IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

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Kakidoll said:
Sorry, Kim is a lawyer. She should know better. I don't consider this grief, i consider it greed. This whole thing is about greed and making money off of their dead child that grandpa negligently dropped to her death.
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Yes. I would normally be very sympathetic towards the family - after all, what is worse than losing a child? - but their gimme-gimme-gimme attitude is turning me off. Crowdfunding sites for everything - their child's funeral, their legal expenses, grandpa's legal expenses, travel expenses, even their son's hockey - and now they want to sue the cruise line for millions of dollars.
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SaguaroSpirit said:
Those you mentioned are possible motives. But to me, it's the way that everyone involved acted immediately following the incident. Not sticking around for a thorough investigation, for one.If it were MY child , I would want to know EXACTLY what happened, especially since I wasn't present to see it with my own eyes. Immediately lawyering up. Being oh-so-forgiving of the person who caused my child's death. Spreading lies about the circumstances of the occurrence. CHANGING of stories. Multiple fundraisers. The whole situation is just beyond accidental, MOO. Too many red flags, and I probably am missing some. If I am wrong, I will be happy to admit it.
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I've always been more than a little suspicious about Grandpa not submitting to a breathalyzer and not making an official statement to PR authorities.
 
I'm just disgusted with the continued stance of these people. I feel for their pain and the loss of Chloe, but it's hard.

As for the lawsuit, I really hope RCCL's lawyers are reading here for some stellar arguments to the ridiculous claim of negligence on their part. NO WINDOWS ON SHIPS! How DARE they! It's like suing the ocean for having water in it - ludicrous!
 
What's next? I can see it now. . . cruise passenger sues RCCL for concussion sustained after banging head into window he thought was open. Sounds farcical at first, of course, but it wouldn't be out of the realm of Attorney W's type of clients. MOO
 
Crime G'pa is Charged with Now, in PR: Negligent Homicide.
oviedo said:
I wonder if there is a possibility they will change the charge ? Is there something worse than negligent homicide that isn’t murder ? ....
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@oviedo :) Good question. sbm From my post in earlier thread, repeating current charge. Will have to dig around for other possible charges, will post later. Hopefully soon.

Negligent Homicide Statute in Puerto Rico
"§ 4737. Negligent homicide
Any person who causes the death of another through negligence shall incur a misdemeanor, but shall receive the penalty established for a fourth degree felony...."*
"§ 4694. Applicable penalties
"(e) Fourth degree felony. — Entails a punishment of imprisonment for a fixed term in natural years which shall not be less than six (6) months and one (1) day, nor more than three (3) years. In such case, the person may be considered for parole by the Parole Board upon having served fifty percent (50%) of the term of imprisonment imposed."

^ bbm. Interesting to me that NegHom offense is a misdemeanor, but with a fourth degree felony punishment.
------------------------------------------------------------------
* [ed: rest of this section 4737 re motor vehicular deaths is not app to case at hand]. When the death is caused while driving a motor vehicle with wanton disregard for the safety of others, or while aiming and shooting a firearm at an undefined target, the offender shall incur a third degree felony.
When the death is caused while driving a motor vehicle under the influence of controlled substances or alcoholic beverages, as provided and defined in §§ 5001 et seq. of Title 9, known as the “Puerto Rico Vehicle and Traffic Act”, the offender shall incur a second degree felony.
^ from Laws of Puerto Rico Annotated, 33 L.P.R.A. § 4737
 
I have been reading everyones post just haven't commented before.

I will never understand the suing of company's or individuals after a death or accident. It will never bring back an individual or Chloe in this instance. No amount of money could compensate me for a loved one. Grandpa should have never put Chloe on the bar/handrail whether if he knew the window was open or not. I believe once he stood in front of the window he could tell it was open. I hope jurors can see right through the evidence.

I really feel this family is in serious denial about who is really responsible for Chloe's death. So they have latched on to the cruise line is responsible.
 
neesaki said:
And knowing what we do now about the ship being docked in port on U.S. territory explains a lot about why the family and Winkleman are so intent on pursuing this. As they say, just follow the money. Makes me sick.
And good ole gramps, sitting there all tongue tied, still too big of a coward to admit the truth and own HIS negligence, responsibility, and gross lack of judgment in this tragedy.

This was no freak accident, it was willfull negligence that required not one, but a series of actions by that man.
1. picking Chloe up,
2. holding her up to a high open window,
3. recklessly leaning over and out through the window with Chloe
4. carelessly not holding her tightly and in a safe manner
5. then pushing / dropping her out the window to her death.

I’m so livid, I wanted to reach through my computer screen.

And I’m shocked, truly shocked, Chloe’s father would go along with this charade. But maybe I shouldn’t be.

And that the SB FOP voiced their opinion on the case is IMO highly inappropriate for public servants to do so in a case like this. They are supposed to be in the position of law enforcement, now they have switched roles and have instead chosen the path of blind loyalty. WTH?!
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bbm

If the amount is unlimited according to a previous post-- this could run into well over 800 mil.
More than enough to spread around.
And could be a motive.

