IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

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BetteDavisEyes said:
The attorney had never met SA or any other family member, so how did he know whether or not Grandpa had been drinking or wasn't a drinker? IIRC, during a media interview, the attorney was not asked about alcohol/drinking - he volunteered it. Why the need to get that out right away? And, why did the LE family member advise SA not to take a breathalizer?
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He volunteered it because they are filing a civil lawsuit against the cruise line, which, of course, will claim the grandfather was drinking and therefore responsible for the child's death.

JMO
 
MyBelle said:
He volunteered it because they are filing a civil lawsuit against the cruise line, which, of course, will claim the grandfather was drinking and therefore responsible for the child's death.

JMO
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Cruise ships have so many cameras that they will be able to show everything the grandfather ate and drank from the time he boarded the ship. The truth, whatever it may be, will come out.
 
gitana1 said:
Allowing a child to bang on glass walls is annoying but not close to negligence.
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Legal viewpoint and comments bc of my background:
This entire post is what POTENTIALLY is the basis of the tragedy. Disclaimer in that none of these are proven facts, and should not be taken as fact until proven. Maybe maybe and maybe.

This may all be based on lack of discipline.
Bang on a toy drum at home. Do you let a toddler bang on the dinner table with a cup? Bang on sidewalk with a rock? Pull a puppy’s tail? If an adult doesn’t do it, or shouldn’t do it, it’s not acceptable social behavior. And it usually starts early on.
Why don’t you use seatbelts? Why do you speed? Do you feel laws don’t apply to you? Or do you have aging issues that need to be addressed?

These people appear to be law abiding, upstanding parents, except that they are related to a grandpa that isn’t law abiding in some areas. And they appear to allow gp to be free wheeling in their lives. This isn’t the first glass pounding by the toddler. Pics at brother’s hockey games have been on msm. Who was at the hockey games and allowed Chloe to get up to the glass enclosure, ostensibly to bang on the glass? Why isn’t she in a seat? Or have an adult standing by her?

GP’s seatbelt (as reported here) non-use record indicates disregard of safety LAWS. Multiple times. Speeding is disregard of LAWS. His reported records are disregard of SAFETY LAWS. If you disregard safety LAWS, what safety PRECAUTIONS do you disregard? Apparently, many. Why let a toddler bang on glass? What if glass not strong enough to withstand toddlers’ banging? Glass breaks. Duh. If safety glass, it breaks into pebbles. Old glass breaks into sharp shards. What are you thinking????? Oh! I’m sorry, you’re NOT thinking safety! Are you? Perhaps there is some physical brain issue? Undiagnosed?

What if every toddler in the hockey stadium was at the glass enclosure and pounding on it????? I’m pretty sure there were other toddlers attending the hockey game. There were no other toddlers pictured standing by Chloe at the glass enclosure.

If the parents had tried repeatedly to stop toddler’s glass banging, and told gp to stop, too, I’d be inclined to be sympathetic. Toddlers can be a handful.
Don’t misunderstand me. I’m mortified that Chloe died in the manner she died. Sick to my insides. And I’m SO sorry for the family. I can’t think of anything worse except kidnapping, sexual assault of a toddler.
But, don’t try to pass the buck off on another party. Person. Entity. Take responsibility for your actions. Or inactions. Until we ALL take responsibility for what we do, nothing will change.
IMO, parents AND grandpa are all responsible. This wasn’t the first time she was allowed to pound on glass. So what that she liked to pound on glass. Little ones like to do all kinds of things. They’re growing up. Learning. Experiencing the world. Every age learns by listening, watching, experiencing. Adults set limits. Based on age, maturity, intelligence of the child. Chloe probably slipped out of his grasp. For that, I’m so sorry. But she never should have been lifted up, past the railing to be close to the window for any reason, let alone to allow her to bang on it. Railing is a safety precaution that he disregarded. The disregarded safety precaution was just one more in gp’s long record. Unfortunately, this time, he wasn’t by himself without a seatbelt or speeding.
 
