IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #8

[neesaki]

I so wish the original threads were able to be recovered. They sure would come in handy about now. Maybe for future cases, mods can 'store' the ones they take down that we have theorized about before LE jumped on the same bandwagon.

I don’t recall entire threads being deleted forever, is it a known they aren’t recoverable? Could they just be archived? This may have been answered before but I don’t recall it. I wish / hope they’re still recoverable too!

 

[neesaki]

I also believe this may have been intentional, and have some theories as to why. As Saguaro said, this seemed very deliberate. Here are some facts that have already been discussed:

• It would not have been easy to lift this child up to the level he did, and then hold her there for 34 seconds!
  
• The family was immediately taking photos of the scene.
• They advised the GF to refuse a breathalyzer and blood test.
• There were five other adults in the group, and yet this irresponsible man was left to care for a toddler.
• CW was only in his care for 15 minutes before she was dropped out the window.
  
• They had a civil lawyer doing a press conference about 36 hours after the death of their child. (Before the funeral, before traveling home, and before hiring a criminal lawyer to defend the GF.)
• They quickly produced photos of CW at hockey games and came up with the "bang on the glass"story.
  
• They immediately went on a national media tour blaming Royal Caribbean for this incident.
• They stand by the man who dropped their child to her death and claim he should not be charged, while referring to this as "a misdemeanor."
  
• They are now suing RCCL for "unlimited damages," for having a window that opened.

Very Well said, JulieB !

I’m beginning to wonder if there wasn’t an underlying resentment on SA’s part toward CW. Why, I have no idea, but it sure feels like something was at play here. I hate to state it so bluntly, but his actions sure don’t equal that of a doting GF who would never harm his ‘best friend’. Not by the way I see him manhandling the small toddler on the video. That alone would infuriate me as a mother. And then to drop her 11 stories to her death....JMO

Reminds me of what Nancy Grace said about poor little Caylee Anthony, she was thrown away like trash. That’s exactly what it looks like SA did, threw baby Chloe away like trash!

 

[loveandhugs]

I also believe this may have been intentional, and have some theories as to why. As Saguaro said, this seemed very deliberate. Here are some facts that have already been discussed:

• It would not have been easy to lift this child up to the level he did, and then hold her there for 34 seconds!
  
• The family was immediately taking photos of the scene.
• They advised the GF to refuse a breathalyzer and blood test.
• There were five other adults in the group, and yet this irresponsible man was left to care for a toddler.
• CW was only in his care for 15 minutes before she was dropped out the window.
  
• They had a civil lawyer doing a press conference about 36 hours after the death of their child. (Before the funeral, before traveling home, and before hiring a criminal lawyer to defend the GF.)
• They quickly produced photos of CW at hockey games and came up with the "bang on the glass"story.
  
• They immediately went on a national media tour blaming Royal Caribbean for this incident.
• They stand by the man who dropped their child to her death and claim he should not be charged, while referring to this as "a misdemeanor."
  
• They are now suing RCCL for "unlimited damages," for having a window that opened.

And for every reason you stated I have felt like this was intentional and began feeling that way before the video was released. I do hope for justice for Chloe.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

And for every reason you stated I have felt like this was intentional and began feeling that way before the video was released. I do hope for justice for Chloe.

This is what the majority wants, but Chloe's parents seem more concerned about justice for Grandpa

 

[al66pine]

Parents Want What for SA?

This is what the majority wants, but Chloe's parents seem more concerned about justice for Grandpa

@BetteDavisEyes
Justice, synonyms: fairness · fair play · fair-mindedness · equity · even-handedness
Do parents want ^^^^^ "Justice" for SA ^^^^^?
Sorry, IDTS. In Dec 11 presser, KSW did not ask for his exoneration, acquittal, exculpation, pardon, etc., She said, IIRC, she/they did not want Sam charged w misdemeanor. Not even charged?!?! Parents did not want SA to be def. in the crim justice system, nor did they name him as def. in their civil suit either.

Imo, seems justice for SA is the last thing on their minds.

