IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

[borndem]

Welcome to Websleuths,
Chikkama !!​

 

[SouthAussie]

Lawyers, I suppose, coach you to never confess, in public, but they also tell you never to talk about your case or do tv interviews or appearances. IN THIS CASE, the lawyers and family of law people are doing the exact opposite. Running a public campaign in the media . ? sympathy garnering has backfired since the beginning and it continues. They better be carful, they may be tainting a jury so that may bite them but how do you back pedal such a proclamation " fix the boat". I have a feeling the lawyers are getting ideas from comments online. When the internet comments blew up with "windows are tinted" the next press conference "i'm colorblind" for example..... JMO

Yes, very possible that they are keeping an eye on public sentiment (online) about this case ... and are trying hard to swing that around in their favour.

They have not once addressed the safety rail that blatantly is the passenger protection and deterrent from getting too close to the windows. Merely calling it a 'handrail' when they mention Chloe being balanced on it by SA.
As if 'handrails' in front of windows are some kind of usual thing .... we all have them in our homes and businesses.

 

[Montrealaise]

I will never understand why SA had to lean over that far. I just cannot wrap my mind around this case.

I think he wanted to get a good view of everything that was happening on the dock.

 

[IceIce9]

It has to be frustrating for Winkleman and others to struggle to keep their story straight and keep coming up with more excuses to blame RCCL.

“If you tell the truth you don’t have to remember anything.”

Mark Twain

 

[neesaki]

I think he wanted to get a good view of everything that was happening on the dock.

The thought of this literally makes me cringe. :banghead: :cry:

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I think he wanted to get a good view of everything that was happening on the dock.

Yeeeaaaah, ok. Has charge of his (oh so precious bestie) granddaughter for TEN MINUTES, is supposed to be watching HER, not the scenery on the dock. Makes perfect sense. NOT.

 

[Seattle1]

And I think they need to start allowing windows which can be opened on high rise buildings. Makes me mad that I can't enjoy the fresh air.

Haaaa! As one that's spent half my life in high rise office buildings, I'd love it. State/international building code enforcers would tell you the code provides for adequate ventilation.

I know there are exceptions for historic buildings (which aren't very tall to begin with) but I don't think buildings can have operable windows more than 4" at 6 ft height from the ground and above. However, I think most high rise buildings opt for permanent windows because of water penetration issues. This is an issue that's bankrupted many builders under building warranty.

 

[al66pine]

Rail and Window Ledge Heights?

View attachment 220285
I agree he had to lean way over (consider his size when thinking of this effort) to have her in a position to drop her - I think the video will show him bending way over
IMO

@Ovedo Thx for the pix in your post 739.


^ Here the rail looks quite a bit higher than the window track than in in other pix.
Sitting on rail, if Chloe w heavy toddler head, had been leaning forward toward open window, seems G'pa would not have had to push/lift her much, for her to go thru window opening. Or I may be thinking about this wrong.
How much higher is the rail than the window ledge?
And how thick is the ship's wall?
So glad to know we'll have answers after your cruise. Or during?

 

[Seattle1]

Common sense tips published 1/17/19 for child safety onboard cruise ships--none include sitting a toddler on the guard rail.

Can a Child Fall Overboard on a Cruise Ship?

 

[Seattle1]

Those are designed to sweep water out of - there are several scattered about deck 11 on all the RCCL ships I’ve been on - in very choppy seas the pool water sloshes out and the water needs to be swept out from what I’ve seen - same with storms - it’s happened to me only a couple of times but that’s how I’ve seen them used - I will check it out next week on the ship I’m on (not FOTS)
JMO

Makes sense -- thank you!

 

[SouthAussie]

Common sense tips published 1/17/19 for child safety onboard cruise ships--none include sitting a toddler on the guard rail.

Can a Child Fall Overboard on a Cruise Ship?

I'm just not seeing how Winkleman thinks he can overcome all of the evidence and advice and common sense out there about windows and personal responsibility.

