IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand

[LietKynes]

The step-grandfather is 51 years old.
And that news reports often make a lot of mistakes (do they ever).

Snipped for focus

Agreed.

And, 51 is not elderly.
And there was nothing said about his having dementia before this; so I wonder if the lawyer will trot it out now if nothing else sticks to the proverbial wall ?
Have to make up something that will ensure a pay day.

The lawyer, Winkleman, is dishonest; imo.
Here are two older links and a recent one.
Apparently, he IS representing the family ; not sure why I thought he might have declined.

Royal Caribbean cruise ship death: Chloe Wiegand's family blames cruise ship for toddler's fall - CBS News
".....Instead, he says, a window on the Royal Caribbean Cruise was left open in a play area, and the grandfather did not realize it until it was too late.
"We've all had that experience where someone walks into a glass sliding door thinking it's not there," Winkleman said. "This is the inverse of that."
But Winkleman says it's Royal Caribbean that needs to answer questions. "Why would you ever in a kids play area put windows that passengers can open?" he said, adding "It was reasonable… to think that this was all glass because from his perspective it was all glass."
Emph mine
Except is was an open window at or above chest height.
SA would've been astute enough to recognize a window .
So the sliding glass door makes zero sense.
Maybe the atty. could go look for himself and see that the play area was not next to the windows ; and the windows were set higher than the railing in front of them ?

Attorney: Girl fell to death from open window on cruise ship
"....An 18-month-old Indiana girl who fell to her death from the 11th story of a cruise ship in Puerto Rico plunged from a window inexplicably left open in a children’s play area, the family’s attorney said Tuesday...."
"...But Michael Winkleman, a Miami attorney who’s representing the girl’s family, said Tuesday that “the story is not as it had originally been portrayed in the media.”
Not true. The windows in the child's play area was originally put forth by the family and the lawyer.
The media's first accounts said that the ships' staff observed SA holding and dangling Chloe outside the open window.
Royal Caribbean toddler death: Grandfather charged over cruise ship fall - BBC News
"...He (Winkleman) said the fall was "clearly a tragic accident" and that the family's goal is for something like this to never happen again..."
To pursue a settlement that you know is falsely blaming the cruise line sounds as if the goal is money -- and not to ensure that the ship is secured in bubble-wrap against any future passengers who might hold their child out of an open window. This is ridiculous.

From above BBC link :
"....He(Winkleman) told the BBC in a statement at the time that Chloe's grandfather did not drop her, but she fell from an open pane that should have been closed securely.
"The family needs answers as to why there would be an open window in a wall full of fixed windows in a kids' play area? Why would you have the danger without any warning, sign, or notice?"

Looking at the photo with the crime scene tape--- there is no kid's play area or equipment/splash pad, etc. in sight.
SA would've had to step under or over the railing and hold her to above shoulder height to hold her out the window.

In the previous threads ... it was mentioned that the lower windows are fixed and shut, only the top ones open for passengers to enjoy some fresh air !
There might be some video of the ship and the exact area.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

I’ve started a conversation with a mod/staff member asking for the old thread(s) to be brought back. I’m not sure that my alerting on a post last night was seen. We really need that info. IIRC there were two threads that were shut down, or one was shut down, brought back and shut down again. Although there was some arguing, we were never warned before the removal, so I suspect other issues were at play since we were almost unanimously against the lawsuit. I know of at least two threads over the years shut down at family request.
JMO

Hit “ignore” (Bettedaviseyes) or scroll and roll past any wannabe argumentative posts. That way Chloe thread will stay open and mods will be happy. It’s easy to read which posts/posters want to pick a fight. Don’t bite on the bait. And we’ll all be able to keep up with the thread.

 

[LietKynes]

Excellent idea about having a resource thread.

Yes !

We need a media thread !!!
Can add some videos of the windows and deck as well.
Any PR videos/interviews ?
Even a non-English tour of the deck, children's area, railing, etc.

In past threads, someone mentioned that the ship 'moved' or 'rolled', and that's why she fell.
Silly... as the ship was in port and docked.
Unsure if it was the lawyer or family who said this.

There has been more than one account of what happened.

 

[Lilibet]

My burning question: would there even be criminal charges if the family weren’t pursuing a liability suit against Royal Caribbean? I don’t think

Is it really fair to imply that Puerto Rico LE would bow to hypothetical pressure from Royal Caribbean to file charges against the grandfather because of the lawsuit? That implies corruption on the part of both Royal Caribbean and LE...it doesn’t seem right IMO to jump to that conclusion, even though it can and occasionally does happen (in any part of the U.S.). But it’s the exception, rather than the rule.