LietKynes said:
Parents of Chloe Wiegand stand by her grandfather after he is charged in her death | Daily Mail Online




    • Parents Kimberly, 36, and Alan Wiegand, 41, plan to sue the liner for 'inexplicably' leaving a window open in a family play area
    • Family lawyer Michael Winkleman suggested Puerto Rican authorities may have 'ulterior motives' for charging Anello instead of blaming the cruise line
    • He told DailyMail.com the family understands 'that it was an accident and that [Anello] thought this was a wall of windows'
    • Winkleman added: 'What surprised me is that there was an effort to try to have this case go forward in an effort to try to help Royal Caribbean
Looks like the parents might go ahead with the lawsuit ?

I get it that S.A. was the step-grandpa; and that people should be loyal to their relatives.
But I personally couldn't forget and forgive the negligent death of my baby.
No way , no how. Impossible.
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Of course they will proceed with the lawsuit. I look forward to learning what the 'ulterior motives' might be.

Evidently, the parents do not believe the grandfather was negligent. I think they are more upset over the open window near a play area.

JMO
 
MyBelle said:
Of course they will proceed with the lawsuit. I look forward to learning what the 'ulterior motives' might be.

Evidently, the parents do not believe the grandfather was negligent. I think they are more upset over the open window near a play area.

JMO
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The open window was higher than any child could have reached. And it wasn’t really near a play area, that is something the lawyer stated.

Again,we need the original thread brought back because there were pictures of how far the window was from the play area.
 
Sarahlou said:
I still don't understand why they are suing the cruise company. Well I do, they want someone else to blame imo. But I don't think the company at were at fault at all.
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People who sue for wrongful death are very angry and the lawsuit is an outlet for their anger. It is rarely about the money. The parents of the little boy who was attacked by an alligator at Disney didn't have to sue. Disney stepped up. Today, those still grieving parents have turned around to financially help the families with sick children. Disney built a memorial to their son at Disney World.

Compare that to this case where the cruise line still refuses to hand over the security video to the family.

JMO
 
MyBelle said:
BBM. Do you have a link for this because I sure don't remember police saying this.

I don't believe it is fair to generalize that the man had been drinking. Not all elderly people drink. If he was holding the baby and standing there, where exactly was his drink?

JMO
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He is far from elderly. He is in his 50s. And this is MOO as I stated. I didn't say he was holding a drink at the same time he was with the baby.

I read the reports of the police in the Spanish online newspapers. Repeatedly. They stated 2 things from the beginning and never changed their statements. 1. He exposed the child to the void in an act of games. 2. He was rocking the child.

I understand sympathy for what this family has been through but the facts are whatever they are and I do hope they will come out if this is going to be in the news. Otherwise, let it not be in the news and let the authorities deal with the family quietly. Main thing is, the little girl was the victim, not the family. The step-grandfather has a history of being careless as others here are pointing out. No one is saying he intentionally set out to do harm. But MOO is he was a lot more careless than what is known.
 
MyBelle said:
That's in the U.S. This case is in Puerto Rico and I'm not familiar with their laws or how their justice system works. In the English language, murder is a synonym for homicide. By definition, it is death caused by another person. I'd like to know what Puerto Rico's definition of the charge means and what is the penalty.

Spanish is the official language of Puerto Rico and I'm assuming the trial will be in Spanish.

JMO
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BBM

No, murder is NOT a synonym for homicide. Homicide is the killing of another person, justified or not. Murder requires intent. Anyone who has spent time on WS threads should understand that distinction.

“Homicide is simply the killing of one person by another. It may or may not be illegal. Soldiers in battle commit homicide without committing a crime. Citizens kill intruders without committing a crime. So, what is it that separates a legal homicide from an illegal murder? And, what makes one killing a murder and another a manslaughter?

Murder is a homicide committed with “malice aforethought.” That doesn’t mean it is a malicious killing. Malice aforethought is the common law way of saying that it is an unjustified killing. And, for a killing to be a murder, there typically has to be either an intent to kill, or, at minimum, conduct so reckless that it is punishable as murder.”
BBM
What's the difference between homicide, murder and manslaughter? - Murphy Law Office
 
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Medstudies said:
Really! There was great stuff there.
I just found the video of the deck tour that the WS member had posted.

eta, just noticed there is a link on the prior page for it too. Leaving just in case
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LOOK AT THE COLOR DIFFERENCES between open and closed windows.
Mom was saying in 30 secs of 6 minute interview I watched this am, GP kept saying “I thought there was glass over and over” at time it happened.
If he really believed that, let’s presume he did, then I mentioned in another post just now perhaps he has some type of brain problems. At his age, that could be true. Maybe undiagnosed. Like early dementia. I’m not a Med person by any means, but I’m getting up there in age. And watch myself closely. For signs of mental decline. I’m not afraid to seek medical care for it. Or admit it. But others, I suppose, don’t want to admit problems showing age. Especially, if they continue to work and need the employment.
 
