Identified! IN - Hammond, Bones found buried, gold ring, Oct'11 - Francine Carlson

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Cubby said:
CBS2 is reporting the bones may date back 5-10 years. I think it's too soon to determine exactly how old they may be other than to say they've been there a long time.


http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2011/10/12/person-of-interest-identified-in-indiana-bones-mystery/
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I agree, and am waiting to hear something more official about that. I think some of these news reporters might have taken LE's estimate that the bones have been there 'for years' and turned that into a specific number of years that they think that means.

chmiller0904 said:
Just heard on the news.. Channel 5, I believe... The suspect was someone that "stayed" at the Bait Shop??? I am looking for the feed on the NEWS, but haven't found it.
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Cubby said:
I'm not sure what to make out of "stayed at the bait shop". When? Before or after it closed? Was it still known as "the bait shop" to locals long after the placed closed down and was vacant? If that's the case it could mean someone who was known to stay in the building long after it closed down. (snip)
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I'm not sure what to make of that 'stayed at the bait shop' comment, either. It doesn't look like there was an apartment over the bait shop, but maybe there were one or more rooms at the back that someone could live in. Perhaps the crawlspace was under that part of the building?

From what I've found on Google, it looks like an address of 1718-1/2 Indianapolis Blvd does exist, but I don't know if that means there's a separate (living) entrance to the building.

This picture (taken from www.viewofhouse.com) doesn't really tell much, other than giving an idea of what the shop looked like at one time:
 

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MarthaM said:
I'm not sure what to make of that 'stayed at the bait shop' comment, either. It doesn't look like there was an apartment over the bait shop, but maybe there were one or more rooms at the back that someone could live in. Perhaps the crawlspace was under that part of the building?

... it looks like an address of 1718-1/2 Indianapolis Blvd does exist, but I don't know if that means there's a separate (living) entrance to the building...
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I tried looking at the building(s) in Google Earth. I'm not good with fiddling with the controls, so I basically just keep moving my mouse and clicking on things until I find what I want.
If you look at the building from the street (also looking down from above), a few of the buildings on the block have what look to be "houses" (or some other form of small, separate buildings) behind them.

If you have Google Earth on your computer, the building is still up for now (they found the bones while demolishing it). You can also look at satellite/aerial photos from years past. Not sure when the default (or "now") photos get updated.
 
In Sept of 2009, two NWI sisters Jennnifer and Kristen Evans, were murdered, one of them raped. The perp was caught and charged, and has been incarcerated since. His history prior to these murders was rape and sexual assault and a brief history of incarceration. He was from the East Chicago/ Whiting area. Could be the one they are looking at now for this crime. Look up David Alex Flores.
 
MarthaM said:
I agree, and am waiting to hear something more official about that. I think some of these news reporters might have taken LE's estimate that the bones have been there 'for years' and turned that into a specific number of years that they think that means.

I'm not sure what to make of that 'stayed at the bait shop' comment, either. It doesn't look like there was an apartment over the bait shop, but maybe there were one or more rooms at the back that someone could live in. Perhaps the crawlspace was under that part of the building?

From what I've found on Google, it looks like an address of 1718-1/2 Indianapolis Blvd does exist, but I don't know if that means there's a separate (living) entrance to the building.

This picture (taken from www.viewofhouse.com) doesn't really tell much, other than giving an idea of what the shop looked like at one time:
Click to expand...
The other day I found real estate listings that show the property as a four bedroom single family dwelling, over 2500 sq feet. Also, even though you can't really zoom in on the back of the building with google satellite, I think the building was deeper than it appeared from looking at the storefront.
 
Although I cannot confirm, I think this building did have some sort of apartment. I did see the address 1718 1/2 and my sister stated to me (she grew up in whiting) that mostly all of those buildings... Sprint, the bars, and the other commercial buildings do have apartments above them. It is the layout of the town there.

