IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[Safeguard]

Under stress his lies flowed easily.
I think he’s well skilled at it.

IMO.

He doesn't seem to lie very well at all to me. No one believes him.

I think he told the truth under the pressure of the moment, when first questioned. He had her looking outside and he dropped her. And that's exactly what he said.

He actually looked like he was going to be sick during the news interview to me.

I don't believe he was the originator of the lie about the glass, but I'm sure he was quite open to being convinced.

"Maybe you didn't realize there was an opening there Sam?"

(Think of the detectives in the Chris watts case, "I Think Shan’ann did something to those girls, it wasn't your fault Chris!")

SA even said during the news broadcast, at first he blamed himself, but now he blames the ship. "I just want them to fix the ship!"

So... who convinced him that the higher purpose was to fix the ship and deny his role? Someone did. I think that 'someone' is the same guy who talks in circles and is a master of spin.

Hopefully we find out more during the trial. There were witnesses after all.

 

[jeena]

I looked at the youtube videos, one video is narrated by Charlton, who explains what SA did while narrating the behind view. He points out some things I missed while viewing it. Charlton seems to be on SA's side, but you don't have to agree with his opinions to view the video. He also shows the side view. I don't know how to post links on a tablet, sorry.

 

[IceIce9]

Their silence is very loud.

DBM

 

[Safeguard]

I wonder why he was alone with Chloe, where was his wife?

Why wouldn't he be? There are a ton of possible things his wife could have busy doing; it was reported the rest of the family were in the dining area, SA was asked by Chloe's mom, to look after her so she could attend to a issue that arose.

Why must his wife also need to go with him?

Although it's a pity, she didn't, but a single adult looking after a single child, (one on one ratio) is not unusual.

 

[IceIce9]

Why wouldn't he be? There a are a ton of possible things his wife could have busy doing; it was reported the rest of the family were in the dining area, SA was asked by Chloe's mom, to look after her so she could attend to a issue that arose.

Why must his wife also need to go with him?

Although it's a pity, she didn't, but a single adult looking after a single child, (one on one ratio) is not unusual.

Was he responsible enough to care for a toddler on his own? He wasn’t even holding her hand or keeping her close, as observed on the video.

 

[Safeguard]

Was he responsible enough to care for a toddler on his own? He wasn’t even holding her hand or keeping her close, as observed on the video.

Really? Where could she have gone in that entirely closed area. Her toddling about looked perfectly fine to me. He was right behind her, watching her every move. Even when he looked out the window, he did so for 8 seconds, and she was right there beside him.

Sadly it was his movement that needed supervision.

 

[jeena]

Why wouldn't he be? There a are a ton of possible things his wife could have busy doing; it was reported the rest of the family were in the dining area, SA was asked by Chloe's mom, to look after her so she could attend to a issue that arose.

Why must his wife also need to go with him?

Although it's a pity, she didn't, but a single adult looking after a single child, (one on one ratio) is not unusual.

My problem with a male looking after a female toddler is changing CW's diaper if necessary. Does SA go to the men's room or ladies room with CW, both awkward for obvious reasons, or leave her with a loaded diaper? Posters reported that FOS has no changing stations, if that's true.
I have kind of the same problem with my 90 yr old Mom. Her granddaughter wanted Mom to go to her high school graduation and sit on bleacher seats (mom needs assistance with climbing and walking). My brother said he would take care of Mom while she was there, but what if Mom had to use the rest room. Would he take her in the men's room or ladies room? What if he was taking pictures of the ceremony and left Mom for a while and she had to use the rest room then? I wouldn't go to the graduation because I despise my brother's ex-wife, Mom doesn't like her either, so she really didn't want to go, but I got blamed for ruining my niece's graduation since I said Mom wouldn't attend. Needless to say, we haven't spoken to my brother or his family in 5 years, too many issues with them.

 

[Safeguard]

One assumes SA had a cell phone on him. His family members were just moments away. If Chloe needed assistance it would be easy to attain imo.

*Good luck with all that.

 

[IceIce9]

Really? Where could she have gone in that entirely closed area. Her toddling about looked perfectly fine to me. He was right behind her, watching her every move. Even when he looked out the window, he did so for 8 seconds, and she was right there beside him.

Sadly it was his movement that needed supervision.

It wasn’t a playroom. There were quite a few adults walking around with drinks and possibly cigarettes. Holding the hand of a toddler would have been appropriate.

Why didn’t he stay in the water play area?

 

[mickey2942]

If SA has a trial, which would be the 2nd stupidest thing he ever did, who would be his defense witness list?

1. Doctor, verifying SA "color blindness". (Good luck finding one who is credible on that).
2. His wife?
3. Chloe's Mother?
4. Chloe's Father?

5. SA testifying on his own behalf? (Don't do it!).

Honestly, even if the Wiegand's supported SA prior to watching the video, I don't see how they could after watching the video. They must have seen it by now, unless they are so far into denial on this, they still think that the actions are completely normal.

How would a jury react to Chloe's parents supporting SA?

