IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

[al66pine]

Not yet - next week - I’ve packed my tape measure although now we know Freedoms railing is 18” from opening

@oviedo So glad you will be able to provide some unbiased observations & info.
18 inches? So says the Complaint.
Pls, pls pls double check w your tape measure and/or phone ruler/scale app. And take pic.

A wish list for you, Detective Oviedo and any other cruisers:
When on board, w Complaint on screen, take pic - same thing/same angle/same distance.
Put your phone/camera down, look again, to see what is NOT shown in Complaint pix.

The rail height is bugging me. In some MSM pix, rail is same height as frames dividing bottom row of windows from middle row of windows. In some pix, looks several inches higher; in other pix, looks lower. Seems it's a matter of camera angle. A pic taken 'straight on' w camera at same height as rail should help.
In interview a couple(?) days ago (w ABC reporter, watching vid?) Winkleman said G'pa was w Chloe in H20 Zone, then went to shower area. In H20 Zone? I'm imagining 'showers' in open area, spigots at head height placed on those bright-colored figures. IOW, showers for kiddy water play? Pic pls?

While investigating & taking photos, wearing a Sherlock Holmes deerstalker cap and smoking a briar pipe is optional. After all, this is an undercover operation. . Be safe and have a great time.

pic from amazon.

 

[justbreathe]

In the interview video it's even worse than just having one arm, but he also had a close fist as well...he was barely holding her at all as he placed her dangerously on the railing.

He was just balancing her, then ooops!

 

[justbreathe]

Those you mentioned are possible motives. But to me, it's the way that everyone involved acted immediately following the incident. Not sticking around for a thorough investigation, for one.If it were MY child , I would want to know EXACTLY what happened, especially since I wasn't present to see it with my own eyes. Immediately lawyering up. Being oh-so-forgiving of the person who caused my child's death. Spreading lies about the circumstances of the occurrence. CHANGING of stories. Multiple fundraisers. The whole situation is just beyond accidental, MOO. Too many red flags, and I probably am missing some. If I am wrong, I will be happy to admit it.

Yes, this. Something about the way the family conducts themselves seems very, very off.

<modsnip>

 

[justbreathe]

And knowing what we do now about the ship being docked in port on U.S. territory explains a lot about why the family and Winkleman are so intent on pursuing this. As they say, just follow the money. Makes me sick.
And good ole gramps, sitting there all tongue tied, still too big of a coward to admit the truth and own HIS negligence, responsibility, and gross lack of judgment in this tragedy.

This was no freak accident, it was willfull negligence that required not one, but a series of actions by that man.
1. picking Chloe up,
2. holding her up to a high open window,
3. recklessly leaning over and out through the window with Chloe
4. carelessly not holding her tightly and in a safe manner
5. then pushing / dropping her out the window to her death.

I’m so livid, I wanted to reach through my computer screen.

And I’m shocked, truly shocked, Chloe’s father would go along with this charade. But maybe I shouldn’t be.

And that the SB FOP voiced their opinion on the case is IMO highly inappropriate for public servants to do so in a case like this. They are supposed to be in the position of law enforcement, now they have switched roles and have instead chosen the path of blind loyalty. WTH?!

You left out standing then sitting her on a handrailing meant only for hands and not ever for sitting or standing.

 

[justbreathe]

Gee, health insurance that police and lawyers get would usually take care of most of the bills. It seems like they don’t want to pay for anything at all.

Exactly. And Chloe had life insurance which presumably would cover funeral expenses.

 

[al66pine]

Some Feet? Mere Feet? Some Months?

Isn’t everything some number of “feet” from every other thing in existence? I am a number of feet from *you* - wherever you are! How *many* feet is the question?....

@justbreathe sbm Thank you for pointing this out. And from the Complaint itself: "... glass panes, which were mere feet from the kids’ H2O Zone ..." bbm

Reminds me of a story (joke?) about a woman on the witness stand who gave her name, and when asked her age, replied "Twenty seven years and some months." When the attorney said, "How many months?" she responded "Well, one hundred twenty some months."

 

[Safeguard]

Here,
Let us all walk through FOTS deck 11.
Please take note as the guy filming walks right up to, and looks out of, one the windows!

 

[Safeguard]

He sat that baby on that hand rail for 30 seconds... While they gazed outside.

Even SA seems to find the 'color blind' lie cringey when he mumbles about it!

I don't know who they think is going to belive he thought there, "was glass there ".

