GUILTY IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #9 *NO JAIL*

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lonetraveler said:
This is ridiculous! On a ship any adult has plenty of opportunities to hold a child over a railing or up to and into a window. Is a ship suppose to encase an entire ship in a capsule so that dumb and reckless adults can't drop children into a dock or ocean?
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Exactly what I was thinking. What are they going to do about stupid adults holding babies over the ships railings now? This whole thing has me fuming all over again. :mad:
 
neesaki said:
Exactly what I was thinking. What are they going to do about stupid adults holding babies over the ships railings now? This whole thing has me fuming all over again. :mad:
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You can’t make the entire world idiot-proof.

I remember in 2007 just a few weeks after I returned home from hiking in Grand Canyon a little 4 year old girl fell to her death. She fell approximately 400 feet near Mather Point.

Several reports mentioned that the parents had been warned that the child was too close to the edge before the tragedy occurred.

After the tragedy there was a public outcry that Grand Canyon was dangerous because there was no railing or fences around it.

If you have ever been to Grand Canyon you know that it would be impossible to fence the entire canyon and make it child-safe. Even if the canyon was somehow fenced in you know that people would climb over the fence for selfies on the edge, or hold children up over the railing.
 
neesaki said:
Exactly what I was thinking. What are they going to do about stupid adults holding babies over the ships railings now? This whole thing has me fuming all over again. :mad:
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And what about rooms with balconies? Do all cruise lines have to remove every single possible way a passenger could behave stupidly? No more balconies, no more open decks. And get rid of the alcohol. And maybe ban passengers who are color blind, lol.

As far as I know the only case of someone dropping a child out a ship’s open window is this one so a once in a million occurrence, probably multiple millions if you consider how many people have taken cruises over the years.
 
IceIce9 said:
You can’t make the entire world idiot-proof.

I remember in 2007 just a few weeks after I returned home from hiking in Grand Canyon a little 4 year old girl fell to her death. She fell approximately 400 feet near Mather Point.

Several reports mentioned that the parents had been warned that the child was too close to the edge before the tragedy occurred.

After the tragedy there was a public outcry that Grand Canyon was dangerous because there was no railing or fences around it.

If you have ever been to Grand Canyon you know that it would be impossible to fence the entire canyon and make it child-safe. Even if the canyon was somehow fenced in you know that people would climb over the fence for selfies on the edge, or hold children up over the railing.
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We are always seeing news where a child is injured and/or killed due to parent's recklessness. I'm still fuming about the gorilla killed because a parent failed to secure their child.
 
One reason (for me, ymmv) this case angers me is that some aspects of the story seem unbelievable and more like a litany of excuses than actions from a reasonable person.

For example, Anello hoisted Chloe onto the railing because he said she couldn’t reach the window to bang on from the floor. I couldn’t see any barrier that prevented her from banging on the lower window.

Anello stuck his head out the window yet couldn’t see the metal window frame or feel fresh air. Neither has anything to do with color blindness IMO.

The family ignored that Chloe was running around the bar area to the window, not the children’s play area. Why she needed to annoy adults at the bar trying to relax by banging on glass is beyond my understanding.

IOW nearly every excuse used to take the blame off Anello is questionable IMO. To me it feels more like a strategy than the truth. MOO only.
 
 
lonetraveler said:
Sorry about the photos of two boys sitting on the balcony rail posted without a link. Can't get the link to post correctly. Will try again. I hate my new computer.

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Their parents should be banned from future cruises.

You know the parents would probably sue if their child or children fell even though the parents were disregarding the rules. JMO
 
The family just isn't letting go, are they? Even though the grandfather pleaded guilty to negligent manslaughter, even though the video clearly shows him lifting little Chloe up onto the windowsill (have the parents seen that video yet, BTW?) they are still trying to go after a big payday by trying to hold the cruise line responsible. I suppose they are counting on a jury feeling very sorry for parents who lost their young child, but I am hoping the jury has common sense and puts the blame squarely where it belongs - on the reckless grandfather.
 
GeorgiaRai said:
Cruise ship death of Granger toddler reexamined as lawsuit reopens
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Unbelievable. And the Wiegands' attorney is still claiming the window was in a children's play area, when the video clearly showed that it was a cocktail lounge, with a bar, bar stools and small tables where adults were drinking. Chloe was the only child in the area. The window was about five feet off the ground, far above any toddler's head, and there was a safety bar in front of it to prevent people from leaning out too far. The only way a child could have gotten to that window is if an adult lifted her up and over the safety bar, which is what happened.
 
Montrealaise said:
The family just isn't letting go, are they? Even though the grandfather pleaded guilty to negligent manslaughter, even though the video clearly shows him lifting little Chloe up onto the windowsill (have the parents seen that video yet, BTW?) they are still trying to go after a big payday by trying to hold the cruise line responsible. I suppose they are counting on a jury feeling very sorry for parents who lost their young child, but I am hoping the jury has common sense and puts the blame squarely where it belongs - on the reckless grandfather.
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There are two separate issues and courts at play here: Criminal and Civil.

First, the grandfather was rightfully charged for his criminal actions that caused the death of another, and he plead guilty to the charges in criminal court.

However, his criminal charges have nothing to do with a Civil action for wrongful death where who may claim on behalf of the decedent, when, the elements of a claim, and what damages may be claimed and/or awarded, are each strictly defined by Federal and State Statutes.

Unlike the criminal Court, a Civil Court views a wrongful death suit in the eyes of the decedent and the duty owed to the decedent, as if they were alive.

In this case, reportedly-- Chloe c/o her Estate made three negligence claims against RC where the U.S. Appellate Court ruled on July 11, 2023 that 2 of the 3 claims met the test to be heard in Civil Court and decided upon by a jury.

In the higher Court's decision, by eliminating one of the negligence claims, it recognized the role the grandfather played in Chloe's death, but also ruled that RC doesn't necessarily have clean hands, and this is a decision for a jury.

To be clear, this decision wasn't made in a vacuum but after three judges reviewed the evidence. IMO, both the criminal and civil process should be equally respected.

ETA: Unfortunately, the Per Curium decision by the 11th US Appellate Court was unpublished.

Unpublished Opinions Log | Eleventh Circuit | United States Court of Appeals

www.ca11.uscourts.gov www.ca11.uscourts.gov
 
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Montrealaise said:
The family just isn't letting go, are they? Even though the grandfather pleaded guilty to negligent manslaughter, even though the video clearly shows him lifting little Chloe up onto the windowsill (have the parents seen that video yet, BTW?) they are still trying to go after a big payday by trying to hold the cruise line responsible. I suppose they are counting on a jury feeling very sorry for parents who lost their young child, but I am hoping the jury has common sense and puts the blame squarely where it belongs - on the reckless grandfather.
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It’s truly disgusting. The only party responsible for Chloe’s death is the grandfather. Unless Chloe’s mother wants to hold herself responsible for leaving Chloe in the care of a foolish moron.
Either way, That poor baby girl never had a chance.
 
mickey2942 said:
I don't see how this will go forward, especially since the grandfather was pled guilty.

The parents seem to have a better civil case against the grandfather. Rather than the cruise ship.
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The Court's ruling disagrees with OP.

Three judges reviewed the evidence, and unanimously ruled last July there was merit for 2 of 3 claims to go to trial for a decision by a jury.

In other words, by disallowing one of the 3 claims alleged, the Court recognized the grandfather's negligence.
 
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