IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[TDoc72]

RSBM

This point #3 is so very true, and nothing I have considered yet.

Whether or not a person can successfully 'rescue' a loved one, it is very usual for them to try. Which is why people get burned entering fire-engulfed buildings trying to save a loved one, and people drown trying to save their loved ones who have fallen into rough waters.

Maybe he did watch the poor little mite fall all the way down, and saw exactly how she ended up. Knew that it was all over for this sweet little girl.

I would think when she fell, he did try to make a grab at her. But since he was most likely already overextending his arms and upper body over the guardrail, there was probably no room to move any more forward.

Does that even make sense? How could he look for her on the floor and then see her fall? She would have already been on the ground by then. He is a lying liar who lies, IMHO.

Remember this all happened very quickly. (The falling part, not the holding over the rail part.) I could see in a split nano-second, thinking and hoping maybe she just fell down on the floor, but then realizing she fell out of the ship. So it makes some sense to me.

 

[neesaki]

How do you know he was watching the window?!

I've watched that footage over and over and I don't see that!

Chloe is the one who made a beeline for the window.

I saw SA make a beeline for the window, he headed straight for it. And didn’t even look down at Chloe, until after he stuck his entire head and neck out of it and looked around. Chloe was somewhere to the right of that open window (why would she care about an open window, it was far above her head)... as that’s where he picked her up from and within seconds, unbelievably, inconceivably, he proceeded to put her out, then drop her to her death. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[BeachSky]

Newer La Comay episode that shows extended footage of what happened (from the side view) after SA’s collapse to the floor:

Kobbo Santarrosa (the puppet) points out a couple of things he didn’t mention in the first episode. Will list them in a separate post.

beginning at the 42:42 mark
When he lifts her up she is facing forward, her face to the outside.
This is very clear IMO because the back of her white hat is against him.

MOO

 

[Chikkamma]

How do you know he was watching the window?!

I've watched that footage over and over and I don't see that!

Chloe is the one who made a beeline for the window.

When SA squats down by the pillar he turns his head at one point and looks at the man at the window. He’s crouched down and turns his head left to look at the guy.

 

[BeachSky]

bbm

"Ain't" nothing wrong with that boat....
If RCCL starts welding windows shut that will spoil the view and fresh breeze for future passengers.
And making the windows only open 4 inches or so won't get the passengers much air or view.

Those ships are designed to prevent people from accidentally toppling overboard.
The other 'victim' Winkleman is representing actually climbed over a high railing on the balcony and flung herself forward and overboard.
She is lucky to be alive.

The cruise lines should ban together, if nothing but to shut this “ambulance chaser” down.
Ka-boom!


MOO

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

His defense attorney seems to be competent and experienced, so I would be astonished if he OK'd the interviews. Which leaves two possibilities: SA agreed to do the interviews without telling his lawyer; or he told his lawyer, who strongly advised against doing them, yet SA decided that he knew better and would disregard his lawyer's advice. With everything we know about SA, I'm leaning towards option 2.

IMHO I believe that SA was paid handsomely for that interview, and I'm glad he did it. Not glad he got paid, but now all his lies are right there on tape to be compared with what new statements he decides to pull out of his hat. I also believe that KW and AW were paid a lot of money for their interview as well. Which to my way of thinking, and I really don't care who doesn't agree with me, is what this case was all about from the very beginning. It all fits. There really seems to be no other explanation. Money. And it's disgusting.

 

[jeena]

I'm still very shocked that there were not warning signs that alligators were in the ponds. This is Florida we're talking about. Alligators are everywhere, even in the ditches running along beside highways. I live on the coast of NC and there are signs everywhere near drainage ponds, golf courses, rivers, lakes, ditches, you name it, the signs are there. There's an alligator right now in the drainage pond at Walmart. Weird that there wasn't one at Disney.[/QUOTE
I'm posting some interesting info I found on other sites regarding the Disney gator incident;
It turns out the "no swimming" sign means different things in different states. In Nebraska (the victim Lane's home state), the sign means no swimming or wading because a person or animal could die from toxic algae.

Several Floridians posted although they knew about gator danger in their state and took precautions, they never expected Disney property to have them! (I must admit I thought the same while residing in Orlando).

A few weeks before Lane was killed, there was a gator incident at the Polynesian, and reports were made by employees that gators were getting too close to guests.

Seeing children wading in the lagoon gave tourists a false sense of security it was safe.

Disney built the man-made lagoon adjacent to a pool knowing it was impossible to keep gators out, yet they didn't have appropriate signage, they screwed up.

Didn't KW say when interviewed to do your research before going on a cruise vacation? Her advice would apply to any vacation.

 

[jeena]

I'm still very shocked that there were not warning signs that alligators were in the ponds. This is Florida we're talking about. Alligators are everywhere, even in the ditches running along beside highways. I live on the coast of NC and there are signs everywhere near drainage ponds, golf courses, rivers, lakes, ditches, you name it, the signs are there. There's an alligator right now in the drainage pond at Walmart. Weird that there wasn't one at Disney.[/QUOTE
I'm posting some interesting info I found on other sites regarding the Disney gator incident;
It turns out the "no swimming" sign means different things in different states. In Nebraska (the victim Lane's home state), the sign means no swimming or wading because a person or animal could die from toxic algae.