From your link:
- And that's because it's really, really hard to fall overboard without doing it intentionally or being extremely reckless.
- The guardrails on most cruise ships are at least 42-inches high, which makes them a challenge for any climbing toddler to scale.
- Close to half of people cruising, cruise with their children.

 

[IceIce9]

Common sense tips published 1/17/19 for child safety onboard cruise ships--none include sitting a toddler on the guard rail.

Can a Child Fall Overboard on a Cruise Ship?

I like this:


While grown-ups have been known to fall off cruise ships, and it's always a big news story when it happens, it's also an extremely rare occurrence. And that's because it's really, really hard to fall overboard without doing it intentionally or being extremely reckless.

 

[Area52]

I have a feeling the 18” may be the upper part of the window. The bottom opening would be less because of the tilt. MOO

I think the 18 inches is in reference to the distance from the safety rail to the window, not the size of the window. Please correct me if I'm wrong

 

[mickey2942]

I think the 18 inches is in reference to the distance from the safety rail to the window, not the size of the window. Please correct me if I'm wrong

Regardless, it is painfully obvious that if Chloe had not been placed on the guardrail, she would still be alive. And even worse, according to reports, SA held her between the guardrail and the open window. Doh!

Their attorney states that there is no sign on the guardrail, indicating that it is "not a seat for children". Really.

And that everyone should take SA's "word", that he did not realize that the window was open. Of course, no one accused of any crime in the history of the world has ever been deceptive.

 

[1&2&3]

Thanks for this picture^^^^. Wow, it looks like that handrail is really a guardrail to keep adults from leaning too close to the window. As we all can figure out that rail is for safety!

Each time a picture is shown, I get a different vision as to what really happened.

Today, I see Grandpa allowing Chloe to stand on this rail, with his one arm around her holding her, as they both lean forward to look out. GP looses his steady balance when Chloe moves in his arm, causing him to loose his hold on her.

This would explain his statement that he looked on the floor for her. I never understood that statement.

Does this sound like what you think happened??

 

[sl222]

The crusade that the family is on to defend SA makes it a lot harder for one of the parents to, one morning, wake up and feel an overwhelming determination to watch the recording of what happened, because they feel ready to see it AND they want to know exactly what really happened with their own eyes. I can see how hard it must be to reach that point because of the flood of questions and anger they know they would have once they actually stopped all these barriers and just wanted to know the truth. "Opinion only here."

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Thanks for this picture^^^^. Wow, it looks like that handrail is really a guardrail to keep adults from leaning too close to the window. As we all can figure out that rail is for safety!

Each time a picture is shown, I get a different vision as to what really happened.

Today, I see Grandpa allowing Chloe to stand on this rail, with his one arm around her holding her, as they both lean forward to look out. GP looses his steady balance when Chloe moves in his arm, causing him to loose his hold on her.

This would explain his statement that he looked on the floor for her. I never understood that statement.

Does this sound like what you think happened??

Maybe, but what explains the "act of games"?

 

[sl222]

Big difference in the word guardrail and just handrail. I have referred to it as a handrail many times but it is not a handrail; it's a safety rail and a guardrail. The sole purpose of the rail is to protect the passengers. The attorneys can try to minimize it all they want but it's THERE for the obvious reasons. RCCL is not negligent.

 

[neesaki]

Big difference in the word guardrail and just handrail. I have referred to it as a handrail many times but it is not a handrail; it's a safety rail and a guardrail. The sole purpose of the rail is to protect the passengers. The attorneys can try to minimize it all they want but it's THERE for the obvious reasons. RCCL is not negligent.

Kind of like when we get a drivers license, we have to learn all the symbols used on road signage, the ones that don’t have words.
The guard rail made the statement, stay back from the windows, no sign needed. Thus the term “guard rail”. I guess GP never learned this, or has comprehension difficulties? Maybe could help explain his poor driving record.

 

[neesaki]

Maybe, but what explains the "act of games"?

This was the first explanation we heard wasn’t it? Sounds like it came from an eye witness to me.