Identified! IN - Hammond, Bones found buried, gold ring, Oct'11 - Francine Carlson

[chmiller0904]

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/special-section/coldcase/vmix_ae271200-966a-11de-a9f3-001cc4c03286.html

 

[bessie]

I am wondering about this ring. If there is a cross, or perhaps even a shield, maybe it could be a class ring. A class ring that belonged to a woman that attended a Catholic School??? or a Christian School?

If this is the case, the family will surely be able to identify her by the ring. I am hoping the investigators will post better pics for the public.

Yes, that, and it also reminds me of lapis lazuli and gold jewelry from the Mediterranean region.

 

[dsntslp]

CarlK,
Is it possible for you to compare the size of the skull to the notebook in the background to try and ascertain a size/age? The notebook would be standard 8 1/2 x 11, right? I have great faith in you, lol.

 

[chmiller0904]

Hi Bessie... I did google that jewelry and it certainly does resemble the lapis lazuli rings. Here is a webpage I was looking at..

http://www.lapislazuliworld.com/Lapis_Lazuli_gold_Rings/?page=2

So, they do wear this jewelry in the Mediterranean area? That is interesting, too!

 

[bessie]

Lapis lazuli has been used for thousands of years and is found in jewelry from ancient Eqypt, Greece and throughout Mesopotamia, as well as modern jewelry from those areas. I have a few pieces from Greece, myself. LL is a dark blue opaque stone. The stone in the photo appears to be set in a bezel rather than prongs, which is common for LL jewelry. Another reason I think it's LL is because when I put it in PS, the stone didn't reflect any light, meaning it's opaque and not faceted. See how the gold shines, but the stone appears dull? Of course, it's a poor photo, so I can't be sure. But that's my best guess.

 

[CarlK90245]

CarlK,
Is it possible for you to compare the size of the skull to the notebook in the background to try and ascertain a size/age? The notebook would be standard 8 1/2 x 11, right? I have great faith in you, lol.

I'm not sure which photo with the notebook you are talking about. But even so, I would not attempt to do make those types of precise measurements.

 

[dsntslp]

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.town...fde-b4cf-44d04238f632/4e8f8f48bf482.image.jpg

This picture specifically.
I just thought maybe because the skull and notebook were in such close proximity it was worth a try. TY TY anyway!

 

[MarthaM]

This article was posted this afternoon. Not really any new information, but police returned to the site today for more digging:

http://posttrib.suntimes.com/news/8...urn-to-excavation-site-for-more-evidence.html

Hinojosa said police don’t expect to find the remains of more than the person found to date, but must eliminate that possibility.

“We’re going deeper to the undisturbed ground area to reassure ourselves that we’ve recovered everything possible from this site,” he said.

Hinojosa said his crew of detectives Lt. Tom Fulk and Sgt. Ken Stump and Hammond Crime Scene Unit Sgts. Jeff Rob Vaught and Allan Retske occasionally bagged evidence to send to Nawrocki’s lab.

Police recovered a few “items of interest,” including some apparent bone fragments, to submit to Nawrocki. “We anticipate we’ll finish today,” he said Tuesday afternoon.​

 

[Centerice]

Looks like the link that Martha provided above may have had some additional information added to it.

Updated: October 11, 2011 5:52PM

Hammond Police have an idea who might be responsible for the human remains found last week in the rubble of a razed building, Chief Brian Miller said Tuesday.

“We’re looking at people who that person (the potential suspect) might have known who have gone missing,” said Miller, who declined to identify the person of interest. “At least now we have a clue.”

“We spoke to local people who knew the business and those that hung around there,” Miller told the Post-Tribune, referring to Great Lakes Bait and Tackle, 1718 Indianapolis Blvd. “That’s about all I can safely say.”

A team of Hammond police investigators on Tuesday searched the site again and found what they believe are the remaining bones.

“It was a good day,” Miller said. “We also think we found where the body was originally placed in a crawl space.”

 

[chmiller0904]

This article is interesting. I think it gives new information...

“We’re looking at people who that person (the potential suspect) might have known who have gone missing,” said Miller, who declined to identify the person of interest. “At least now we have a clue.”

“We spoke to local people who knew the business and those that hung around there,” Miller told the Post-Tribune, referring to Great Lakes Bait and Tackle, 1718 Indianapolis Blvd. “That’s about all I can safely say.”


That's a lot of information. Sounds like they know a lot more than expected. We just have to wait and see if it means these people "know the business".. i.e. employees.. customer of GREAT LAKES.. or, the young people that have partied there since it's closing. Must have been a lot of rumors floating around that area.

Interesting...

 

[MarthaM]

Looks like the link that Martha provided above may have had some additional information added to it.

Updated: October 11, 2011 5:52PM

Hammond Police have an idea who might be responsible for the human remains found last week in the rubble of a razed building, Chief Brian Miller said Tuesday.

“We’re looking at people who that person (the potential suspect) might have known who have gone missing,” said Miller, who declined to identify the person of interest. “At least now we have a clue.”

“We spoke to local people who knew the business and those that hung around there,” Miller told the Post-Tribune, referring to Great Lakes Bait and Tackle, 1718 Indianapolis Blvd. “That’s about all I can safely say.”

A team of Hammond police investigators on Tuesday searched the site again and found what they believe are the remaining bones.

“It was a good day,” Miller said. “We also think we found where the body was originally placed in a crawl space.”