{ETA: if a stranger had picked up Chloe & dropped her, would KSW/they feel the same way?
Or would the Complaint name that stranger as another defendant in the wrongful death action? And would KSW say the stranger should not be charged w a misdemeanor? I wonder.}

 

[Wehwalt]

Is there a deadline by which the judge has to rule on the latest motion to dismiss? Thanks.

No.

 

[mheido67]

No.

But there would be a deadline for plaintiffs to respond, correct?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Parents Want What for SA?
...Imo, seems justice for SA is the last thing on their minds...

I think you've misunderstood or misinterpreted my post. Most here want justice for little Chloe, but her parents seem more concerned about how Grandpa should be treated. They don't think he should be charged with negligent homicide, face a judge or jury in a trial, and they certainly don't want him to go to prison for the "misdemeanor" that caused Chloe's death. The Weigands think that SA was treated unjustly when he was charged with negligent homicide for Chloe's death.

 

[mheido67]

I think you've misunderstood or misinterpreted my post. Most here want justice for little Chloe, but her parents seem more concerned about how Grandpa should be treated. They don't think he should be charged with negligent homicide, face a judge or jury in a trial, and they certainly don't want him to go to prison for the "misdemeanor" that caused Chloe's death. The Weigands think that SA was treated unjustly when he was charged with negligent homicide for Chloe's death.

Well, to play devil's advocate for a moment, I think one could make the argument that many here simply have a disagreement with the Wiegands about how justice should be served for Chloe. They claim to believe a flaw in the design of the ship that created a hidden danger unseen by SA is to blame. As such they are seeking redress from the cruise company. I don't think it's fair to say they don't want justice for Chloe. Many here just disagree with who the finger of blame should be pointing at.

 

[al66pine]

I think you've misunderstood or misinterpreted my post. Most here want justice for little Chloe, but her parents seem more concerned about how Grandpa should be treated. They don't think he should be charged with negligent homicide, face a judge or jury in a trial, and they certainly don't want him to go to prison for the "misdemeanor" that caused Chloe's death. The Weigands think that SA was treated unjustly when he was charged with negligent homicide for Chloe's death.

@BetteDavisEyes No, respectfully, imo, not misunderstanding or misinterp'ing your post. May help to re-read my post. Agreeing w. your post here. ^ Bbm is what parents think.

 

[al66pine]

Well, to play devil's advocate for a moment, I think one could make the argument that many here simply have a disagreement with the Wiegands about how justice should be served for Chloe. They claim to believe a flaw in the design of the ship that created a hidden danger unseen by SA is to blame. As such they are seeking redress from the cruise company. I don't think it's fair to say they don't want justice for Chloe. Many here just disagree with who the finger of blame should be pointing at.

@mheido67 bbm Precisely.

 

[Daisy Chain]

Do you not feel that the parents may be advocating for the GF so strongly, because they've already lost their GC and dont want to lose another family member?

With all these threads, I imagine this question has already been asked before, so forgive me if its annoying. hahah

 

[ilovewings]

Dont you think if the attorneys for the cruise ship thought
this was an intentional act, they would charge grandpa with murder???

i strongly disagree tbat was in any way intentional- i believe it was
a stupid, reckkess and negligent act tbat deserves punishment-

i think the parents are in denial about the recklessness of grandpa's actions
and unfortunately they are looming for a big pay day

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

re drinking the second you board the ship

I am not much of a drinker, but I do vacation and vacation often and my observation of other vacationers is that they start vacation drinking the second the get to the airport and hit the bar. Plus on the plane, and all the way there.

During a discussion a few threads ago about whether there is evidence of SA drinking on the board, I said that he didn't need to drink on the boat. If they flew in the day before and stayed in a hotel at port, he could have started off the day at breakfast drinking bloody marys or whatever. I don't think it had to start boarding the ship.