I reverse looked up the 1718 1/2 address and this is what I got..

http://www.whitepages.com/search/FindNearby?street=1718+1/2+indianapolis+blvd&where=whiting+in

Not that any of these folks are involved, just that there is a residence somewhere. Google is inconclusive as far as telling which one is exactly this address.

FYI.. the address of the Sprint Store two doors down is 1714 Indianapolis Blvd. That building does have an apartment over it... this is where the Sprint Store owner lives and there doesn't seem to be a 1714 1/2 so.. who knows!

I'm guessing the building in between them is 1716 Indianapolis and it does have a resident living there, too.. ANYWAY.. F"YI
 
bessie said:
The other day I found real estate listings that show the property as a four bedroom single family dwelling, over 2500 sq feet. Also, even though you can't really zoom in on the back of the building with google satellite, I think the building was deeper than it appeared from looking at the storefront.
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When I googled the 1718 address and went to a real estate listing that came up (I think on realtor.com), the property the link led to was really 1726 or something like that when the page came up, which was the house with 4 BR etc.

I agree that the building probably went pretty far back on the lot.


chmiller0904 said:
Although I cannot confirm, I think this building did have some sort of apartment. I did see the address 1718 1/2 and my sister stated to me (she grew up in whiting) that mostly all of those buildings... Sprint, the bars, and the other commercial buildings do have apartments above them. It is the layout of the town there.

I reverse looked up the 1718 1/2 address and this is what I got..

http://www.whitepages.com/search/FindNearby?street=1718+1/2+indianapolis+blvd&where=whiting+in

Not that any of these folks are involved, just that there is a residence somewhere. Google is inconclusive as far as telling which one is exactly this address.

FYI.. the address of the Sprint Store two doors down is 1714 Indianapolis Blvd. That building does have an apartment over it... this is where the Sprint Store owner lives and there doesn't seem to be a 1714 1/2 so.. who knows!

I'm guessing the building in between them is 1716 Indianapolis and it does have a resident living there, too.. ANYWAY.. F"YI
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Yes, there's an address of 1718-1/2 on Indy Blvd, and it was a residence based on what I saw in the phone book. But I don't know how that fits in with 1718. I'll have to find that again to see what year that was. I also saw some city council minutes that showed that 1716 was approved for demolition in July 2011, but 1718 wasn't mentioned.

Some of my family in Whiting live literally a couple blocks from this location around the corner and I'm sure I've passed this building lots of times. But of course I never really paid attention.
 
chmiller0904 said:
Although I cannot confirm, I think this building did have some sort of apartment. I did see the address 1718 1/2 and my sister stated to me (she grew up in whiting) that mostly all of those buildings... Sprint, the bars, and the other commercial buildings do have apartments above them. It is the layout of the town there.

I reverse looked up the 1718 1/2 address and this is what I got..

http://www.whitepages.com/search/FindNearby?street=1718+1/2+indianapolis+blvd&where=whiting+in

Not that any of these folks are involved, just that there is a residence somewhere. Google is inconclusive as far as telling which one is exactly this address.

FYI.. the address of the Sprint Store two doors down is 1714 Indianapolis Blvd. That building does have an apartment over it... this is where the Sprint Store owner lives and there doesn't seem to be a 1714 1/2 so.. who knows!

I'm guessing the building in between them is 1716 Indianapolis and it does have a resident living there, too.. ANYWAY.. F"YI
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I went looking on the google images specificly for an apartment over top and the Bait shop did not appear to have an apartment over it last week. It may have but when I saw the other building did have one I then noted the Bait shop was not as tall and there were no windows in the front however the back of the bilding looked as it is was part of a yard to a house behind it or rather one the street the parallels it in the back. I guess there could be an apartment but I didnt think so based on Googles street veiw.
 