 

[LietKynes]

Hit “ignore” or scroll and roll past any wannabe argumentative posts. That way Chloe thread will stay open and mods will be happy. It’s easy to read which posts/posters want to pick a fight. Don’t bite on the bait. And we’ll all be able to keep up with the thread.

Thanks for the head's up.
Great minds think alike and all that.....

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I heard this report on WWJ radio in the car on my return trip home from a medical appointment.

Grandfather Charged With Negligent Homicide In Toddler's Cruise Ship Death

 

[Lilibet]

I heard this report on WWJ radio in the car on my return trip home from a medical appointment.

Grandfather Charged With Negligent Homicide In Toddler's Cruise Ship Death

It’s interesting that SA had apparently returned to Puerto Rico. I wonder how that was arranged.

“Anello was released from custody in the Puerto Rican capital of San Juan on an $80,000 bond, a spokeswoman for Puerto Rico's justice department said Tuesday. He is due to appear in court there on Nov. 20, and it wasn't immediately clear if he would be allowed to return home in the meantime.”

 

[Medstudies]

Another early report: Chloe Wiegand: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

...“Port Authority spokesman Jose Carmona told CNN that the girl was in the dining hall playing with her grandfather on deck 11 of the ship when the tragedy occurred. Carmona said one window pane to the hall was open and Wiegand’s grandfather sat the girl in the window. He lost his balance which caused Wiegand to fall. Carmona said, “Sadly, she died on impact.”...

 

[Medstudies]

Yes !

We need a media thread !!!
Can add some videos of the windows and deck as well.
Any PR videos/interviews ?
Even a non-English tour of the deck, children's area, railing, etc.

In past threads, someone mentioned that the ship 'moved' or 'rolled', and that's why she fell.
Silly... as the ship was in port and docked.
Unsure if it was the lawyer or family who said this.

There has been more than one account of what happened.

this one should be added: IMO

Muere niña al caer de crucero en San Juan

 

[Lilibet]

Another early report: Chloe Wiegand: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

...“Port Authority spokesman Jose Carmona told CNN that the girl was in the dining hall playing with her grandfather on deck 11 of the ship when the tragedy occurred. Carmona said one window pane to the hall was open and Wiegand’s grandfather sat the girl in the window. He lost his balance which caused Wiegand to fall. Carmona said, “Sadly, she died on impact.”...

This initial report has always made sense to me. If Chloe was wiggling or leaning forward, it would be easy to lose his balance and his grip. That’s why sitting her in the open window (or placing her anywhere near it) is negligence. No one who is safety conscious would even consider doing that.

 

[Lilibet]

this one should be added: IMO

Muere niña al caer de crucero en San Juan

Can someone run this through google translate please. I’m too lazy.

 

[Kindred]

That's great. Why hasn't the cruise line turned the video over to the family? The family's attorney was publicly asking for them months ago.

JMO

The family stated they did not want to view the video.
There seems to be a lot of misinformation in this case.

See that's also part of the rub. The family keeps making a big deal about RC not giving them the video, but when RC offered to give them a viewing of it so they could see and understand what happened they refused. But it looks good for the family to beat their chests and claim the cruise line is being heartless and won't hand over possible evidence of a crime in the middle of an investigation

SA also declined to make an official statement to the investigation before the family left PR. He cooperated just enough to not be obstructing but was of no help to any of it.

As for why RC would only let them view it and not burn them a copy that's standard practice actually. Especially if there is a police investigation going on. They turned it over to the authorities and then were probably waiting for the all-clear from them. If the family is serious about suing they can get their copy through discovery.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

It’s interesting that SA had apparently returned to Puerto Rico. I wonder how that was arranged.

“Anello was released from custody in the Puerto Rican capital of San Juan on an $80,000 bond, a spokeswoman for Puerto Rico's justice department said Tuesday. He is due to appear in court there on Nov. 20, and it wasn't immediately clear if he would be allowed to return home in the meantime.”

To his credit, he is doing what he is supposed to do. He’s not skirting the charges.

 

[neesaki]

Can someone run this through google translate please. I’m too lazy.

Muere niña al caer de crucero en San Juan

Girl dies after cruising in San Juan

The facts were reported at 4:27 pm, confirmed the Press Office of the Police Bureau.

“It is an American family where the grandfather shows the girl through a window… the girl falls to the precipice and dies… At the moment (the Division of) Homicides is in place; The family could not be interviewed. It is a very strong scene, very unfortunate and tragic ... at one point, one of his grandparents, it seems, in an act of games, exposes the girl to the void and falls from his hands, ”said the secretary in dismay of the Department of Public Security, Elmer Román.

