Oh, I know. I meant it more as a counter to the "SA was only charged to protect the cruise line" arguments that keep coming up as if RCCL somehow has control over the criminal justice system and gets to make decisions about charges.
IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #8
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CA Alison Chao, 15-year-old girl Missing in San Gabriel Valley Last seen 7/16/24- Latest: BenjaminJAndersonAlly
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Oh, I know. I meant it more as a counter to the "SA was only charged to protect the cruise line" arguments that keep coming up as if RCCL somehow has control over the criminal justice system and gets to make decisions about charges.
loveandhugs
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You said it perfectly! I have been on many cruises, I see very responsible parents drinking and I see not so responsible parents drinking, but they are also the ones that would be that way even if they didn't take a drink. No proof SA was drunk, but no matter if he was, or on medication, little Chloe is dead because of SA. In my soul I still feel it may have been intentional by the way SA walked right over to the open window when we go up, and he had to go to the left to do it, not a straight line. While squatting he seemed to be looking over at the windows, and then looked to his right as though he wanted to see if someone was watching him. Then looking out of the window, it is as though he wanted to see if anything would break little Chloe's fall. Again this is JMO, everyone feels differently, we sometimes disagree. Being reckless and stupid should not mean SA gets a free pass in the death of Chloe. I do hope it is more than probation. We have become a society where people do not want to take responsibility for their actions, which gives them an excuse to be reckless and stupid.
Having been on more than 20 cruises, I think your perception is a bit skewed. While there can be a "drunken party atmosphere" on some cruises, it's generally on the short 3 - 4 night cruises (or spring break) where there are a lot of college kids. This was a 7 night cruise out of San Juan. It's going to have a more mature crowd. The cruise line doesn't "push" alcohol consumption" at all. The all-inclusive drink packages are quite expensive. (Usually about $61 per person per day plus 18% gratuities. That's just over $500 per person for a 7 night cruise.) People who don't consume a lot of alcohol on a regular bases generally won't buy them, and will pay as they go. Individual drinks aren't cheap either. A frozen drink usually runs about $15. A cocktail runs between $10 and $13.
Exactly. RCCL is not known as a 'party boat' cruise line. But yes, shorter 3-4 night 'long weekend' cruises tend to populate with more of a party crowd than full week or longer cruises.
Nope. Absolutely no action on the civil docket since the new motion to dismiss. I'm guessing he's going to wait out the clock and file on the last day. Doesn't seem he has anything else to try and stir up trouble/drama with for the time being.
A cruise line is no place for a 2 year old except maybe Disney.
Whether SA was thrust with the duty of watching Chole or he volunteered, I don't know.
She appeared to be a charming sweet, curious baby and as 2 year olds like to do, they like to explore and run about with nothing holding her interest for long.
IMO he squatted down by the pillar to be at her level. She then toddled over to the wall of windows and he followed. He lifted her up to peer through the only open window. Was he careless how he handled her then, perhaps so. Did he do it in purpose, no way.
He had to be sedated as he was inconsolable. Was he negligent, possibly so.
But the family has lost a child. Their sweet baby girl.
I'd take the sentence and serve the 3 yrs. And RCCL should proceed with a minimal payout and limit the age of children who can cruise to 12. Nothing will bring their sweet daughter back.
The Corona virus is going to hit all the cruiselines hard. Time to get this out of the headlines and allow this family to grieve. No more lawsuits.
I haven't cruised RC in 6 years (I'm disappointed in how I've seen cleanliness and hospitality dwindle.)
And I won't be cruising with them anytime soon, either.
All just my opinion.
Whether SA was thrust with the duty of watching Chole or he volunteered, I don't know.
She appeared to be a charming sweet, curious baby and as 2 year olds like to do, they like to explore and run about with nothing holding her interest for long.
IMO he squatted down by the pillar to be at her level. She then toddled over to the wall of windows and he followed. He lifted her up to peer through the only open window. Was he careless how he handled her then, perhaps so. Did he do it in purpose, no way.
He had to be sedated as he was inconsolable. Was he negligent, possibly so.
But the family has lost a child. Their sweet baby girl.
I'd take the sentence and serve the 3 yrs. And RCCL should proceed with a minimal payout and limit the age of children who can cruise to 12. Nothing will bring their sweet daughter back.