Several Floridians posted although they knew about gator danger in their state and took precautions, they never expected Disney property to have them! (I must admit I thought the same while residing in Orlando).

A few weeks before Lane was killed, there was a gator incident at the Polynesian, and reports were made by employees that gators were getting too close to guests.

Seeing children wading in the lagoon gave tourists a false sense of security it was safe.

Disney built the man-made lagoon adjacent to a pool knowing it was impossible to keep gators out, yet they didn't have appropriate signage, they screwed up.

Didn't KW say when interviewed to do your research before going on a cruise vacation? Her advice would apply to any vacation.

 

[jeena]

I wonder if there is any DNA from CW sitting on the metal window frame and perhaps touching it to prove SA is lying about thinking glass was there? I remember that touch DNA was a factor in the JonBenet Ramsey case.
I don't participate in the legal discussions here because I don't know enough, but I was wondering if SA's charges could be upgraded if it is proven by DNA and /or other factors this incident was no accident.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...Geez, I see my reply to lonetraveler just posted, what a delay! Oh, well....

Site lagging for me this morning, too

 

[dixiegirl1035]

DBM...please WS give me a way to delete a double post without all this backspacing!!!!!

Click edit, click left cursor and highlight entire portion, then while highlighted type "DBM". The typing will delete the entire post once you type those three letters. We all know about the double posting issue going on, so folks will understand. None of that awful backspacing for looooong posts needed. I hear ya!

HTH

 

[jeena]

Site lagging for me this morning, too

Site lagging for me this morning, too

I deleted the part of the post about my reply to lonetraveler not posting. Now I wish it didn't post, I just got messages many of my posts were deleted by WS for being off-topic, it must be those Disney gator posts. I haven't posted on this site for years before this case, forgot about straying off-topic. I hope I don't get banned now!

 

[LietKynes]

@jeena ; well don't feel too bad... you didn't bring up the Disney gator posts.
Someone else did to make their point.
And you just politely responded.

As far as RCCL settling-- they more than likely will not as it would set a terrible precedent.
Other 'accident's involving toddlers or babies would multiply massively.
People looking for a payout.

This cruise line goes above and beyond to ensure the safety of their passengers.
They are a business and no one wants to say they're responsible for killing a baby when they know they did nothing of the sort.
This lawsuit is vulgar and greedy.

Everyone including the Wiegands knows that this was never the ships' fault.
The defensive support and love for S.A. from Chloe's parents is beyond comprehension.
It's neither shock nor guilt, as they knew this man for many years and what his past driving records was, to name a few of S.A.'s behaviors.
Besides S.A.'s flagrant disregard for the law he must have other faults that were overlooked.
So it must be something else going on. Who knows ?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I know that she recommended it to others, but did Kim Weigand actually do major research into cruising with a toddler prior to their trip? I got the impression that she (and maybe the other family members) had not cruised previously because there seemed to be many aspects of being on a ship that she didn't know. Had she cruised before, she would have known that upper decks of the ships are open to the environment. Those deck plans tend to be free-flowing with little distinction between various venues. The window from which Chloe fell was not in the children's water play area that is situated in the center of Deck 11. There are no windows there; the windows are along the perimeter of the ship, with that particular window actually in a bar area.

It seems to me that KW did not do sufficient research for the family cruise. Perhaps her admonition to others is based on her own lack of preparation for the pitfalls one might encounter on a cruise ship, especially when traveling with a toddler. Since Chloe was too young for shipboard children's programming, she would have required 24/7 adult supervision. I can't help wondering what type of plan they had for Chloe's care.

 

[fabvab]

Since Chloe was too young for shipboard children's programming, she would have required 24/7 adult supervision. I can't help wondering what type of plan they had for Chloe's care.

Above quote is snipped...
I think their plan for Chloe’s care was 4 grandparents.

 

[IceIce9]

I deleted the part of the post about my reply to lonetraveler not posting. Now I wish it didn't post, I just got messages many of my posts were deleted by WS for being off-topic, it must be those Disney gator posts. I haven't posted on this site for years before this case, forgot about straying off-topic. I hope I don't get banned now!

I didn’t know why the Disney gator was ever brought up in the first place, no similarities at all with this case.

I had replied to that post as well.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Above quote is snipped...
I think their plan for Chloe’s care was 4 grandparents.

Chloe was in the care of one of those grandparents for a brief period of time, and we all know what happened. I would have insisted on a strategic plan for when Chloe would be cared for and by whom. KW's random choice to let SA watch Chloe - by himself - while she ran a quick errand turned out to be a tragic decision.

 

[Arkay]

Click edit, click left cursor and highlight entire portion, then while highlighted type "DBM". The typing will delete the entire post once you type those three letters. We all know about the double posting issue going on, so folks will understand. None of that awful backspacing for looooong posts needed. I hear ya!

HTH

Thank you so much. I only have an IPad, not a laptop, but I'll see if I can figure out how to highlight and delete an entire post.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Thank you so much. I only have an IPad, not a laptop, but I'll see if I can figure out how to highlight and delete an entire post.

I noticed when I use an ipad on here it alway double posts too. Very strange.

 

[SugarPlumLairy]

That’s a good point about the contact DNA. Also I kept thinking, that metal railing must have been so hot to sit on in her swimsuit, wonder if that’s why she “slipped”

So many things disregarded that any normal adult would have considered for a child’s BASIC safety.