IceIce9 said:
The open window was higher than any child could have reached. And it wasn’t really near a play area, that is something the lawyer stated.

Again,we need the original thread brought back because there were pictures of how far the window was from the play area.
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Children are great climbers. And it was adjacent to the play area, I saw photos plus someone posted a diagram of the area's layout.

JMO
 
Medstudies said:
Who equated one thing to another besides you right here? I just posted his public records.

Besides: Past behavior is indeed a pretty solid predictor of future behavior.

He has shown disregard for safety rules and laws. He is on record for past reckless behavior.

Let me be clear as a bell for you: I did not even remotely insinuate his tickets were equal to homicide and it’s bewildering that you would jump to that conclusion. Just. Wow. SMDH
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Scroll and roll to some posts.
 
P.S. There were numerous links posted here months ago when there were serious threads on this topic, which happened 2 times as this was in the news. I understand why the threads were deleted but it's a lot of effort to go back and look everything up again. You can search ElVocero.com for one and then let your browser translate it from Spanish to English. This event had a lot of coverage in July when it happened. Now the most recent news stories just put up one version, but at the time there was a lot posted from cruise-goers and a lot more. Bottom line is there are multiple angles of video of what happened and there are records most likely of what if any alcohol was consumed so that is all that matters as far as the truth. Everyone feels for the whole family but Chloe is the real victim here. I'm not trying to argue with anyone just to be clear here so I hope no one will take it that way. I'm sure a lot of you can relate to the amount of time and thought you put into thinking about a situation like this and we all want to be fair and right to everyone concerned in a tragedy like this.
 
IceIce9 said:
No, there are differences between murder and negligent homicide. Murder means intent to kill.


From uslegal.com

Negligent homicide is the killing of another person through gross negligence or without malice. It often includes death that is the result of the negligent operation of a motor vehicle, which includes the operation of a boat or snowmobile. It is characterized as a death caused by death by conduct that grossly deviated from ordinary care. Negligent homicide may be charged as a lesser-included offense of manslaughter. It is also sometimes referred to as "involuntary manslaughter". State laws vary, so local law should be consulted for specific requirements.

murder: killing a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought (prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way) and with no legal excuse or authority.
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Scroll and roll to some posts.

Edit: No reply or like will ever be good enough.
 
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sl222 said:
He is far from elderly. He is in his 50s. And this is MOO as I stated. I didn't say he was holding a drink at the same time he was with the baby.

I read the reports of the police in the Spanish online newspapers. Repeatedly. They stated 2 things from the beginning and never changed their statements. 1. He exposed the child to the void in an act of games. 2. He was rocking the child.

I understand sympathy for what this family has been through but the facts are whatever they are and I do hope they will come out if this is going to be in the news. Otherwise, let it not be in the news and let the authorities deal with the family quietly. Main thing is, the little girl was the victim, not the family. The step-grandfather has a history of being careless as others here are pointing out. No one is saying he intentionally set out to do harm. But MOO is he was a lot more careless than what is known.
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I do believe the parents, siblings and grandparents of the dead child are very much victims. Just because the grandfather has been charged in Puerto Rico doesn't mean he's guilty.

The grandfather looks elderly to me but I sure don't believe he dangled the child out the window playing some kind of game.

JMO
 
IceIce9 said:
Cruise ships have so many cameras that they will be able to show everything the grandfather ate and drank from the time he boarded the ship. The truth, whatever it may be, will come out.
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Scroll and roll to some posts. Not worth the hassle to reply.

edit: scroll and roll to some beginning posts. Not necessarily your answer, Iceice9.
Actually, I completely agree with your reply.
 
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