IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #8

[IceIce9]

Grandfather of toddler who died after falling from cruise ship window charged with negligent homicide

Several of us here on WS had discussed that the grandfather was negligent in holding little Chloe up to the open window

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[CocoChanel]

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[neesaki]

Are you watching the PR talk show video?? I’d like to rewatch what you guys are talking about. Thanks!

I’m watching that one, downloaded in HD. Here’s a link.

https://video-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v...=df20b5f88cf2d5e59987f67876b9c5fa&oe=5E66D171

 

[justbreathe]

Surely with all of the animal lovers here, some can relate to this. Big ol’ goofy hunting dog. Watch the complete and total change in stance, body language and focused energy when locking onto a scent.

See, that’s one of the things that just keeps nagging at me about the video.

SA is just loafing along, ever so much out of reach of little Chloe. To me, it just seems like his movements and energy change completely once they get to the window. That one quick movement from floor to on/beyond guardrail. What I am able to see (laptop dead and still on dinky iPad) is fast, purposeful and coordinated. Not the movements I associate with an impaired person.

Apologies to all dogs everywhere for even mentioning them in the same post as SA.

What I see is the bravado and confidence of someone high as a kite and climbing up a telephone phone. Everything is great and under control. Until it isn’t. Or the thing you say. Idk?

 

[mheido67]

Good catch, his hand does raise up and there does appear to be something in it. Wow, SMH.

Something else I just noticed, the window that's open has several inches still exposed, apparently this is how it's designed, to not be 100 % open. Through that small section of glass, SA's head can be seen on the other side of it, i.e. .... his head can totally be seen OUTSIDE that window. This is right before he shifts her over from his right arm to his left. I have never noticed that before! Absolutely mind boggling, the propoganda that MW and fam have been trying to sell, and it's nothing but lies.

I’m not seeing this. I think what you might be seeing is the two columns that are just to the left of the window. In order to see SA’s head outside the glass he would have had to have his entire head outside and angled in a way that I really do think is not physically possible. If you could post a screen shot of what you’re seeing that would be great.

 

[justbreathe]

Good catch, his hand does raise up and there does appear to be something in it. Wow, SMH.

Something else I just noticed, the window that's open has several inches still exposed, apparently this is how it's designed, to not be 100 % open. Through that small section of glass, SA's head can be seen on the other side of it, i.e. .... his head can totally be seen OUTSIDE that window. This is right before he shifts her over from his right arm to his left. I have never noticed that before! Absolutely mind boggling, the propoganda that MW and fam have been trying to sell, and it's nothing but lies.

In some versions I swear I can see Chloe’s arm moving through that section of glass. Other times I can’t. The high def version will be telling.

 

[neesaki]

I’m not seeing this. I think what you might be seeing is the two columns that are just to the left of the window. In order to see SA’s head outside the glass he would have had to have his entire head outside and angled in a way that I really do think is not physically possible. If you could post a screen shot of what you’re seeing that would be great.

I didn’t see it either when viewing on my iPad, just my desktop with a large monitor. Also it was even more clear when I used my magnifying glass.

ETA: I've tried several times to post a screen shot and can't get it to work.

 

[JulieBEMT]

Is there a deadline by which the judge has to rule on the latest motion to dismiss? Thanks.

 

[they'll get you]

I’m watching that one, downloaded in HD. Here’s a link.

https://video-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v...=df20b5f88cf2d5e59987f67876b9c5fa&oe=5E66D171

When SA drops Chloe @ 15:16 there are two men who are sitting right there next to SA, one in a white shirt and his friend in a black shirt, they get up instantly and walk away.
They didn’t need to register what might have happened but they knew instantly. I’ve said it before imo they saw it unfolding and the man in the black shirt saw it happen.
We’ve got witnesses, good witnesses as well as the cctv.

 

[mheido67]

When SA drops Chloe @ 15:16 there are two men who are sitting right there next to SA, one in a white shirt and his friend in a black shirt, they get up instantly and walk away.
They didn’t need to register what might have happened but they knew instantly. I’ve said it before imo they saw it unfolding and the man in the black shirt saw it happen.
We’ve got witnesses, good witnesses as well as the cctv.

15:16 on that video is before he drops her. They clearly walked away between the time SA shifted CW from his right side to his left and when she falls. If you continue watching both of those men turn around and start to move back towards the windows when the commotion starts.

 

[WiseGuy]

When SA drops Chloe @ 15:16 there are two men who are sitting right there next to SA, one in a white shirt and his friend in a black shirt, they get up instantly and walk away.
They didn’t need to register what might have happened but they knew instantly. I’ve said it before imo they saw it unfolding and the man in the black shirt saw it happen.
We’ve got witnesses, good witnesses as well as the cctv.

Not sure what you are looking at. Both men are seated with backs to Anello. At 15:16 white shirt gets up, at 15: 22 black shirt gets up. Both are walking toward camera with backs to Anello. Chloe isn't dropped until 15:36, both men are walking away and could not have seen the actual drop. Yes, when seated they were very close to the whole incident but I don't see how they could have actually witnessed the incident. However there appear to be several other people in a better position to have witnessed it all. Can't wait to hear their testimony. I've always felt that eyewitness accounts could be as convincing as the video, and difficult for Winkleman to discredit.