 

[JulieBEMT]

Dont you think if the attorneys for the cruise ship thought
this was an intentional act, they would charge grandpa with murder???

i strongly disagree tbat was in any way intentional- i believe it was
a stupid, reckkess and negligent act tbat deserves punishment-

i think the parents are in denial about the recklessness of grandpa's actions
and unfortunately they are looming for a big pay day

The attorneys for the cruise line have nothing to do with the criminal charges. That would be up to the prosecuting attorney in Puerto Rico. They have charged him with negligent homicide. I believe they choose this charge because they knew it was the charge they could prove. Intentional homicide would be much harder to prove.

 

[HRH Phoebe Cat]

Do you not feel that the parents may be advocating for the GF so strongly, because they've already lost their GC and dont want to lose another family member?

With all these threads, I imagine this question has already been asked before, so forgive me if its annoying. hahah

Daisy Chain, initially I could somewhat understand this.

However, as late as the December 11 press conference, their attorney implied they still had not viewed the video. His wording was interesting, “They don’t want to see the video.” Please note he did not clearly state, “They have not seen the video.”

Okay, so the mother is a former prosecuting attorney and the father in LE. These are two people who have professional standards and ethics to uphold in their duties.

Their very public comments holding SA free of any blame while maintaining they have not watched the (very damning IMO) video just doesn’t cut it with me. This is just one of many red flags in this case for me.

True justice is not blaming one person, company, etc while publicly ignoring evidence to the contrary. It may help them sleep better at night to blame RCCL than to admit that SA was at best negligent. No, true justice starts with learning the truth to the best of one’s ability. JMO but, as horrible as little Chloe’s death was, as parents as well as an attorney and LEO they do not come across to me as wanting the real truth or justice if it involves holding SA to account and/or missing out on a huge payday from RCCL.

Just. My. Own. Thoughts. and Opinions.

 

[ilovewings]

The attorneys for the cruise line have nothing to do with the criminal charges. That would be up to the prosecuting attorney in Puerto Rico. They have charged him with negligent homicide. I believe they choose this charge because they knew it was the charge they could prove. Intentional homicide would be much harder to prove.

i agree - i just. dont see any evidence of an intentional act

 

[LietKynes]

Daisy Chain, initially I could somewhat understand this.

However, as late as the December 11 press conference, their attorney implied they still had not viewed the video. His wording was interesting, “They don’t want to see the video.” Please note he did not clearly state, “They have not seen the video.”

Okay, so the mother is a former prosecuting attorney and the father in LE. These are two people who have professional standards and ethics to uphold in their duties.

Their very public comments holding SA free of any blame while maintaining they have not watched the (very damning IMO) video just doesn’t cut it with me. This is just one of many red flags in this case for me.

True justice is not blaming one person, company, etc while publicly ignoring evidence to the contrary. It may help them sleep better at night to blame RCCL than to admit that SA was at best negligent. No, true justice starts with learning the truth to the best of one’s ability. JMO but, as horrible as little Chloe’s death was, as parents as well as an attorney and LEO they do not come across to me as wanting the real truth or justice if it involves holding SA to account and/or missing out on a huge payday from RCCL.

Just. My. Own. Thoughts. and Opinions.

Agreed.
Very well stated and I fully believe there is possible evidence that this was intentional and premeditated.
The actions of the Wiegands' and SA go beyond strange.

They do not want to watch the video as it would show their story to be a lie.
And yes, there's the financial aspect.

 

[HRH Phoebe Cat]

And another thing, Daisy Chain....

What about another family member...Chloe’s brother? By continuing the “wall of glass” and “banging on the glass of the hockey ring” sob stories, can you imagine how traumatic it is for Chloe’s brother?

Does he now associate his playing hockey with being the cause of Chloe’s death?

 

[mheido67]

re drinking the second you board the ship

I am not much of a drinker, but I do vacation and vacation often and my observation of other vacationers is that they start vacation drinking the second the get to the airport and hit the bar. Plus on the plane, and all the way there.

During a discussion a few threads ago about whether there is evidence of SA drinking on the board, I said that he didn't need to drink on the boat. If they flew in the day before and stayed in a hotel at port, he could have started off the day at breakfast drinking bloody marys or whatever. I don't think it had to start boarding the ship.

FULL DISCLOSURE: It is a universal truth that I will have a drink in my hand at sail away on a cruise. No apologies offered.