The Corona virus is going to hit all the cruiselines hard. Time to get this out of the headlines and allow this family to grieve. No more lawsuits.
I haven't cruised RC in 6 years (I'm disappointed in how I've seen cleanliness and hospitality dwindle.)
And I won't be cruising with them anytime soon, either.
All just my opinion.
SaguaroSpirit
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IIRC SA refused sedation?
They are literally in the process of adding water slides and other child friendly attractions to their ships. According to some sources over 40% of cruise passengers in North America cruise with children under 18. Restricting children below 12 would do more harm to their business than the coronavirus is ever gonna do. We've cruised with our children since our youngest was 2 years old. Taking your kids on a cruise is no more dangerous then taking them to Disney World.
As of today there are 4 comments on this story. All claiming responsibility lies with SA.
He was not sedated. This comes directly from the statement of the cruise ship doctor. The only ones who were sedated were KW and Grandma Mary
Wiegand Prelim Response to Dismiss 4.pdf
**edit, I don't know if Mary is SA's wife or not
neesaki
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Why do you think they should get any money from RCCL? IMO RC doesn’t owe them a dime. If anything, I think the Wiegands should pay RCs attorney fees for dragging them through this mess.
neesaki
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I think SAs wife is Patricia / Patty.
Safetybug
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Thanks for sharing! So I looked up South Bend Tribune on their FACEBOOK page, and that same article there has 126 comments so far. A growing number of commentators adamantly see SA as culpable/guilty. Someone even posted a link there to the La Comay video. You can sense who has/hasn’t seen it, imo. Also a poster there says SA and “wife” Patty has moved out of their town of Valparaiso since the tragedy.
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I was referring to Disney Cruises.
Whatever $$$? Safety Improvements?
--- KSW & AW would have to proceed to trial against cruise line to determine "whatever money" they would get. So each side would already have incurred legal fees, court costs, other expenses, e.g., expert witnesses, etc.
--- Jury would have to find RCL's negligence as the proximate cause of Chloe's death.
--- Parents would have to be awarded substantial damages.
-------If jury award was $ X00,000, that may not even cover above expenses for parents, leaving no $ for 'safety improvements.'
-----If jury award was X,000,000 or any multiple, lots of details to negotiate:
---------- Can cruise line deduct from safety improvements amt, the $$$ it paid in defending lawsuit?
--------- Who designs the safety improvements? How much improvement is enough?
--------- Who gives final approval to safety improvements design? Who chooses?
--------- What's the timeline for accomplishing these improvements?
--------- Can cruise line cheap out on safety improvements" say, $3,000,000 instead of 5,000,000?
---------- Are parents entitled to the ^ $2,000,000 difference?
---------- Who monitors cruise line's expenditures to prevent using ^ $2,000,000 difference to install solid gold toilets in officers' quarters, instead of using all $5,000,000 for safer windows?
---Plus numerous other points to hash out.. Those ^ are just a few that quickly came to mind.
Is it likely after going thru trial, that parents & cruise line could agree to terms for above? Doubtful, imo. If not, do they return to court to have judge rule on details? Even w parents' winning a 'plain vanilla' judgment for money damages for wrongful death, possible or likely, RCL would appeal.
Related: Would court be the approp. forum to resolve ^ -- by ordering.def to make certain 'safety improvements?' Another post on that in a bit. jmo.
@Chewy sbm bbm This ^ may sound simple, straight-forward, and seem like a good idea to some ppl, so what would be necessary for ^ to work?
--- KSW & AW would have to proceed to trial against cruise line to determine "whatever money" they would get. So each side would already have incurred legal fees, court costs, other expenses, e.g., expert witnesses, etc.
--- Jury would have to find RCL's negligence as the proximate cause of Chloe's death.
--- Parents would have to be awarded substantial damages.
-------If jury award was $ X00,000, that may not even cover above expenses for parents, leaving no $ for 'safety improvements.'
-----If jury award was X,000,000 or any multiple, lots of details to negotiate:
---------- Can cruise line deduct from safety improvements amt, the $$$ it paid in defending lawsuit?
--------- Who designs the safety improvements? How much improvement is enough?
--------- Who gives final approval to safety improvements design? Who chooses?
--------- What's the timeline for accomplishing these improvements?
--------- Can cruise line cheap out on safety improvements" say, $3,000,000 instead of 5,000,000?
