IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[Forever Young]

I respectfully disagree, IMHO SA was never honest. If he was really sorry and felt as bad about killing his darling "best friend", he would just come clean and not be fighting the charges. The payout is the prize they have their eyes on, nothing more. JMOO

The color-blind defense was added to the narrative later on. Even in the press conference linked to above, a reporter asks about the tinted glass. At this point in time, Winkleman had no answer to that, saying he had spoken to SA only once. MW evidently had no idea that SA was color-blind when this conference took place.

Granddad of cruise ship toddler who plunged out of window to her death was not drunk, lawyer says: "Sam is not a drinker"

 

[Forever Young]

Winkleman thinks it's totally fine to set a child on a safety railing, as long as there is glass there.

 

[Chikkamma]

SA didn't know he was colorblind until "someone" told him that the condition might have been the reason why he didn't know that the window wasn't closed. I question whether or not the man actually has a colorblindness diagnosis.

I will turn 70 later this month. I've been seeing an ophthalmologist since I was 4 years old due to extreme myopia and a very lazy right eye. I wore "Coke-bottle" glasses until I was old enough (12) for contact lenses that I wore until I had cataract surgery at age 48. I continue to see my ophthalmologist at least twice a year. I took one of the colorblindness tests that was posted by a member here and learned that I actually have a minor colorblindness condition. You could have fooled me! Not once in the nearly 66 years that I've been seeing an ophthalmologist was I ever diagnosed with colorblindness, nor was there any mention of being tested for the condition.

I have doubts about the legitimacy of Winkleman's claims about SA's colorblindness. If his vision was that impaired by the condition, how was he able to drive? Most newer vehicles have tinted windshields, and someone who is colorblind would not be able to properly distinguish traffic signals, yet we know that SA drives because he's been ticketed for not wearing a seatbelt.

I have more than doubts about SA’s colorblind diagnosis. I flat out don’t believe he has one. They either paid a morally-questionable doctor to diagnosis him after the accident or SA and Winkleman are flat out lying. This would not be the first time they have lied publicly, and it won’t be the last.

In any case, a board-certified ophthalmologist (Dr. Vanessa Lopez-Beauchamp) who was interviewed on La Comay stated that colorblindness will have no effect on a person’s ability to tell of a window is open or not. My brother-in-law is an ophthalmologist as well and he said the same.

 

[Forever Young]

And SA, for reasons unknown, thought he was at a hockey game.

 

[Forever Young]

I have more than doubts about SA’s colorblind diagnosis. I flat out don’t believe he has one. They either paid a morally-questionable ‘doctor’ to diagnosis him AFTER the accident or SA and Winkleman are flat out lying. This would not be the first time they have lied publicly, and it won’t be the last.

In any case, a board-certified ophthalmologist, Dr. Vanessa Lopez-Beauchamp, stated that colorblindness will have no effect on a person’s ability to tell of a window is open or not. My brother-in-law is an ophthalmologist as well and he said the same.

ETA: I don't know how anyone can really categorically state what someone else can or cannot see. It is based on what the patient tells you, right?


To this I will add, "Yeah but..."

For every opinion given by a doctor, there is another doctor who will give a different opinion.

 

[Chikkamma]

ETA: I don't know how anyone can really categorically state what someone else can or cannot see. It is based on what the patient tells you, right?


To this I will add, "Yeah but..."

For every opinion given by a doctor, there is another doctor who will give a different opinion.

It is possible to find a doctor who might diagnose colorblindness based on patient history alone, but there do exist definitive foolproof tests to assess if a patient is colorblind and the type of colorblindness they have. A board-certified ophthalmologist would use these tests.

You will not get differing opinions from board-certified ophthalmologists about whether a colorblind patient can distinguish an open from a closed window because what is unequivocal is that colorblindness will not make a person see glass when there is none.

 

[IceIce9]

rsbbm
She had a violent death. But I saw nothing in the way he lifted her that I haven't lifted my babies a million times. jm (unpopular I'm sure) o.

I lifted my babies gently and lovingly. He lifted her like a sack of potatoes he was hoisting up over his shoulder.

 

[IceIce9]

ETA: I don't know how anyone can really categorically state what someone else can or cannot see. It is based on what the patient tells you, right?


To this I will add, "Yeah but..."

For every opinion given by a doctor, there is another doctor who will give a different opinion.

There are screening tests for color deficiencies, and diagnostic tests to determine what type of color deficiency exists, if any. These tests are designed to reveal people who are attempting to fake color deficiencies as well.

