IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[sl222]

A lot of the things in the civil suit are double-edged swords that will also probably be used by the prosecution to prove their case.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Wow! That’s is strange. What is the MW app?

I don't know the specifics, but the app is supposed to have information and instructions for what to do if you are injured or experience some type of "accident" while onboard a cruise vessel. I recall having read about it here, but I'm not sure if it was quoted from MSM or shared by a member. Actions by the parents following the incident indicate that they knew there were certain things that they needed to do, i.e. take photos, not let SA take a breathalyzer or submit to blood draw, not let Grandpa speak to PR authorities, contact civil attorney within 24 hours, etc. I realize that both of Chloe's parents are in occupations where they pay attention to details, so it's entirely possible that they wouldn't have needed an app to take the steps that they did in the hours immediately following Chloe's tragic fall.

 

[al66pine]

Awning. Which Side?

Here is the pic of the awning that ran alongside Freedom of the Seas (I couldn't find the link earlier).
View attachment 223619

Parents of Chloe Wiegand sue Royal Caribbean over her death | Daily Mail Online

@SouthAussie Nice pic. IIRC, Chloe'sdrop/fall close to Squeeze bar window was on port side of Fr/Seas onto dock. IOW, w this pic, if Squeeze bar is on port side, and Chloe dropped, she would have landed in water. Looks like this ship's starboard side is to dock, so seems awning is on 'wrong' side for Chloe to have hit. Or maybe I'm looking at it back-*advertiser censored*-wards?

{{{ETA: Your post 949, w pic of sister ship, had port side at dock, so if same deck plan as Fr/Seas, then Squeeze bar would be on the 'correct' side for drop/fall from window close to Squeeze bar, then hitting the awning, if at 'correct' spot, then landing on dock, not in water.}}}

 

[al66pine]

Wow! That’s is strange. What is the MW app?

Go to law firm website lipcon.com
Scroll down, looking on right hand side ---
"Download Our Free Cruise Ship Injury App
Our legal team has developed a unique iPhone and Android-compatible application designed to help you when you need a maritime lawyer the most. Download our exclusive application and bring it with you on your smartphone or tablet on your next cruise vacation. Our app allows you to easily store and retain everything you might need to present to a lawyer: ..." bbm

A poster suggested maybe MOM or Dad had downloaded, before trip. AFAIK, no MSM substantiation of that, but they were in touch w Winkleman pretty quick. I think he gave a presser or did a media release two days (July 9?) after Chloe's death (July 7, ~ 4:30 pm).

(I did not open/load the app, for fear of my tablet getting cooties and dying of a virus. )

 

[sl222]

I don't have a link for this, but in the MSM near the very beginning, it was stated that the parents learned about Winkleman's law firm from someone they knew who recommended it. If someone (a friend or colleague) looked into what law firm specializes in cruise lawsuits then it figures they would find this law firm.

 

[newyooper]

Which family member had downloaded MW's app about what to do if something goes wrong when you're on a cruise? This has bugged me no end since I read about it. Who plans a vacation thinking that something bad is going to happen?

Some people, like me, think that way. We are worriers and planners. Before we leave on each trip our housesitter knows the name of our executor and what steps to take should anything terrible happen. If I took a cruise I'd probably download that app, too.

 

[IceIce9]

I brought up "Lane, at Disney", not because the case is similar, but the supposed settlement amount given to the family. There never was a lawsuit, but estimates are that pain and suffering amount to the family involved is estimated to be around $10 million.

Which is quite impressive, given that this was a small child, similar age to Chloe. It gives pause,


Why did he put her out a window, 11 stories up?

The pain and suffering Chloe’s family experience is not the fault of RCCL. I hope RCCL doesn’t give them a dime.

 

[Pammi]

Maybe this was addressed earlier and I missed it.... if so my apologies.

wouldn’t you feel the air coming through the open window into your face before you picked her up? the comido video seems to show him sticking head into opening past the rail, then turn and bend to pick her up.

and, am I just over protective in that I wouldn’t lift my child to allow her to bang on any glass for fear it would break?

i was a complete helicopter parent so wondering if my expectation isn’t appropriate...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Some people, like me, think that way. We are worriers and planners. Before we leave on each trip our housesitter knows the name of our executor and what steps to take should anything terrible happen. If I took a cruise I'd probably download that app, too.

Planner, for sure. Worrier, definitely not. Planning ahead and being well-prepared is probably why I'm not a worrier

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Maybe this was addressed earlier and I missed it.... if so my apologies.

wouldn’t you feel the air coming through the open window into your face before you picked her up? the comido video seems to show him sticking head into opening past the rail, then turn and bend to pick her up.

and, am I just over protective in that I wouldn’t lift my child to allow her to bang on any glass for fear it would break?

i was a complete helicopter parent so wondering if my expectation isn’t appropriate...

Absolutely! Even when a ship is in port, there is a noticeable breeze, especially on open upper decks. Also, there would have been sounds on the dock below, forklifts moving about, street noises near the port, etc. Standing in front of an open window one would also notice the smells of ocean air and the sea.

 

[Forever Young]

Snippet from article that caught my Eye.
”The case also claims a 46cm gap between the wooden railing and the open window made it even more difficult for the horrified grandad to reach over and grab the toddler as she plunged to her death.”
So they are saying the gap between the rail and window was so large that it made it difficult for him to grab her once she fell.... so then they are basically saying that he had to intentionally place her that far out for her to even fall. They are not helping their argument if you ask me. JMO

Somewhere, there is an interview cut in which Winkleman states that when SA viewed straight down from the railing at the gap, he could see the lower window glass, so this caused him to think that the glass went all the way up.

