IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[1&2&3]

You missed it. It's been mentioned.

Thank you.

 

[Chikkamma]

The issues is not about what you believe. He's color blind, it's verifiable, but I don't think it factors in to being able to distinguish "Open" from "Closed".

While being colorblind is verifiable, SA’s colorblindness has not yet been verified. The claim that SA is colorblind came from SA and the “family attorney” (quote from the linked video) and we know what an honest guy he is.

I will be convinced SA is colorblind when I see pre-existing (i.e. dating back before the incident) medical documentation of it with my own eyes. I just can’t take Winkleman’s or David Begnaud’s word for it.

The exact statement Begnaud makes in the video is “the family attorney, after the interview, showed us medical records that appears to support Mr. Anello’s claim...”. Notice how Begnaud did NOT say “Winkleman showed us SA’s medical records from 10 years ago proving he had been diagnosed by an M.D. with colorblindness”.

 

[Safeguard]

While being colorblind is verifiable, SA’s colorblindness has not yet been verified. The claim that SA is colorblind came from the “family attorney” and we know what an honest guy he is.

I will be convinced SA is colorblind when I see PRE-EXISTING (i.e. dating back before the incident) medical documentation of it. So far, we have not seen it and I can’t just take Winkleman’s word.

I'm pretty confident they verified that, before making the claim public.

 

[SouthAussie]

I disagree. If SA is colorblind--and I believe he is--he would have assumed glass would be in all the windows because why would a ship that has open air just a few feet away need to put windows that had no glass? The lower windows don't open. The upper windows don't open. The windows in passenger state rooms don't open.

JMO

Colour blind people still see colour. They just don't see the same colour as a 'normal-visioned' person. We have shown that via previous links about colour blindness.

It is really quite obvious that the closed windows have colour (whichever colour the person sees) and the open windows have no colour.

Especially as Winkleman is saying 'just one window was open in a wall of glass'. That open window and its clear appearance would have stood out like a sore thumb, among the other windows of colour.

It is also obvious which windows are open due to the fact that they do not slide open all the way.

 

[MyBelle]

I'm still waiting for verification that he was offered an actual deal.

I would expect a statement from the prosecution saying something like "we offered the defendant a VERY generous plea deal but he has turned it down. So we are ready to take the case to trial and seek the maximum penalty."

I've seen nothing like that at all. In fact what I have seen appears to dispute that he was offered a deal. Anyone else seen something I haven't?

His attorney told the media he was offered a deal and it isn't in writing. Now that PR decided to leak the video after the parents specifically said they had seen the video and didn't want it published in order to protect their son from it, it got leaked to further humiliate the parents because they filed a civil lawsuit.

JMO

Grandfather offered plea deal in girl's cruise ship death as Puerto Rico TV show airs video

 

[MsFacetious]

I know what his attorney said.

 

[MyBelle]

Yes! I've mentioned that before. Totally must have been outside the window.
There's no way to see something through a window, that's not outside!

I don't know if I'd say, "through" but he LEANS out far enough for me to feel pretty damn certain he knows that window is open. That's also the only reason to pick that window to put that baby up to to she can look OUT.

People don't look out windows, they look through windows. If he is colorblind, all of the windows are going to look the same to him.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

People don't look out windows, they look through windows. If he is colorblind, all of the windows are going to look the same to him.

JMO

No. He would have just seen a different colour for the closed windows. And clearness for the open window.

 

[Chikkamma]

I'm pretty confident they verified that, before making the claim public.

SA and Winkleman have made several false public claims. They publicly claimed that SA didn’t know the window was open. They publicly claimed that the reason SA lifted Chloe up was because she couldn’t reach the lower level window (which literally anyone, especially children, can easily reach).

I have no idea why they are making public claims that could be easily revealed in court to be lies, but they are doing it nonetheless. Colorblindness might be another one of them.

 

[mickey2942]

The issues is not about what you believe. He's color blind, it's verifiable, but I don't think it factors in to being able to distinguish "Open" from "Closed".

I have not seen any evidence of SA's color blindness, only verbal reports from Winkleman.

 

[Lawsmygame2]

People don't look out windows, they look through windows. If he is colorblind, all of the windows are going to look the same to him.

JMO

Exactly. All the WINDOWS look the same but if there is no window, it would look different.

 

[MyBelle]

Colour blind people still see colour. They just don't see the same colour as a 'normal-visioned' person. We have shown that via previous links about colour blindness.

It is really quite obvious that the closed windows have colour (whichever colour the person sees) and the open windows have no colour.

Especially as Winkleman is saying 'just one window was open in a wall of glass'. That open window and its clear appearance would have stood out like a sore thumb, among the other windows of colour.