 

[Forever Young]

There are screening tests for color deficiencies, and diagnostic tests to determine what type of color deficiency exists, if any. These tests are designed to reveal people who are attempting to fake color deficiencies as well.

Hmm. Did not know that. At any rate, I do not think the certified ophthalmologist quoted has examined SA personally, so shouldn't be used as an expert, testifying as to what he can and cannot see.

 

[IceIce9]

Hmm. Did not know that. At any rate, I do not think the certified ophthalmologist quoted has examined SA personally, so shouldn't be used as an expert, testifying as to what he can and cannot see.

If you want to see some examples of plates used to screen for color deficiencies there are some online color vision quizzes you can take. They are just for fun, as an actual test in a doctor’s office would be given under correct lighting conditions and the plates and slides used have very exact colors.

Here is an example
Ishihara Test for Color Blindness

 

[Chikkamma]

Hmm. Did not know that. At any rate, I do not think the certified ophthalmologist quoted has examined SA personally, so shouldn't be used as an expert, testifying as to what he can and cannot see.

The defense is claiming colorblindness, not “I-see-glass-wherever-I-go” disease. Why shouldn’t a board-certified ophthalmologist be able to testify to the effects colorblindness has and does not have on a patient’s vision?

 

[they'll get you]

The defense is claiming colorblindness, not “I-see-glass-wherever-I-go” disease. Why shouldn’t a board-certified ophthalmologist be able to testify to the effects colorblindness has and does not have on a patient’s vision and whether it could cause a patient to see glass when there is open air?

The colourblindness went out the window at this point.

 

[they'll get you]

Under magnification you can see how high he lifted Chloe above his head and over the rail.

 

[Forever Young]

The defense is claiming colorblindness, not “I-see-glass-wherever-I-go” disease. Why shouldn’t a board-certified ophthalmologist be able to testify to the effects colorblindness has and does not have on a patient’s vision and whether it could cause a patient to see glass when there is open air?

Because every pair of eyes is unique, and every set of circumstances is unique. IMO, just a sweeping statement, made by someone on the very same program that leaked the video, and supported their particular view of what happened.

Somewhere up-thread a poster who is color-blind themselves said that all the windows looked the same because they could not distinguish the blue skies from the blue-green glass.

I might have felt differently about this had the ophthalmologist been asked if SA could distinguish blue skies from blue-green glass. Or did he merely think that there was extra-clean clear glass in front of him?

 

[MsMarple]

I call BS!! They are lying!!
This photo of the little blue canopy is NOT A BLUE POLICE TENT!!

View attachment 223737
The view over the railing showing a blue police tent, thought to be covering Chloe Wiegand’s body. Picture: Lipcon, Margulies, Alsina Winkleman, P.A.Source:Supplied
Chilling photo from toddler’s cruise death


This blue canopy is there in this video @ 1:35 on a different day.

Did you post the correct video? I don't see a tent and the narrator says it's Falmouth, Jamaica, not Puerto Rico.

 

[they'll get you]

Under magnification it appears Chloe’s hat blows back from the wind.
I could be wrong.

 

[they'll get you]

Did you post the correct video? I don't see a tent and the narrator says it's Falmouth, Jamaica, not Puerto Rico.

OK but the same kind of blue canopy is on the dock so I doubt it’s a police cover as Winkleman said.

 

[Forever Young]

View attachment 223770

Under magnification it appears Chloe’s hat blows back from the wind.
I could be wrong.

Good catch.

 

[Yellowbeak]

If Chloe had stayed down or if he’d picked her up behind the rail BOTH OF THEM would’ve been able to see down to the dock.

The way the windows are designed is to allow you to stand at the rail and still look directly down.
View attachment 223719
This was taken by me standing straight at the rail and looking directly down.

Thank you for the great picture! I wish someone was on the ship now and could recreate SA scenario as far as height , arm extension etc.

 

[Chikkamma]

Because every pair of eyes is unique, and every set of circumstances is unique. IMO, just a sweeping statement, made by someone on the very same program that leaked the video, and supported their particular view of what happened.

Somewhere up-thread a poster who is color-blind themselves said that all the windows looked the same because they could not distinguish the blue skies from the blue-green glass.

I might have felt differently about this had the ophthalmologist been asked if SA could distinguish blue skies from blue-green glass. Or did he merely think that there was extra-clean clear glass in front of him?

Fair enough. But not being able to distinguish colors in a photo is very different than making the affirmative statement that you saw glass when standing in front of open air. Imo.