Soulmagent said:
I went looking on the google images specificly for an apartment over top and the Bait shop did not appear to have an apartment over it last week. It may have but when I saw the other building did have one I then noted the Bait shop was not as tall and there were no windows in the front however the back of the bilding looked as it is was part of a yard to a house behind it or rather one the street the parallels it in the back. I guess there could be an apartment but I didnt think so based on Googles street veiw.
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Maybe the back part is some sort of an apartment. I know what you mean as far as an apartment being above the bait shop.. If you notice, too.. the other buildings all have extra doors on the front of the buildings. Those doors will take you to the upstairs apartment or apartments.. so who knows!
 
The fact that the address is 1718-1/2 means the building is divided into separate units each with its own postal address. I know of many older buildings in New Orleans with fractional addresses where either an apartment is attached to a primary residence, or a residence is attached to a business/store front. It was pretty common in the "olden days" when business and residential properties often co-existed under the same roof. Newer real estate is usually zoned separately as commercial and residential.
 
Soulmagent said:
I went looking on the google images specificly for an apartment over top and the Bait shop did not appear to have an apartment over it last week. It may have but when I saw the other building did have one I then noted the Bait shop was not as tall and there were no windows in the front however the back of the bilding looked as it is was part of a yard to a house behind it or rather one the street the parallels it in the back. I guess there could be an apartment but I didnt think so based on Googles street veiw.
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The rear of the building would have been accessible via the alley behind it.
 
kikid said:
I'm sure this isn't probably connected to this case, but I found it interesting that this man who had owned several properties in the area was found dead in the basement of a property he USED TO OWN, just down the street from where these remains were discovered.

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/whiting/article_634ab915-9b9e-56ba-a430-1eede8528dc1.html
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I was going to post that link & the other link where the two ppl were shot in the same area, but I decided not to being as though it didn't have any sort of connection to this case... However, it does show you that this area is really heading in the wrong direction. Whiting is a smaller community and it has a lot of bars/pubs, etc. They bring in a lot of riff raff. (NOTHING AGAINST TAVERNS)

The areas where the bones were found is no different. There are two pubs on the same block (I believe).. , or the next block down. I have known both bars to be there longer than ten years. We used to joke around and say that if you wanted to go to a bar and hide from your wife, you need to go to Whiting. It will take her two days to find you!!
 
chmiller0904 said:
I was going to post that link & the other link where the two ppl were shot in the same area, but I decided not to being as though it didn't have any sort of connection to this case... However, it does show you that this area is really heading in the wrong direction. Whiting is a smaller community and it has a lot of bars/pubs, etc. They bring in a lot of riff raff. (NOTHING AGAINST TAVERNS)

The areas where the bones were found is no different. There are two pubs on the same block (I believe).. , or the next block down. I have known both bars to be there longer than ten years. We used to joke around and say that if you wanted to go to a bar and hide from your wife, you need to go to Whiting. It will take her two days to find you!!
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I mostly found it interesting that he was killed in the basement of a property he no longer owned at 4 am, why would he be in the basement of a building he no longer owns? and who would know he was there? since the remains were in the crawl space of the Bait shop - it kind of made me go hmmmm.
 
The discussion in this forum and in another article said that Doreen had been dating a police officer. They had always been suspicious of her boyfriend, but nothing ever panned out.

What doesn't make sense though.. The police seemed to have had a suspect, but only needed to identify a victim. (last we heard) they had even made the statement that they were trying to identify a woman that went missing that may have known this subject. INTERESTING?

In the meantime, maybe they found out that this is that Fogle lady and went from there.
 
I'm very doubtful about that post. On October 8th, he/she claims the ID was made, then on the 9th he/she says the ID was made through DNA. That would be a very quick turnaround, and I'm not sure it's even possible with such old remains. Even if it could be done, in later articles, LE could only confirm the remains were female, and that an identification had not yet been made.

Miller said the victim -- believed to be dead at least a decade -- has not yet been identified, but detectives have some clues.
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The only confirmed detail is that the remains -- some of which were wrapped in plastic -- belong to a female. Nawrocki is expect to study the bones and share his findings with police in about a month.
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wow was hoping they knew who the person was so the poor person's family would know what happened to them and they could rest in peace
 
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