The Secretary of State, Luis G. Rivera Marín, also arrived at the boat to help with any procedure.

According to preliminary information, the girl fell from a lower balcony to the deck, hit the ship and hit the pavement. Immediately, according to witnesses, the thunder of the coup was heard and heartbreaking screams of a woman alerting the fatality.

The family of the child from the state of Indiana, composed of paternal and maternal grandparents, their parents and an older brother, among other relatives, received medical and spiritual assistance, Roman added when he regretted the situation.

Part of the cruise ship's crew, as well as the passengers, were transferred to an area away from the incident, which concluded the investigation of the painful scene.

In the afternoon, the ship's captain - through the loudspeakers - gave his condolences and announced that they would leave with a delay. It was not specified at what time they would sail, since the authorization of the relevant agencies was lacking.

Prosecutor Ivette Nieves was conducting the rigorous interviews with the passengers who observed the sad scene, and the relatives who were present and will be making arrangements to occupy the boat's security cameras as evidence.

 

[Lilibet]

To his credit, he is doing what he is supposed to do. He’s not skirting the charges.

I hope it is voluntary cooperation on his part. However, he could have been extradited when the arrest warrant was issued.

 

[Lilibet]

Muere niña al caer de crucero en San Juan

Girl dies after cruising in San Juan

The facts were reported at 4:27 pm, confirmed the Press Office of the Police Bureau.

“It is an American family where the grandfather shows the girl through a window… the girl falls to the precipice and dies… At the moment (the Division of) Homicides is in place; The family could not be interviewed. It is a very strong scene, very unfortunate and tragic ... at one point, one of his grandparents, it seems, in an act of games, exposes the girl to the void and falls from his hands, ”said the secretary in dismay of the Department of Public Security, Elmer Román.

The Secretary of State, Luis G. Rivera Marín, also arrived at the boat to help with any procedure.

According to preliminary information, the girl fell from a lower balcony to the deck, hit the ship and hit the pavement. Immediately, according to witnesses, the thunder of the coup was heard and heartbreaking screams of a woman alerting the fatality.

The family of the child from the state of Indiana, composed of paternal and maternal grandparents, their parents and an older brother, among other relatives, received medical and spiritual assistance, Roman added when he regretted the situation.

Part of the cruise ship's crew, as well as the passengers, were transferred to an area away from the incident, which concluded the investigation of the painful scene.

In the afternoon, the ship's captain - through the loudspeakers - gave his condolences and announced that they would leave with a delay. It was not specified at what time they would sail, since the authorization of the relevant agencies was lacking.

Prosecutor Ivette Nieves was conducting the rigorous interviews with the passengers who observed the sad scene, and the relatives who were present and will be making arrangements to occupy the boat's security cameras as evidence.

Gracias!

 

[IceIce9]

Sleuthers on this thread are serious readers of invisible ink.
Thank you everyone who has read the hit ignore button or scroll and roll to keep the thread open. Seems to be working.
Any argumentative or useless posts jeopardize all of WS. Not just on this thread.

Sitting in your hands is frustrating. But a thread being closed Is even more frustrating. IMO!

 

[GinaSeikwa]

This grandfather is a middle aged man- in fact he is not much older than Chloé’s father.
And he has a history of reckless criminal infractions.
Maybe his lawyers will be pushing the frail elderly aw shucks grandfather narrative but let’s remember that he is only 51 years old.

 

[LietKynes]

There were also early claims that Grandpa "lost his balance" and that is why he dropped Chloe. The ship was in port during embarkation. When a cruise ship is tied up to a dock, there is no movement of the vessel. What caused SA to lose his balance? If he hadn't been drinking and lost his balance, that could indicate some type of neurological issue. Balance is a major concerns for patients as they age due to the danger of falls. If there are medical concerns that come into play, that will be a consideration for the jury who hears the case.

I think this is the post I was alluding to earlier.
Thanks !
From the other thread (in the past life of the Chloe threads..... ).

Yes.
He 'lost his balance' was one of many theories the family put forth.
Hello.... there was no ship movement.
Poor baby fell onto the wooden or concrete sidewalk outside the ship as it was in port.
So maybe he was drunk as a skunk ?
No offense at all to skunks ---the pet store owner in our city has a descented fur baby , a skunk called "Matilda".

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Sitting in your hands is frustrating. But a thread being closed Is even more frustrating. IMO!

If mods reopened this thread, it wasn’t closed at family’s request.
So, arguing seemed to be the problem.
No responses to argumentative posts, no arguing. Post stays open. Takes 2 to argue. Hard to argue with yourself.