Montrealaise said:
Yes. I would normally be very sympathetic towards the family - after all, what is worse than losing a child? - but their gimme-gimme-gimme attitude is turning me off. Crowdfunding sites for everything - their child's funeral, their legal expenses, grandpa's legal expenses, travel expenses, even their son's hockey - and now they want to sue the cruise line for millions of dollars.
PS - Some posters here have mentioned that the family might be heavily in debt and that may be the motivation for the money-chasing. I know that both parents have well-paying careers, but I've seen lots of people with very good incomes who are in debt up to their eyebrows.
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bbm

Why do others have to pay for their son's hockey ?
It's the parents' actions even more than gramps that looks suspicious to many.

BetteDavisEyes said:
I've always been more than a little suspicious about Grandpa not submitting to a breathalyzer and not making an official statement to PR authorities.
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Question : Could he have been high and didn't want to be caught and held there ?
Or did he know what he did-- and how it'd look on the security cams -- and thought he'd better get his azz out of there ?
 
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Other Possible PR Crim Charges Against G'pa?
@oviedo :) Re 4733 if G’pa had no intent to kill Chloe, I do not see how murder chg's. would apply.

Even if we argue, hypothetically, G'pa's 'scare the child' game of his (hypo'ly) holding her up close to window was intentional abuse of a minor, per 4734(b) below, presumably G'pa did not have intent to kill.
I may be missing something else in PR crim statutes, linked below. Anyone else? Pls jump right in.

"§ 4733. Murder
Murder is to kill another human being with intent.
§ 4734. Degrees of murder
First degree murder is constituted by:
(a) Any murder committed by means of poison, stalking or torture, or with premeditation.
(b) Any murder committed as a natural consequence of the attempt or consummation of aggravated arson, sexual assault, robbery, aggravated burglary, kidnapping, child abduction, serious damage or destruction, poisoning of bodies of water for public use, mayhem, escape, and intentional abuse or abandonment of a minor.
(c) The murder of a law enforcement officer, school police, municipal guard or police officer, marshal, prosecutor, solicitor for minors’ affairs, special family solicitors for child abuse, judge or custody officer in the performance of his duty, committed while carrying out, attempting or concealing a felony.
Any other intentional killing of a human being constitutes second degree murder."
bbm

---------------------------------------------------------------
^ from Laws of Puerto Rico Annotated
TITLE THIRTY-THREE Penal Code
Subtitle 5 Penal Code of 2004—Special Provisions
PART I. Crimes Against the Person
Chapter 297. Crimes Against Life
Subchapter I. Murder and Homicide
 
SuzDuJour said:
So given his history of ignoring several citations for not wearing a seatbelt, why does anyone think he would’ve been more careful regarding a sign saying the window was open?
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Passenger safety information is included with pre-cruise documents and in the passenger contract (cruise ticket). There is no excuse for Grandpa not knowing that he shouldn't lean out a window or, worse, place a toddler on the railing or window ledge for a better look outside the ship.

I hope that frequent Royal Caribbean guests and/or those who own stock in the company are writing to RCCL and telling them NOT to give this greedy family one red cent.
 
Mainstream media are reporting on the lawsuit now. I have read the comments made by readers on various sites and while some people feel sorry for the family, nobody thinks this is the cruise line's fault. Everybody puts the blame squarely where it belongs - on SA.
I thought that SA might enter into a plea deal but now I think it's very unlikely. It would not only undermine the civil case against RCCL but also be an admission of guilt towards the parents, who still support him and believe he's being unjustly persecuted.
 
neesaki said:
I guess if nothing else, the suit will force the cruise line to Idiot Proof their ships. SMH
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Who wants to go on a cruise with bats on the windows? Will they cage in the deck, and rooftop pools?

Just like the people who want Grand Canyon to be surrounded with childproof fencing, it would spoil it for everyone else.
 
IceIce9 said:
Who wants to go on a cruise with bats on the windows? Will they cage in the deck, and rooftop pools?

Just like the people who want Grand Canyon to be surrounded with childproof fencing, it would spoil it for everyone else.
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Exactly. It’s one thing if there is a legitimate safety hazard, but this ain’t that. Just have an ounce of personal responsibility, and everything will be just fine.
 
Montrealaise said:
Mainstream media are reporting on the lawsuit now. I have read the comments made by readers on various sites and while some people feel sorry for the family, nobody thinks this is the cruise line's fault. Everybody puts the blame squarely where it belongs - on SA.
I thought that SA might enter into a plea deal but now I think it's very unlikely. It would not only undermine the civil case against RCCL but also be an admission of guilt towards the parents, who still support him and believe he's being unjustly persecuted.
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The parents apparently think their wish that GP not be prosecuted is the only thing that matters. Just imagine what out criminal justice system would be like if that were indeed the case. Their attitude is baffling to me.
 
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neesaki said:
The parents apparently think their wishes that GP not be prosecuted are the only thing that matter. Just imagine hat out criminal justice system would be like if that were indeed the case. Their attitude is baffling to me.
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They apparently watch too much tv. The filing of charges has absolutely nothing to do with if they want to “press charges” or not.
 
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