 

[Daisy Chain]

BBM My vote is for "WORSE".

I havnt followed the case deeply, so Im amazed that there is even a possibility that this could have happened intentionally.
Can you tell me why youre so convince?

 

[mheido67]

Not sure what you are looking at. Both men are seated with backs to Anello. At 15:16 white shirt gets up, at 15: 22 black shirt gets up. Both are walking toward camera with backs to Anello. Chloe isn't dropped until 15:36, both men are walking away and could not have seen the actual drop. Yes, when seated they were very close to the whole incident but I don't see how they could have actually witnessed the incident. However there appear to be several other people in a better position to have witnessed it all. Can't wait to hear their testimony. I've always felt that eyewitness accounts could be as convincing as the video, and difficult for Winkleman to discredit.

I honestly don't see anyone in the video who clearly seems to be paying attention to what SA is doing. It will be very interesting to find out who saw what.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I havnt followed the case deeply, so Im amazed that there is even a possibility that this could have happened intentionally.
Can you tell me why youre so convince?

Because of the video, for one thing. It looks pretty deliberate to me. How could someone who supposedly loved this child SO MUCH put her in jeopardy like that "accidentally"? He had to really work at it to get her out that window, from what I saw. SA did not seem that devastated in the interview with David Begnaud. He did do some fake crying at the end. A person would have to be a complete moron to "accidentally" drop a child out of a window like that, so why was he chosen to watch Chloe when there was many more appropriate adults on that cruise who could have done so? People without a background and history of reckless behavior. The whole story stinks and gets worse the more you delve in to it. JMOO.

 

[Daisy Chain]

Because of the video, for one thing. It looks pretty deliberate to me. How could someone who supposedly loved this child SO MUCH put her in jeopardy like that "accidentally"? He had to really work at it to get her out that window, from what I saw. SA did not seem that devastated in the interview with David Begnaud. He did do some fake crying at the end. A person would have to be a complete moron to "accidentally" drop a child out of a window like that, so why was he chosen to watch Chloe when there was many more appropriate adults on that cruise who could have done so? People without a background and history of reckless behavior. The whole story stinks and gets worse the more you delve in to it. JMOO.

Thanks for sharing. I had no idea. Do you feel the whole family is behind it? Or just the GF? And for what reason would he/they want her dead?

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Thanks for sharing. I had no idea. Do you feel the whole family is behind it? Or just the GF? And for what reason would he/they want her dead?

I have a lot of theories. Some of them are against TOS right now, and I don't feel like getting timed out or worse from sharing them.

 

[Kakidoll]

I so wish the original threads were able to be recovered. They sure would come in handy about now. Maybe for future cases, mods can 'store' the ones they take down that we have theorized about before LE jumped on the same bandwagon.

 

[JulieBEMT]

I have a lot of theories. Some of them are against TOS right now, and I don't feel like getting timed out or worse from sharing them.

I also believe this may have been intentional, and have some theories as to why. As Saguaro said, this seemed very deliberate. Here are some facts that have already been discussed:

• It would not have been easy to lift this child up to the level he did, and then hold her there for 34 seconds!
  
• The family was immediately taking photos of the scene.
• They advised the GF to refuse a breathalyzer and blood test.
• There were five other adults in the group, and yet this irresponsible man was left to care for a toddler.
• CW was only in his care for 15 minutes before she was dropped out the window.
  
• They had a civil lawyer doing a press conference about 36 hours after the death of their child. (Before the funeral, before traveling home, and before hiring a criminal lawyer to defend the GF.)
• They quickly produced photos of CW at hockey games and came up with the "bang on the glass"story.
  
• They immediately went on a national media tour blaming Royal Caribbean for this incident.
• They stand by the man who dropped their child to her death and claim he should not be charged, while referring to this as "a misdemeanor."
  
• They are now suing RCCL for "unlimited damages," for having a window that opened.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Thanks for sharing. I had no idea. Do you feel the whole family is behind it? Or just the GF? And for what reason would he/they want her dead?

I’m beginning to wonder if there wasn’t an underlying resentment on SA’s part toward CW. Why, I have no idea, but it sure feels like something was at play here. I hate to state it so bluntly, but his actions sure don’t equal that of a doting GF who would never harm his ‘best friend’. Not by the way I see him manhandling the small toddler on the video. That alone would infuriate me as a mother. And then to drop her 11 stories to her death....JMO

 

[JulieBEMT]

I’m beginning to wonder if there wasn’t an underlying resentment on SA’s part toward CW. Why, I have no idea, but it sure feels like something was at play here. I hate to state it so bluntly, but his actions sure don’t equal that of a doting GF who would never harm his ‘best friend’. Not by the way I see him manhandling the small toddler on the video. That alone would infuriate me as a mother. And then to drop her 11 stories to her death....JMO

So true! I just cannot get over the fact that there seems to be no anger or resentment towards the man who dropped her child to her death! It's beyond anything I can even comprehend.