IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

[neesaki]

He couldn't "find" glass because the window was open. If he put his hand and head out the window and didn't feel glass, what made him think it was there? Duh!

Sounds like he was looking for an open window.

 

[IceIce9]

I am personally not a fan of cruises (apologies to all of you who are, but I need “alone time” on my vacations, not time on a ship with thousands of other people)

But if I did like cruises I would immediately book several trips on Royal Caribbean to show my support.

 

[oviedo]

I am personally not a fan of cruises (apologies to all of you who are, but I need “alone time” on my vacations, not time on a ship with thousands of other people)

But if I did like cruises I would immediately book several trips on Royal Caribbean to show my support.

LOL - I have 3 coming up in the next 12 months - all on RCCL. It's my favorite - I find alot of places for alone time - especially in the chairs on Deck 5 (non smoking side). There is also a very secret sunbathing spot away from the pool that no one seems to know about but me - it's on most every ship I've been on. and never once has anyone else been there but us.

I will see how the supervision is in the pool area because I love that part - in my past cruises - I rarely see toddlers without a hovering parent. I have seen parents holding their children on their hip to look out the windows but never ever - not even once - have I seen anyone put a child on the handrail even with the window closed. I will definitely watch for that.

 

[Safeguard]

parents

Still catching up on overnight posts. I saw two reports on the case yesterday - a segment on Inside Edition and the report on NBC evening news. Both featured clips from the news conference. I will not watch the entire presser. This family and their attorney make me sick I hope RCCL puts up a good fight because this family refuses to accept any responsibility for what happened to Chloe at the hands of her "bestie" grandfather. I'm leaning more and more towards SA having been intoxicated. There's a reason that Chloe's parents did not want him to take a breathalyzer or make an official statement to PR authorities. I think they knew that Grandpa had been drinking and would incriminate himself with the breathalyzer and/or an interview with law enforcement personnel.

Well Thank You for saying it!

<modsnip>

I initially had more sympathy for Grandpa oddly, I don't think I could stand in his shoes for one second, and not off myself honestly. The very thought makes me squirm!

Initially he told the truth. He originally told PR officials that he was looking out the window and he accidentally dropped the child. <modsnip>

Enter the fam and the lawyers...
Suddenly the guys story changes.

If I were SA I would be willing to do or say anything they wanted me to. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't in shock, perhaps even medicated, and he is going to go along with anything that anyone suggests would help at this point.

I also strongly feel he might have had a drink or two, just because of the shady wording "he's not a drinker" rather than coming right out and saying "he had nothing to drink on this day".

If I recall correctly, they did say alcohol was not involved in this accident, but that's still a soft denial.

<modsnip>
And then the "color blind" excuse follows, to explain the inexplicable, not noticing an "open window" in plain sight, right in front of your face. Yeah,
I believe that about as much as I believe Prince Andrew had sweating disorder! Mmhmm.

These people are definitely circling the wagons, but it's terribly transparent. Everyone can see through the ruse as clearly as SA saw through that open window.

 

[Kakidoll]

Maybe the Wiegands should get a small settlement (half-million or so) as a good will gesture from RCCL since the tragedy happened on their ship, even if MW loses the case. Seems like the right thing to do for all their suffering that will never end, even though SA is really to blame.

NO. this is why people sue to begin with THEY cause issue upon themselves then want MONEY just to make them feel better from someone who should NOT have to pay. Morals, ethics whatever you want to call it should prevent anyone from suing for gain from someone who had NOTHING to do with the death/accident. Those small settlements are why people do stupid crap nowadays. <modsnip>

 

[SpanishInquisition]

For passenger ships people should look into regulations surrounding the Conception boat fire. That boat was in no way like a floating building - as Winkleman is equating ships with hotels - as Coast Guard passenger ship regulations are vastly different from residential buildings. The rated occupancy and design of the ship was crazy, but the ship passed inspection. There may be things that are done voluntarily by cruise ship companies and I would also think grandfathering of regs would come into play even going by the ASTM standards.