 

[justbreathe]

I've always been more than a little suspicious about Grandpa not submitting to a breathalyzer and not making an official statement to PR authorities.

And that the parents went on like this after refusing to watch the video which showed what happened! Have they watched it yet? No words about Grandpa having their baby chill out balancing on a handrailing by a window 11 stories up?

It’s like the parents are cool with that. “Doesn’t *everyone* sit and stand their babies on handrails?” Sickening.

 

[SouthAussie]

Here,
Let us all walk through FOTS deck 11.
Please take note as the guy filming walks right up to, and looks out of, one the windows!

The media should be playing the latter part of this video with their news items.

There are not many people who would not see what danger he put Chloe in, if they saw that video. imo

 

[justbreathe]

What's next? I can see it now. . . cruise passenger sues RCCL for concussion sustained after banging head into window he thought was open. Sounds farcical at first, of course, but it wouldn't be out of the realm of Attorney W's type of clients. MOO

If only the had a sign, a sticker saying “Caution! This window is closed!” Something! My client would not have brain damage today.

Winkleman’s next suit.

 

[justbreathe]

What's next? I can see it now. . . cruise passenger sues RCCL for concussion sustained after banging head into window he thought was open. Sounds farcical at first, of course, but it wouldn't be out of the realm of Attorney W's type of clients. MOO

If only the had a sign, a sticker saying “Caution! This window is closed!” Something! My client would not have brain damage today.

Winkleman’s next suit.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...While investigating & taking photos, wearing a Sherlock Holmes deerstalker cap and smoking a briar pipe is optional. After all, this is an undercover operation. . Be safe and have a great time.

pic from amazon.

<respectfully snipped>

Thanks for the chuckle! It's welcome and appreciated in this intense discussion. Oviedo can smoke if she's got 'em, but she has to be in a designated smoking area

 

[justbreathe]

So given his history of ignoring several citations for not wearing a seatbelt, why does anyone think he would’ve been more careful regarding a sign saying the window was open?

He had already ignored the cruise safety instructions about not sitting, standing, crossing handrails and barriers.

 

[al66pine]

Open or Closed?

Here,
Let us all walk through FOTS deck 11.
Please take note as the guy filming walks right up to, and looks out of, one the windows!

@Safeguard thx for linking the vid.

At :30 sec mark, soooooo eeeeeeeasy to distinguish open windows and fixed windows.
Did this videographer have any reason to monkey around w tints, colors, saturation of these windows Doubtful imo. Now someone else taking vids or stills, maybe.

 

[justbreathe]

Who wants to go on a cruise with bats on the windows? Will they cage in the deck, and rooftop pools?

Just like the people who want Grand Canyon to be surrounded with childproof fencing, it would spoil it for everyone else.

All those closed and welded shut windows will go over *great* in a sinking situation.

 

[LietKynes]

Here,
Let us all walk through FOTS deck 11.
Please take note as the guy filming walks right up to, and looks out of, one the windows!

Thanks for re-posting this.^^^
It gives a chill to look out that window and to think of a baby being held there !

Tired of Winkleman pushing that the windows were "... feet from the play area..."
He is either delusional or of a criminal mind. ("criminal" -- as in he knows this is b.s., and decides the money is more important than the truth. Even if he hasn't been on this ship --he can see the same videos we have.)
Or both.
Take your pick.

 

[SouthAussie]

Open or Closed?

@Safeguard thx for linking the vid.

At :30 sec mark, soooooo eeeeeeeasy to distinguish open windows and fixed windows.
Did this videographer have any reason to monkey around w tints, colors, saturation of these windows Doubtful imo. Now someone else taking vids or stills, maybe.

Even closer up ... is there anyone who can't tell which window is open?



He definitely gravitated to an open window. With full knowledge that it was open. imo

 

[MassGuy]

Michael Winkleman, the family's attorney, said at a news conference the "singular goal" of the lawsuit is to raise awareness about the risk of falling from windows and "prevent this from ever happening to another child again."

Want to prevent this from happening again? Ban the grandfather from ever going on another cruise.

Easy solution.

The family whose toddler fell to her death from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship sues the company - CNN

 

[Safeguard]

The media should be playing the latter part of this video with their news items.

There are not many people who would not see what danger he put Chloe in, if they saw that video. imo

Right. It's insane! It makes me sick to even think about her sitting there.

I wonder if they all know and discuss how to get around the fact that he knew the window was open? Yikes!