IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[neesaki]

Bumping this from Cocochanel, we don't want to see the thread get shut down. Thanks guys!

MOD NOTE:

THIS THREAD HAS SERIOUSLY VEERED OFF COURSE INTO UNSUBSTANTIATED SPECULATIONS THAT ARE NOT BASED ON FACTS THAT HAVE PUBLISHED IN MSM OR BY LE. ACCUSATIONS ABOUT DELIBERATE WRONGDOING BY THIS FAMILY ARE VIOLATIONS OF WEBSLEUTHS TERMS OF SERVICE AND WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. THIS THREAD IS CLOSED UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE FOR CLEANUP.

Faithfully,
CocoChanel
Moderator

 

[Catalova]

Part of the text from this article with video....
Video shows grandfather drop toddler to her death from ship | Daily Mail Online

It states "Footage of the tragedy seen by DailyMail.com shows the moment Chloe fell, with Anello slumping to his knees and her mother recoiling in shock as she collapsed to the ground."

I thought the mother of Chloe was somewhere else on the ship and that's why grandpa was watching the little girl.... weird. :/

 

[LietKynes]

I got the impression he was looking around to see if anyone down there was watching. jmo

Agreed.
The video showed him leaning way out and twisting on his stomach.
Very odd as it took him a while to 'drop to the floor' in "anguish".
Imo.

 

[LietKynes]

Part of the text from this article with video....
Video shows grandfather drop toddler to her death from ship | Daily Mail Online

It states "Footage of the tragedy seen by DailyMail.com shows the moment Chloe fell, with Anello slumping to his knees and her mother recoiling in shock as she collapsed to the ground."

I thought the mother of Chloe was somewhere else on the ship and that's why grandpa was watching the little girl.... weird. :/

^^^ Considering the source ; you can take this article with a grain of salt.

Yes, you're right, the mother was away somewhere else on a ship-related errand and was not in the video.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Part of the text from this article with video....
Video shows grandfather drop toddler to her death from ship | Daily Mail Online

It states "Footage of the tragedy seen by DailyMail.com shows the moment Chloe fell, with Anello slumping to his knees and her mother recoiling in shock as she collapsed to the ground."

I thought the mother of Chloe was somewhere else on the ship and that's why grandpa was watching the little girl.... weird. :/

In the first interview the parents did, it was stated that she was elsewhere at the time it happened. Parents of toddler who died on cruise ship share ‘unfathomable’ grief

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Agreed.
The video showed him leaning way out and twisting on his stomach.
Very odd as it took him a while to 'drop to the floor' in "anguish".
Imo.

[URL=https://imageshack.com/i/pnnKyZY8j][/URL]

 

[oviedo]

It’s really quite unbelievable- I’m here
Won’t let me upload the pictures

 

[al66pine]

G'pa. From Sun to Shade, to Open Window? For Breeze Or?

... gone to the open window because he was feeling very hot, and looking for a cool breeze....squatted down against that column ...

@drama_farmer Yes, yes, yes. All/virtually all of the H20 Zone proper is exposed to the sun, while the outer deck's ceiling shades many lounge chairs & tables. Even being in the Zone for in the sun ~ 88F* about 10 min.** could have made him feel overheated.
Side-view vid shows Chloe walking out of Zone, toward 'glass wall,' & G'pa following. She stopped at column, where he talked w her. What did he or she say?
Side-view vid shows him squatting against column, getting up, walking toward glass wall (stopping, then imo) moving to open window where he immediately stuck his head out.
To catch ~ 12 mph*** breeze? Our cruising buddies here posted that there is almost always a breeze, and link below supports that.

Is there another reason G'pa went to the open window? Presumably the view thru closed windows is same as thru open window.

---------------------------------------
* Daily high temperatures ~ 88°F, rarely falling below 86°F or exceeding 91°F.
Average Weather in July in San Juan, Puerto Rico - Weather Spark
** Per Complaint, page 3, from ~ 3:50pm (paragraph 12) to ~4:00pm (paragraph 14).
*** The average hourly wind speed in San Juan is essentially constant during July, remaining within 0.2 miles per hour of 12.4 miles per hour throughout.
Average Weather in July in San Juan, Puerto Rico - Weather Spark

 

[sl222]

I know I had posted this in the original thread that was deleted. I’ve worked occasionally on the medic crew at a large professional sporting venue. I only work on days when events are being held, so maybe 20 days a year average.