 

[IceIce9]

Maybe the Wiegands should get a small settlement (half-million or so) as a good will gesture from RCCL since the tragedy happened on their ship, even if MW loses the case. Seems like the right thing to do for all their suffering that will never end, even though SA is really to blame.

If someone got injured in your yard, through their own misconduct and no fault of yours, then they publicly blamed you and slandered you, would you give them a half million dollars as a good will gesture?

 

[sl222]

IMO Mrs. Wiegand's support of SA is more about her supporting her mother (wife of SA) than it has to do with SA himself, as I posted a way-long time back. Even when the CBS reporter asked her today if the family supports SA, her answer was a bit deflective and not wholly believable. She even says RCCL "played a major role in the death" which acknowledges that SA also played a role. She has to be angry at SA, but is suing for this small aspect that *if* those windows only opened 4 inches (as the attorneys are urging) then despite the actions of SA, her daughter might still be here. (However her daughter would have been dropped on the floor from chest height most likely anyway - they might have been rushing her to a hospital in PR .)

I too fully support RCCL in this; these windows are chest-high and only an unsupervised child could ever climb up and fall out; they would have to literally climb up on a table or chair and crawl over the railing and out of window 4 feet up. Has it ever happened - apparently not. The responsibility for supervision is on the family and even though most lawsuits get settled, in this case, I hope RCCL will oppose this one because of the extreme publicity the family and attorney is generating to make RCCL look at fault.

 

[LietKynes]

I'm confused about one point - this is a misdemeanor charge? I thought it was "negligent homicide."

Snipped for focus

Thanks for this image, @sl222 !

Of interest is the Spanish wording , but "Negligent Murder" is written in English.
Likely "Murder" in Spanish equates to "Homicide".
But still.

His expression in the photo looks like --- paraphrasing the way he might speak: ...
" Ohhhh, *advertiser censored*; they caught me on camera. I'm finished ! "

He is at best a stupid buffoon and at worst a killer.
He should be extremely grateful for a supportive daughter-in-law !

 

[sl222]

Good post here (see screenshot of the post & here is the link):
Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

I think the mother is having at least some misgivings about this lawsuit because she points to the fact that now Chloe's legacy is going to be this case (and publicity which the family is taking part in) and states that this bothers her.

Even if a person is a prosecutor, when a litigation attorney comes to you at the lowest point in your life, a point most people will never even know, and says it was someone else's fault; that you should fight this so no other children or families suffer - you want the death to mean something - you are vulnerable. All this media is only making things worse for the family (even though this is self-imposed at this point).

The family (SA and KW) keep making the point that their family is strong and staying together so IMO that's their sensitive issue. They are trying to "stay together" but they're devastated, empty, and probably still can't think straight because of this horrific loss. MOO.

 

[iluvmua]

I have NO sympathy for these people.

My sympathy lies with Chloe.

 

[neesaki]

Good post here (see screenshot of the post & here is the link):
Freedom of the Seas Fatality?

I think the mother is having at least some misgivings about this lawsuit because she points to the fact that now Chloe's legacy is going to be this case (and publicity which the family is taking part in) and states that this bothers her.

Even if a person is a prosecutor, when a litigation attorney comes to you at the lowest point in your life, a point most people will never even know, and says it was someone else's fault; that you should fight this so no other children or families suffer - you want the death to mean something - you are vulnerable. All this media is only making things worse for the family (even thought this is self-imposed at this point).

The family (SA and KW) keep making the point that their family is strong and staying together so IMO that's their sensitive issue. They are trying to "stay together" but they're devastated, empty, and probably still can't think straight because of this horrific loss. MOO.

Good point, her actions are incongruent with what she is saying .... because of this law suit, Chloe's legacy will no doubt be the history of court cases.

 

[justbreathe]

Would "Four Simple Words" Have Prevented This Death?

Daily Mail Dec 10 article quotes Winkleman as saying:
"Four simple words - 'caution these windows open' - and we wouldn't be talking about his [sic]..."

If cruiseline had posted easily seen warning signs "Caution: These Windows Open" would G'pa-SA have read and heeded those warnings?
Would he have been mindful of them, more so than warnings printed on visor and dashboard reminder light, both visible every time he sat in driver's seat & started the engine?
You know, the warning about lap belts & shoulder harnesses?