 

[jeena]

I looked at the youtube videos, one video is narrated by Charlton, who explains what SA did while narrating the behind view. He points out some things I missed while viewing it. Charlton seems to be on SA's side, but you don't have to agree with his opinions to view the video. He also shows the side view. I don't know how to post links on a tablet, sorry.

I looked at the youtube videos, one video is narrated by Charlton, who explains what SA did while narrating the behind view. He points out some things I missed while viewing it. Charlton seems to be on SA's side, but you don't have to agree with his opinions to view the video. He also shows the side view. I don't know how to post links on a tablet, sorry.

In the Charlton behind video, it's obvious CW is standing on the railing at one point, so why wouldn't we see that on the side view video? Is the white window panel wide enough to hide her from view?

 

[jeena]

One assumes SA had a cell phone on him. His family members were just moments away. If Chloe needed assistance it would be easy to attain imo.

*Good luck with all that.

Good point. I forgot cell phones work on cruise liners. The last time I took a cruise, there were no cell phones, lol.

 

[Montrealaise]

Yes, agree.

I think mum likely thought that Chloe would splash in those pretty fountains in her non-slip shoes and appropriate sunhat while she was away for a short while. And that SA would just stand close by and watch over Chloe while she splashed and enjoyed.

But that's not how it turned out. She didn't think that SA would let Chloe wander and would just follow her around. Likely because she wouldn't do that herself. It didn't cross her mind that she was leaving her little girl in peril. And now she feels a measure of responsibility herself.

She was probably thinking she'd be gone for just a few minutes and (subconsciously) what could possibly go wrong in a few minutes?

 

[Montrealaise]

I see a difference between planned and intentional. I am not saying that he planned it OR intended it. (I don't think he plotted this.) But what I did say was that it looks intentional. It looks like in the moments at the window, he knowingly took actions that would lead to her death. It is possible for someone to play the clown and make it look like an accident. The prosecutors had to explore it; they ruled that out.

The reason I say it looks intentional is basically "what else would he expect to happen if he holds a child outside of a ship, plays a game of some kind, swaying her, holding her loosely, and lets go of her?"

People do kill for no reason. I still won't go so far as to say I think he is one of them. But his actions don't line up with the positive things I assume about him not having the slightest intention for anything horrible to happen. It's a little hard to put this into words, it's my opinion.

"What else would be expect to happen....". Here's the thing: people who are reckless and irresponsible, who take risks others wouldn't, don't believe that anything bad will ever happen to them. It's just not recklessness, it's also over-confidence and an inflated sense of their own abilities.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

She was probably thinking she'd be gone for just a few minutes and (subconsciously) what could possibly go wrong in a few minutes?

Mothers with toddlers usually know the answer to that.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Lawsuit or not, I agree these parents are tortured every single day by the "what ifs" and "if only" and they can't help but blame themselves even though this was not their fault. It's especially cruel IMO because I get the very strong impression that these two parents are loving, adoring, and extremely responsible parents who love being parents! It's not just losing their daughter, it's also all that they have to go through for years, if not for life. And worse, what their son has to go through. I do think the lawsuit is a way of dealing with this by parents in grief, but surely when they saw the videos they were horrified and they have to have tremendous rage against SA. They are keeping that private which is understandable but you know it has to be there...

<snipped> AW isn't the 10-year-old boy's father. In Chloe's obituary, he has a different last name. He is KW's son from a previous relationship.

...brother, Wyatt Amm...

View Chloe Wiegand's Obituary on kpcnews.com and share memories

 

[Chikkamma]

It’s sad because I used to respect him, but I think CBS’s David Begnaud outright lied about what was on the video. Perhaps Winkleman made him sign something that would limit what he says about the video… I don’t know. But Begnaud was not honest about how damning it was- and his defensive response after the video leak proved this.

 

[Chikkamma]

<snipped> AW isn't the 10-year-old boy's father. In Chloe's obituary, he has a different last name. He is KW's son from a previous relationship.

...brother, Wyatt Amm...

View Chloe Wiegand's Obituary on kpcnews.com and share memories

Interesting that there was no mention of SA in her obituary. In fact, “Her best friend was her dog, Penny Rosabell, with whom she surreptitiously shared many snacks and kisses.” I thought Chloe was SA’s best friend?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

If SA has a trial, which would be the 2nd stupidest thing he ever did, who would be his defense witness list?

1. Doctor, verifying SA "color blindness". (Good luck finding one who is credible on that).
2. His wife?
3. Chloe's Mother?
4. Chloe's Father?

5. SA testifying on his own behalf? (Don't do it!)...

<snipped>

6. SA's employer or immediate supervisor?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Interesting that there was no mention of SA in her obituary. In fact, “Her best friend was her dog, Penny Rosabell, with whom she surreptitiously shared many snacks and kisses.” I thought Chloe was SA’s best friend?

He's there: maternal grandparents, Salvatore and Patti Anello, of Niles, Michigan.

View Chloe Wiegand's Obituary on kpcnews.com and share memories