This sporting venue’s owner is well known for having “deep pockets.” In the 20 years I have worked there I have seen a huge shift in how lawsuits are handled.

The lawsuits resulted mostly from slips and falls, and usually involved someone who had been drinking or horsing around. Most injuries were very, very minor. Someone would sue because they bruised their knee after slipping in the beer that they spilled themselves. I could go on listing examples but most were in that category.

Up until maybe 7 or 8 years ago nearly all lawsuits had been settled with a small token amount. This was basically thought of as a cost of doing business, settling nuisance lawsuits for $3,000 - $10,000 each, just to make them go away.

Well it became known that people were getting quick payouts for their injuries and the lawsuits increased greatly. So the owner of the venue decided to fight back and stopped paying anything out as settlement, but instead took every case to court. Most cases were dropped by the injured party after they didn’t get the quick settlement that they had expected.

Several cases that I had been involved with were fans who claimed to have fallen and injured their backs. They sued, and when the attorney for the venue investigated it was found that each of these people had prior back issues that required surgery and they didn’t have insurance. So they went to “deep pockets” venue to “slip and fall” so they could sue and “deep pockets” would have to pay for their surgery.

I am very happy that this venue no longer pays to settle frivolous lawsuits. I could seriously write a book on the crazy stuff people have sued this venue for.

I hope this isn’t too off topic, I just wanted to mention this as an example of a company that no longer pays settlement on lawsuits when they have no responsibility for injury.

Thank you for this. I think it makes a great point about what considerations go into a company's decision to settle. Winkleman said that his firm's sole business is suing cruise lines.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...Is there another reason G'pa went to the open window? Presumably the view thru closed windows is same as thru open windo...

<respectfully snipped> If SA was smoking, he might have decided to toss his cigarette out the open window. Definitely a no-no on a cruise ship, and anyone with an ounce of common sense, not to mention consideration for their fellow passengers, knows that you do not ever toss any type of incendiary material overboard!

 

[oviedo]

The actual space between the railing and the open window is huge (forgot the tape measure but it’s 18”) there is no way you can lift something out of the window - I’m staring at our open one) without a huge effort IMO - you know we’ve discussed this for months but seeing it again aboard RCCL (not Freedom but similar) I’m shocked beyond anything (I’ve been on lots of cruises) that this even happened - I can’t convey to all of you how utterly shocked I am that she’s gone in this manner - I will try and figure out the sizing to upload in the meantime - but I’m stunned -as well all should be - I was behind a little one her age - no way this should ever have happened - let me repeat this - no way - LE needs to reconsider the charges. It’s way more serious - I’m aghast at what he did to her
JMO

 

[oviedo]

Forgot to mention - the breeze? It’s like having a fan blowing straight at your face - I’m on a cabana sofa and it’s blowing my hair all over - he knew the window was open IMO totally guilty of being dangerous with a baby

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The actual space between the railing and the open window is huge (forgot the tape measure but it’s 18”) there is no way you can lift something out of the window - I’m staring at our open one) without a huge effort IMO - you know we’ve discussed this for months but seeing it again aboard RCCL (not Freedom but similar) I’m shocked beyond anything (I’ve been on lots of cruises) that this even happened - I can’t convey to all of you how utterly shocked I am that she’s gone in this manner - I will try and figure out the sizing to upload in the meantime - but I’m stunned -as well all should be - I was behind a little one her age - no way this should ever have happened - let me repeat this - no way - LE needs to reconsider the charges. It’s way more serious - I’m aghast at what he did to her
JMO

Thanks for checking in. Bon Voyage!

 

[Really?]

Forgot to mention - the breeze? It’s like having a fan blowing straight at your face - I’m on a cabana sofa and it’s blowing my hair all over - he knew the window was open IMO totally guilty of being dangerous with a baby

So you are now our “ boots on the ground “. Well done. Enjoy.

 

[al66pine]

Where Was Chloe's Mother?

In the first interview the parents did, it was stated that she was elsewhere at the time it happened.

Parents of toddler who died on cruise ship share ‘unfathomable’ grief

@SaguaroSpirit I remember reading/hearing something re 'elsewhere' but just now in re-watching ^ vid w captions, I missed any direct quote saying Mom was 'elsewhere.'
Mom said son said ~if I had been there, maybe I could have saved her. <-- my paraphrasing.
Imo, 'there' could have been ten feet closer to Sam at window or could have been on another deck.