Yet later Winkleman seems to say those four simple words (the warning signs) wd/ not be enough, because some other cruise ships have windows that do not open more than ~4 in, have labels on operable windows, etc. so this ship should have had those same features..
Which is it? jmo

But...the words would be on the *window* that was already slid past the open void, right? Like, the words wouldn’t be just floating in the air in front of him? (But, yeah, even if they were he would have done whatever he wanted anyway a la seatbelts.)

 

[justbreathe]

Good point, her actions are incongruent with what she is saying .... because of this law suit, Chloe's legacy will no doubt be the history of court cases.

She just doesn’t want one of those cases to be her step- father charged and convicted of the negligent homicide of her daughter. If it was just her little civil case about “fixing the ship” she would be thrilled for that case to be Chloe’s legacy.

This family’s words and actions bother me.

 

[justbreathe]

Parents of Chloe Negligence Claim:

• Accusing RCCL of breaching industry safety standards by having large glass windows on their ships that could be slid wide open by passengers without warning.

• ‘Four simple words - caution these windows open - and we wouldn’t be talking about his. A sticker, a decal with the Royal Caribbean logo, anything, and Chloe is still with us.’

• It states that Chloe and her grandfather walked towards the ‘wall of glass’ that surrounds the ship’s 11th deck unaware that the center section comprises panes that can be slid open by ‘anyone’.

• The suit contends there was not a single warning sign, decal or safety notice to alert parents to the ‘hidden dangers’ that it argues are required by industry standards.

• Similar cruise ships including newer boats owned by Royal Caribbean employ devices such as window screens or guards that are not present on the 2004-built Freedom of the Seas, the filing further alleges.

Screens? Oh come on.

 

[Safeguard]

But...the words would be on the *window* that was already slid past the open void, right? Like, the words wouldn’t be just floating in the air in front of him? (But, yeah, even if they were he would have done whatever he wanted anyway a la seatbelts.)

Imo someone should have 'warned' the cruise line. This guy was an accident waiting to happen.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Screens? Oh come on.

I have never seen screens on any windows or doors on a cruise ship. I actually think that screens would be a nuisance as well as a safety issue. People would probably remove the screens and toss them overboard or into pools. Just think how easy it is to remove screens in your home doors and windows. Not to mention how many adults, children, and pets have pushed their way through screens. I've seen newer RCCL docked at Port Everglades (FL) and did not see screens on these vessels. <modsnip>

 

[justbreathe]

WATCH: Family of Granger child who fell to her death holds news conference

This morning we heard from the family of a Granger toddler who fell to her death from a cruise ship.

Chloe Wiegand's family announced a lawsuit against Royal Caribbean.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2630265240428708

Isn’t everything some number of “feet” from every other thing in existence? I am a number of feet from *you* - wherever you are! How *many* feet is the question?

<modsnip>

 

[LietKynes]

But...the words would be on the *window* that was already slid past the open void, right? Like, the words wouldn’t be just floating in the air in front of him? (But, yeah, even if they were he would have done whatever he wanted anyway a la seatbelts.)

bbm

hahaha... Maybe Winkleman and SA would like it if a caution sign could be floated in the air directly on the window ?
So even if a passenger was drinking or otherwise inhibited they couldn't fail to see it ?

Or lets go further... what about a special bracelet designed for some passengers that sounds an 'alarm' when they start to head too close to a window ?
It's as if the lawyer(s) for this family want every passenger to be "babysat" for their own safety.
Ridiculous.

 

[LietKynes]

She just doesn’t want one of those cases to be her step- father charged and convicted of the negligent homicide of her daughter. If it was just her little civil case about “fixing the ship” she would be thrilled for that case to be Chloe’s legacy.

This family’s words and actions bother me.

bbm

What about this idea ?
RCCL awards an unspecified amount to the family on the condition that they do not receive the money but it goes to improvements towards the ship ?
And that will be Chloe's legacy ?
The mom and SA should be satisfied with that.