety would be eliminated.
Gramps could have been drinking, and hopefully that won't be hard to prove if so, based on bar receipts witnesses or if he smelled of alcohol when talking to the first responders on the crew. He also could have had any other number of substances in his blood stream, maybe he smoked a joint or who knows if he used any other substances, pain pills or prescription medication. I'm just speculating but if Gramps was stoned, it could have been a huge factor in this incident. Unfortunately it seems we will never know. It does seem unlikely but not impossible. MOO

Yes, if he was under the influence of alcohol, there would be evidence of that.

Cruise ships have no shortage of cameras, and purchases are tracked (generally), by a swipe of the room key. Bartenders would also be able to testify to this.

Even without proving he was drinking, he’s still in huge trouble. Excessive alcohol would solidify it.

 

[LietKynes]

Parents sue Royal Caribbean for negligence after 1-year-old daughter falls to her death - ABC News
"..... accusing Royal Caribbean of playing "a major role in the death of our child..."
Sounds like they're saying RCCL killed her.

"... However, unbeknownst to them, the pane of glass directly in front of them was actually a window slid completely open, according to the complaint, which was filed in federal court in Miami..."
emph. mine

Yes, let's just include Chloe in the blame for her death.
So, both gramps and Chloe should have known the window was open ?

"... girl was in her grandfather's arms, sitting on a wooden railing..."
Not true.
SA himself said he had one arm around her w/a closed fist.
And that he stood her on that rail or the window ledge -- she was not sitting.

Took a look around other msm sites.
Can't bring the comments over to WS, but about 99 % echo the same sentiments as the posts here.
No one is falling for Winkleman's BS.

 

[al66pine]

PR Crim Charge is G'pa SA is Facing. Family Comments

In presser earlier today, Chloe's Mother mentioned the misdemeanor chg that G'pa faces in connection w Chloe's death. She also said she does not think it serves a useful purpose (my paraphrasing). Her comments are ~ 2:30 min to 5:00 min in 17+ min. presser vid on WSBT-TV facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2630265240428708

/

Just trying to step into her shoes to imagine what I would want. Maybe impossible to do.

When "Negligent Homicide" announcement was made by PR officials (in Oct?) I posted info about PR statute, classifying it as a misdemeanor, but imposing a penalty of a 4th degree felony, essentially 6 mo. to 3 yrs imprisonment, and parole eligibility after serving half of sentence.

--------------------------------------------------
^ from Laws of Puerto Rico Annotated, 33 L.P.R.A. § 4737

 

[Only4Justice]

Yes. I would normally be very sympathetic towards the family - after all, what is worse than losing a child? - but their gimme-gimme-gimme attitude is turning me off. Crowdfunding sites for everything - their child's funeral, their legal expenses, grandpa's legal expenses, travel expenses, even their son's hockey - and now they want to sue the cruise line for millions of dollars.
PS - Some posters here have mentioned that the family might be heavily in debt and that may be the motivation for the money-chasing. I know that both parents have well-paying careers, but I've seen lots of people with very good incomes who are in debt up to their eyebrows.

Parents Whose Daughter Died on Cruise Ship Sue Royal Caribbean, Say They Feel 'Helpless, Hopeless'

Wow just WOW. So many thoughts here.

It is so apparent to me anyway that they are blaming RCC. I can’t imagine suing in this situation? Maybe takes their mind off of it.

The dad said, we thought she fell in the water. Really? She would Not have survived that either.

And the Mom??? IMO she is trying to assuage her guilt for leaving Chloe with an incompetent adult.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

gee I make good


Wow just WOW. So many thoughts here.

It is so apparent to me anyway that they are blaming RCC. I can’t imagine suing in this situation? Maybe takes their mind off of it.

The dad said, we thought she fell in the water. Really? She would Not have survived that either.

And the Mom??? IMO she is trying to assuage her guilt for leaving Chloe with an incompetent adult.

If SA is really that impaired, incompetent and just plain stupid KW would pretty much have to had known. He has been married to her mother for around 20 years.

 

[mickey2942]

“her birthday is Friday, so, she would have been two. I had planned to go and see ‘Frozen 2’ with her; that was going to be her first trip to the movies. I know that it's going to be a very painful day." So, KW knew last Summer that Frozen 2 would be out by Chloe's 2nd birthday? Am I missing something?

Ever been to a movie theater with a two year old? You don't watch the movie, 2 year olds have an attention span of about 2 minutes, then, they want to run around. They talk and ask why it is dark, then they cry.

Either Chloe Wiegand was the most precocious child ever, or this family was really checked out on normal behavior for a two year old.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Ever been to a movie theater with a two year old? You don't watch the movie, 2 year olds have an attention span of about 2 minutes, then, they want to run around. They talk and ask why it is dark, then they cry.

Either Chloe Wiegand was the most precocious child ever, or this family was really checked out on normal behavior for a two year old.

BBM Makes about as much sense as taking one on a cruise, or camping.

 

[mickey2942]

How could Royal Caribbean Cruise Line have prevented Chloe Wiegand from "plunging" to her death?

I am quoting directly from the news tonight. Chloe was a year and a half old, she didn't "plunge" to her death. She was deliberately placed in a precarious position by an adult. The news media makes it sound like she toddled off an open deck.

I don't see that Royal Caribbean could have done anything to prevent this tragedy.

 

[Aydrianna523]

I think he was either showing off or buzzed possibly BOTH.