~2:30 in vid, she said ~ I saw Sam by window. Someone for cruiseline tried to stop me. I did not know there was a window. Not an exact quote.

IDK if her exact location matters and not criticizing her absence.

 

[Medstudies]

The actual space between the railing and the open window is huge (forgot the tape measure but it’s 18”) there is no way you can lift something out of the window - I’m staring at our open one) without a huge effort IMO - you know we’ve discussed this for months but seeing it again aboard RCCL (not Freedom but similar) I’m shocked beyond anything (I’ve been on lots of cruises) that this even happened - I can’t convey to all of you how utterly shocked I am that she’s gone in this manner - I will try and figure out the sizing to upload in the meantime - but I’m stunned -as well all should be - I was behind a little one her age - no way this should ever have happened - let me repeat this - no way - LE needs to reconsider the charges. It’s way more serious - I’m aghast at what he did to her
JMO

RBBM:
I’m just going to let this do all the talking.
bon voyage and thanks for your post

 

[JulieBEMT]

I'm new to this group, but have been following this case from the start. Having been on this ship and her sisters ships many times, I never believed the "I thought there was glass" defense for even a second. It's nearly impossible to be near these windows and not know which ones are open. I got a really bad taste when they began (and continued) to call this a "children's play area." Anyone who has been on these ships knows this is an outright lie. Today I finally saw the ship surveillance video. It clearly shows him leaning out of the window before picking the baby up and holding her out the window.

If only he would say "I thought I could hold her, and I was wrong. It was a huge mistake on my part," I think there would be a lot of empathy for him and the family. However, the continued declarations that the ship is at fault, and the lawsuit has eroded that empathy. I honestly could not believe that Winkleman could stand in front of the media and say, with a straight face, that railings should have signs on them that say 'no sitting,' or 'no standing!'

As for the lawsuit, nobody should ever be rewarded for dropping a child to her death! If they were to get a sizable settlement, can you imagine what deranged people would do for their own payday going forward?

 

[IceIce9]

For being in “a children’s play area” it is odd that you see so many adults and no other children in the video.

 

[al66pine]

Wind 12 mph. Direction, from the East?

Forgot to mention - the breeze? It’s like having a fan blowing straight at your face - I’m on a cabana sofa and it’s blowing my hair all over - he knew the window was open IMO totally guilty of being dangerous with a baby

@oviedo Pls pardon interruption to your vacay, but do you know the orientation of ship at dock, when you boarded? From google earth images, I have the impression while at dock, a gi-norrrrmous ship like Frdm/Seas has bow pointed north at dock.
If so, anyone at starboard window would mos' def' feel ~ 12 mph breeze coming from 90 degrees east, coming straight at them. Whoops, did we figure out for sure G'pa was on starboard side?

Or ask crew member (not sure who specifically) if Frdm/Seas always docks at north orientation?.

After ^ then back to sofa for drinks w umbrellas. Cheers & enjoy.
----------------------------------------
* The average hourly wind speed in San Juan is essentially constant during July, remaining within 0.2 miles per hour of 12.4 miles per hour throughout.
** The hourly average wind direction in San Juan throughout July is predominantly from the east, with a peak proportion of 99% on July 15.
Average Weather in July in San Juan, Puerto Rico - Weather Spark

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I'm new to this group, but have been following this case from the start. Having been on this ship and her sisters ships many times, I never believed the "I thought there was glass" defense for even a second. It's nearly impossible to be near these windows and not know which ones are open. I got a really bad taste when they began (and continued) to call this a "children's play area." Anyone who has been on these ships knows this is an outright lie. Today I finally saw the ship surveillance video. It clearly shows him leaning out of the window before picking the baby up and holding her out the window.

If only he would say "I thought I could hold her, and I was wrong. It was a huge mistake on my part," I think there would be a lot of empathy for him and the family. However, the continued declarations that the ship is at fault, and the lawsuit has eroded that empathy. I honestly could not believe that Winkleman could stand in front of the media and say, with a straight face, that railings should have signs on them that say 'no sitting,' or 'no standing!'

As for the lawsuit, nobody should ever be rewarded for dropping a child to her death! If they were to get a sizable settlement, can you imagine what deranged people would do for their own payday going forward?

Welcome to Websleuths! Thanks for your post and impressions of the case.