He said something to the fact that the placement of the railing actually made it harder to distinguish where the glass began and ended.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Maybe this was addressed earlier and I missed it.... if so my apologies.

wouldn’t you feel the air coming through the open window into your face before you picked her up? the comido video seems to show him sticking head into opening past the rail, then turn and bend to pick her up.

and, am I just over protective in that I wouldn’t lift my child to allow her to bang on any glass for fear it would break?

i was a complete helicopter parent so wondering if my expectation isn’t appropriate...

BBM IMHO anyone encouraging their child to bang on any glass needs a visit from Child Protective. Don't tell me that AW, a police officer (who you KNOW has gone through many safety courses) was on board with such a dangerous pastime. My son is a police officer so I DO know what I am talking about. And even if it was only at a hockey arena, who wants their child right by the glass? Pucks have been known to shatter glass at hockey venues, and most have signs and announcements NOT TO BANG ON THE GLASS. I have never heard so many stupid excuses during a case in my life. There is only one way Chloe ended up out that window, her "gpa" put her out that window. For whatever reason.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Somewhere, there is an interview cut in which Winkleman states that when SA viewed straight down from the railing at the gap, he could see the lower window glass, so this caused him to think that the glass went all the way up.

He said something to the fact that the placement of the railing actually made it harder to distinguish where the glass began and ended.

BBM Funny how the other people on board didn't have that problem and were able to keep themselves and their precious children safe on the ship. I wouldn't believe Winkie if he told me what time it was. He still insists that the window in question is in the children's play area!

 

[Forever Young]

Great post. I’d like to add one more to that list:
-The father taking a photo of the scene the same day but at night when all the windows are closed. This photo the father took was used to make it look like all the windows are the same color (no tint at night) and are uniform in appearance (like whole glass panels rather than functioning, opening windows).

There may be no noticeable tint at night, but I would think that the reflection from lights around the pool area would be very noticeable, as well as your own reflection.

 

[Forever Young]

I think highly suspect considering the photos (by father) would only be taken for three reasons: 1. To try to prove fault on RCCL’s part. 2. To try to prove fault on AS’s part. 3. To try to prove AS was not at fault. Obviously #2 is not the reason because they have never blamed the father. Presumably, considering AS nor family were not cooperating with investigator for whatever reason, investigators were probably not talking charges at that time so, unless the father thought (or had reason to believe) AS would be charged, there was no reason to take the pictures for that purpose (#3). For that reason and because the father “altered” the perception of the scene, it would be a logical conclusion that he was taking the photos to try to prove RCCL was at fault.

Here is another thing that bothers me. The parents were so quick to announce their intention to file suit (within days of the accident). They hadn’t even discussed with the cruise line the possibility of a resolution...aka...”fixing” the windows. I could see if they had approached the cruise line to discuss possible problems/resolutions but they didn’t; they had already decided to file suit. So in my mind, it is not about “fixing the boat,” it’s about seeking a monetary award. JMO

IMO, the parents knew the very night of the incident that there was a good chance of negligent homicide charges being filed. The mother even asked prosecutors that charges not be brought against SA. Maybe the parents initially thought that they could fight this by threatening to sue the cruise line and showing their complete support for SA.

ETA: The actual filing of the suit did not occur until SA was formally charged.

 

[Pak31]

rsbbm
She had a violent death. But I saw nothing in the way he lifted her that I haven't lifted my babies a million times. jm (unpopular I'm sure) o.

From what I saw in the surveillance video, he whipped her little body up and over so fast and then had her by one arm. I lifted my kids up quickly when they were small, I’m sure, but not on a cruise ship eleven stories up into an open window. He wasn’t the least bit cautious. If it’s outside in the grass it’s one thing but I honestly gasped out loud when I saw the way he flung her into the window. Inexcusable. IF he truly thought there was glass in that window then he would have slammed her into the glass. Either way what was he even thinking????

 

[Yellowbeak]

ITA. That IS crazy since the purpose of this gap is for safety.

Exactly... that is what threw me. I had to read it over a few times to make sure I was interpreting it correctly. So they are also complaining that the rail was too far away from the window... who says that??!

 

[justbreathe]

Snippet from article that caught my Eye.
”The case also claims a 46cm gap between the wooden railing and the open window made it even more difficult for the horrified grandad to reach over and grab the toddler as she plunged to her death.”
So they are saying the gap between the rail and window was so large that it made it difficult for him to grab her once she fell.... so then they are basically saying that he had to intentionally place her that far out for her to even fall. They are not helping their argument if you ask me. JMO

Yes. They are claiming the railing and distance to the window, there to prevent people from going out the window, functioned as designed by preventing SA from going out the window after being a dummy and dropping something out the window. It’s just what he dropped was a small child. It is an odd circular logic that still highlights the fact that she never, ever should have been placed on, never mind *beyond,* the safety railing. Because it was designed to prevent people from going out the window.

 

[sl222]

... He said something to the fact that the placement of the railing actually made it harder to distinguish where the glass began and ended.

Oh my holy Lord have mercy. There Winkleman goes again making absurd statements about the safety railing.

 

[justbreathe]

Chilling photo from toddler’s cruise death
In video ( presser) Chloe’s father cries so very hard as the mother gets through the reading of her statement...I said days ago this felt like IMO to show unity,pushing ahead,holding Cruise line feet to fire. But it looks like Chloe’s father is falling apart.
IMO I don’t see how they can keep this up. At some point all humans need a rest from intense stress. I agree with others. That if they had quietly dealt with the horrid mistake the grandfather obviously made..instead of this blame shifting fairytale that Wink is weaving...it would start to take a natural grievance course.
Painful to watch.

MOO

They also could have quietly filed their lawsuit and not gone on a press tour to try to make their case to the public. Maybe then the video would not have been leaked?