JMO

Sounds about right...

 

[Barnabas]

The only person who could have prevented this from happening is the person who made it happen.

 

[1&2&3]

In watching the above video of the family at the press conference after filing the suit, something came to my attention.

Grandpa, SA, is a very heavy set man. Consequently his arms appear to be short.

This would be the reason he stated he was holding Chloe with “one arm and a closed fist”. His tummy was too big to hold her with both arms. Sorry SA, just pointing out facts.

Therefore, SA did NOT have a good hold on her and the thought of him holding Chloe up to the window ledge or whatever happened, is terrifying! A one arm hold on a squirmy toddler at an open window is dangerous wherever it takes place .

Another aspect that is disturbing, is if GP leaned forward with Chloe in his one arm. An easy way for him to loose his grip. Too sad.

 

[Kakidoll]

This family has issues. They are living in a fantasy world if sites to the point you can't believe a word they say. I'm wondering now if Chloe had medical issues. Something is way off. They are making a lot of money off of this accident. Insurance, fundraisers, and more. A lawyer and a cop. Nope, my hinky meter is if the charts and had been from the beginning... Just getting worse every time I hear them talk.

 

[Jewels53]

After watching the video of the news conference the person that looks the most hurt by the loss of Chloe is her father. He almost looks like he wants no part of the lawsuit. He has said nothing as far as the suit goes. I just wonder if Chloes mom and Winkleman are running this show.
imo

 

[Chikkamma]

Miscellaneous observations & questions I have... JMOO.

Things I believe would undermine the Wiegand's lawsuit:
1. Had the family been on a cruise before? Promenade decks with working windows have been a staple of cruise lines for years. If its found that the family had been on a similar cruise in the past, I believe it would undermine their case and claim of ignorance.
2. Is there CCTV footage of grandpa on the 11th floor deck BEFORE he started watching Chloe? Perhaps when he first boarded and was exploring the ship? If there's video of him walking around the 11th floor before the incident feeling the breeze and/or looking out a window, their claim of ignorance is undermined.

Why is grandpa lying about things that are easily verifiable as FALSE?
1. Per SA's interview on CBS This Morning: "When I knelt down to be with her at that level, I COULDN'T REACH THE GLASS REALLY with my fingertips, SO I KNEW SHE COULDN'T, so that's when I decided I'd pick her up". This is a blatant falsehood. I have been on this ship. Any adult or child with arms can walk directly up to the lower level glass AND TOUCH it as long as they have fingers. It is impossible for SA (or Chloe) to not have been able to touch the bottom glass with their fingers or whole face if they wanted to.

Why I believe the CCTV video will show SA holding some part of Chloe's body THROUGH/OUTSIDE the window (i.e. going past where the pane of glass would have been) before he lost his grip:
1. Per SA's interview on CBS This Morning: "I had her, and I was trying to knock on the glass, and at that point, I'm like, I'm gonna have to lean further for her to be able to reach it, right, CAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS FURTHER OUT THAN I EXPECTED...". The man says it himself! He's arguing that he thought there was GLASS BEYOND THE GLASS, which is obviously ridiculous but perhaps the only possible defense he could have. I do not believe journalists have seen the entire unedited footage, but I believe SA's own words tell us what is on it.
2. The railing is ~18inches from the window ledge. If she had only been held 1-10 inches BEYOND railing when she slipped, she would more likely have banged her head and/or upper body on the window ledge but fallen on the floor INSIDE the ship. She would have to have been held ~10-18 inches (estimate) BEYOND the railing for the laws of physics to allow her to topple to her death OUTSIDE the window.

I could be wrong. JMOO.

 

[MaryG12]

Say Chloe did want to look out the window and bang on the glass.

Grandpa should have checked to see if it is viable and safe, or, if he was in full of control of his faculties, say something like: "No no Chloe let's get some ice cream" or something like that.

That way Chloe would be safe and happy at the same time.

 

[oviedo]

After watching the video of the news conference the person that looks the most hurt by the loss of Chloe is her father. He almost looks like he wants no part of the lawsuit. He has said nothing as far as the suit goes. I just wonder if Chloes mom and Winkleman are running this show.
imo

I’m predicting a split within 3 years
JMO

 

[Aydrianna523]

In watching the above video of the family at the press conference after filing the suit, something came to my attention.

Grandpa, SA, is a very heavy set man. Consequently his arms appear to be short.

This would be the reason he stated he was holding Chloe with “one arm and a closed fist”. His tummy was too big to hold her with both arms. Sorry SA, just pointing out facts.

Therefore, SA did NOT have a good hold on her and the thought of him holding Chloe up to the window ledge or whatever happened, is terrifying! A one arm hold on a squirmy toddler at an open window is dangerous wherever it takes place .

Another aspect that is disturbing, is if GP leaned forward with Chloe in his one arm. An easy way for him to loose his grip. Too sad.

Makes sense. Young guys often put a young child on their shoulders, throw one in the air, or raise a child by their hands. They think they are strong...macho. Not necessarily. I knew a young guy who dropped his baby that way. A little shoulder can be injured by lifting them up by the hands, etc.
Maybe, and it's just a maybe, grandpa was over sure of himself. And you mentioned his weight didn't help matters.
It still is wrong what he did. It's been pointed out many times (in most every post here) that other people don't have the problem of knowing NOT to do that. So I have to say its an unreasonable action.