It is also obvious which windows are open due to the fact that they do not slide open all the way.

View attachment 222915 View attachment 222917 View attachment 222918

I'm confident that as the grandfather approached that wall of windows, his attention was totally on the child ahead of him rather than the color of the windows.

Many color blind people do not see certain colors at all, which can be dangerous and why our military tests all recruits for it.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Exactly. All the WINDOWS look the same but if there is no window, it would look different.

A window is transparent. The view through it wouldn't change.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

The issues is not about what you believe. He's color blind, it's verifiable, but I don't think it factors in to being able to distinguish "Open" from "Closed".

Sure it would. It's no different than wearing sunglasses. They cut the glare of the sun but don't alter what you see through them.

JMO

 

[tara83]

I can't believe that after seeing the video some are still saying he didn't know the window was open.My God he stuck his head out.

 

[al66pine]

Possible Defense Witnesses for SA? Testifying to What?

If SA has a trial, which would be the 2nd stupidest thing he ever did, who would be his defense witness list?
1. Doctor, verifying SA "color blindness". (Good luck finding one who is credible on that).
2. His wife?
3. Chloe's Mother?
4. Chloe's Father?
5. SA testifying on his own behalf? (Don't do it!).
...

@mickey2942
Aside from dr. re colorblindness & SA in own defense, what can SA’s wife, AW, & KSW say?

Imo they cannot testify re SA's actions & stmts while SA 'supervised' C - say, 10 - 30 - 45 min's - before SA dropped Chloe, because presumably SA's wife, KSW, and AW were not there in H2O Zone or close to Squeeze. Presumably the other Gr'parents were not there either.

Possibly could testify re SA's actions & stmts after he dropped her; imo could be relevant and admissible as part of the sentencing. But IDK how that couId be admissible to negate any element of the crime, IOW to prevent his conviction.

 

[Lawsmygame2]

A window is transparent. The view through it wouldn't change.

JMO

Not in the case of the ship’s windows. They are tinted. So even if he couldn’t see the actual color that people who are not colorblind see, he does see “shades.” Therefore if all closed windows are tinted and an open window is not, he would see a difference. JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I think SA is in a no-win position!

If he takes the plea deal, which requires him to plead guilty, then Chloe’s parents, his step daughter and son-in-law, loose their suit.

This means he caused them to loose their daughter and the mega bucks the parents are anticipating RCCL settling for.

On the other hand, if he goes to trial, anticipation is he will be found guilty and serve three years in jail.

IMO, SA is being pressured to not take the plea deal (if one has been offered). I hate to say this, however, I think the mother of Chloe, being a lawyer herself, is seeing the $$$ signs. RCCL may wait till they get to the courthouse on trial date, but KW thinks they will come up with money. JMO.

I consider the mother is a victim in this case. I'm sure not getting the impression the grieving mother to be greedy. If SA pleads guilty, it will have no bearing on their wrongful death lawsuit, which will be heard in U.S. Federal Court, not in P.R.

I doubt the parents settle their lawsuit. I think this publicity stunt of PR releasing the video is going to cause them to dig in their heels. RCCL should have followed the lead of Disney, who settled with the parents of Lane Graves BEFORE they filed a lawsuit, which they clearly would have won.

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I
Many color blind people do not see certain colors at all, which can be dangerous and why our military tests all recruits for it.

JMO

Exactly. They see a different colour.
Instead of purple they might see blue, instead of green they might see brown, instead of orange they might see pink ... but they still see a colour.
They do not see 'clear' instead of a colour.

SA would have seen the difference between a coloured window and a clear (open) window.

Colour Blindness - Colour Blind Awareness

 

[MyBelle]

While being colorblind is verifiable, SA’s colorblindness has not yet been verified. The claim that SA is colorblind came from SA and the “family attorney” (quote from the linked video) and we know what an honest guy he is.

I will be convinced SA is colorblind when I see pre-existing (i.e. dating back before the incident) medical documentation of it with my own eyes. I just can’t take Winkleman’s or David Begnaud’s word for it.

The exact statement Begnaud makes in the video is “the family attorney, after the interview, showed us medical records that appears to support Mr. Anello’s claim...”. Notice how Begnaud did NOT say “Winkleman showed us SA’s medical records from 10 years ago listing the diagnosis of colorblindness”.

I don't understand what point you are trying to make. A person is color blind at birth so when SA was diagnosed is irrelevant. It really doesn't matter when Begnaud was shown the medical records. Begnaud obviously believes SA is color blind. Begnaud has no reason to lie about it.

JMO