---------- Are parents entitled to the ^ $2,000,000 difference?
---------- Who monitors cruise line's expenditures to prevent using ^ $2,000,000 difference to install solid gold toilets in officers' quarters, instead of using all $5,000,000 for safer windows?
---Plus numerous other points to hash out.. Those ^ are just a few that quickly came to mind.
Is it likely after going thru trial, that parents & cruise line could agree to terms for above? Doubtful, imo. If not, do they return to court to have judge rule on details? Even w parents' winning a 'plain vanilla' judgment for money damages for wrongful death, possible or likely, RCL would appeal.
Related: Would court be the approp. forum to resolve ^ -- by ordering.def to make certain 'safety improvements?' Another post on that in a bit. jmo.
Laria Rivera
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According to David Begnaud of CBS -
BREAKING: Sam Anello, the Indiana grandpa charged with negligent homicide after his granddaughter fell from his hands aboard a cruise ship in Puerto Rico will plead guilty in a deal offered by prosecutors.
It’s on his Twitter account @DavidBegnaud
BREAKING: Sam Anello, the Indiana grandpa charged with negligent homicide after his granddaughter fell from his hands aboard a cruise ship in Puerto Rico will plead guilty in a deal offered by prosecutors.
It’s on his Twitter account @DavidBegnaud
BrownRice
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The li
Local WSBT is reporting the same on their FB page. There is no link to a story. Also says he will face no jail time, just probation.
Jax49
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Thank you.
Deal: no jail time
No admission to the facts
Probation served in Indiana
Why Sue? Ask for Injunction? Improve Window Safety?
1. Complaint filed in court against RCL asks for unspecified amt. of monetary damages. If parents were really “only suing to protect other children” why ask for $$$? Why not--
--- Seek an injunction, a court order requiring def. RCL to install safer windows?
---Lobby Congress for legislation mandating safer ship window specifications? After all, RCL’s installation of safer windows on Fr/Seas (or all its fleet) does not ’protect other children’ on other cruise line’s ships. That is, if ‘protecting other children’ is their goal.
--- Start organization to educate cruisers about window safety? <<& reckless relatives. Sarc>>
Do we believe parents’ words:
--- they utter in interviews/articles, saying they want safer ships, or
--- in their Complaint, asking for $$$?
2. Ask court for injunction to order RCL to install safer windows on Fr/Seas? Would/should/could a US Dist. Court issue such an order?
Even if parents did seek an injunction ordering RCL to make the safety improvements, it is not particularly workable as noted in my ^ post. Practically speaking, it would force two opposing parties to continue dealing w each other over differences possibly for a period of years.
Guessing court would deflect, saying such safety mandates should come from Congress, not the court's place to write legislation.
Off the cuff, I cannot think of any personal injury or wrongful death lawsuit in which a court has ordered a private defendant to make extensive improvements to def's property, but I may overlooking it/them.
Maybe our verified attorney(s) will weigh in, esp re issue 2.
@Chewy sbm bbm
1. Complaint filed in court against RCL asks for unspecified amt. of monetary damages. If parents were really “only suing to protect other children” why ask for $$$? Why not--
--- Seek an injunction, a court order requiring def. RCL to install safer windows?
---Lobby Congress for legislation mandating safer ship window specifications? After all, RCL’s installation of safer windows on Fr/Seas (or all its fleet) does not ’protect other children’ on other cruise line’s ships. That is, if ‘protecting other children’ is their goal.
--- Start organization to educate cruisers about window safety? <<& reckless relatives. Sarc>>
Do we believe parents’ words:
--- they utter in interviews/articles, saying they want safer ships, or
--- in their Complaint, asking for $$$?
2. Ask court for injunction to order RCL to install safer windows on Fr/Seas? Would/should/could a US Dist. Court issue such an order?
Even if parents did seek an injunction ordering RCL to make the safety improvements, it is not particularly workable as noted in my ^ post. Practically speaking, it would force two opposing parties to continue dealing w each other over differences possibly for a period of years.
Guessing court would deflect, saying such safety mandates should come from Congress, not the court's place to write legislation.
Off the cuff, I cannot think of any personal injury or wrongful death lawsuit in which a court has ordered a private defendant to make extensive improvements to def's property, but I may overlooking it/them.
Maybe our verified attorney(s) will weigh in, esp re issue 2.
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