Oh, you're right! Thanks for bringing the update here. I might not have gone back and seen it otherwise.

Some very intriguing info here. I think the reference to 'those that hung around here' makes it sound like their suspect was a regular at the shop, more than someone who owned it or worked there. It also makes me think that the remains have been there since before the store closed; he specifically mentions the business rather than just the property.

 

[Centerice]

This article is interesting. I think it gives new information...

“We’re looking at people who that person (the potential suspect) might have known who have gone missing,” said Miller, who declined to identify the person of interest. “At least now we have a clue.”

I might be reading into it too much but it sounds like they have a fairly good idea of who the UID might be as well if they are looking to tie a potential suspect to them.

If the UID does end up being Doreen Fogel then I am still curious about the fact that she attended the same high school (Hammond Tech) and was only a couple of years younger than the shop owner/operator that Webrocket found had recently passed away http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/nwitimes/obituary.aspx?n=john-h-newton&pid=147661791

Not sure how large of a school Hammond Tech High School is but at least that gives us the possibility that Doreen knew the owner or maybe one of the owners friends or an employee of the store perhaps?

 

[marycarney]

Kinda makes you go hmmmmmmmmmm.............

 

[MarthaM]

I would guess that LE's suspect is someone they know well and perhaps is already even incarcerated for something else right now.

Now that I think about it, the victim could have been put there after the store closed up, too. Someone who knew the shop well could very easily have known that there were some good hiding places there and used the crawl space sometime in the past 10 years.

 

[Centerice]

I'd be curious to know how long the bait and tackle shop was up for sale before it was demolished.

Was it only listed for sale recently, after the former owner/operator passed away in January of 2011, or had it been up for sale for a while?

I think it was stated that the business closed in 2000 earlier in the thread if I remember correctly.

 

[bessie]

Oh, you're right! Thanks for bringing the update here. I might not have gone back and seen it otherwise.

Some very intriguing info here. I think the reference to 'those that hung around here' makes it sound like their suspect was a regular at the shop, more than someone who owned it or worked there. It also makes me think that the remains have been there since before the store closed; he specifically mentions the business rather than just the property.

That's my interpretation, also. Regardless, the article is encouraging. Makes me feel like there's a good chance they'll solve the mystery of how the poor soul ended up where she did, and her family will have answers.

Centerice, from what I could tell by searching tax records, the shop was part of a larger parcel of property that was last sold in 2005. The business itself closed in around 2001, and we don't know if the owner/operator also owned the building. And then there's the discrepancy of who actually was the owner/operator.

 

[bessie]

This is a bit of stretch, but I wonder if the guy LE suspects is the fugitive arrested in Pennsylvania last week for a 1999 murder in Whiting of another man after an altercation over a girlfriend. He would've been about 18 in 1999.

Frank Perez Jr., 30, was charged with assaulting a federal agent and using a firearm while committing a violent crime after firing about two dozen rounds at police and federal agents during a standoff Tuesday in the Pittsburgh suburb of Verona.

Read more: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/...8c2-546c-97e9-f0c66f31d375.html#ixzz1aWmTXUua

Whiting police Sgt. John Sotello said Perez, also known as “Pumpkin,” is accused of shooting a former gang member in July 1999. The two got into an argument on a street corner about a girlfriend before Perez reportedly shot Jose Penawith a high-caliber pistol, Sotello said.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...na&cd=26&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

I wonder what happened to the girlfriend.
​

 

[MarthaM]

This is a bit of stretch, but I wonder if the guy LE suspects is the fugitive arrested in Pennsylvania last week for a 1999 murder in Whiting of another man after an altercation over a girlfriend. He would've been about 18 in 1999.

Frank Perez Jr., 30, was charged with assaulting a federal agent and using a firearm while committing a violent crime after firing about two dozen rounds at police and federal agents during a standoff Tuesday in the Pittsburgh suburb of Verona.

Read more: http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/...8c2-546c-97e9-f0c66f31d375.html#ixzz1aWmTXUua

Whiting police Sgt. John Sotello said Perez, also known as “Pumpkin,” is accused of shooting a former gang member in July 1999. The two got into an argument on a street corner about a girlfriend before Perez reportedly shot Jose Penawith a high-caliber pistol, Sotello said.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...na&cd=26&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

I wonder what happened to the girlfriend.
​

The only reason I think he might not be involved in this one is that I don't think he would have bothered to bury her. I suppose he could have, but it seems that gang-related shootings usually don't involve burying the victims.

It's interesting that he was caught at the same time that this other story was unfolding, though. It sure would be something if he was involved.

 

[Soulmagent]

Here's the side-by-side of Bessie's modified image with a zoom-in of Veronica Blumhorst's ring (on her right hand).

It's close, but the stone on Veronica's ring might be a little larger.

ETA: I had thought the hump on top was part of the ring, but on closer inspection, it looks more like either dirt or mummified flesh.

Is the color photo the edited to put the color in?

If not I want to say ,the gold is old and or 22k from england and the stone is an australian sapphire , the square setting an easy way to spot differances in this ring with other. It is not as common and this was probably not a cheap little . Not to expensive but made well.

If the color is edited or effected by lighting nevermind!
If not ,this person may have traveled or been given this ring from someone who did . Or got this ring from a pawn shop..this didnt help at all...

 

[CarlK90245]

Is the color photo the edited to put the color in?

...

If the color is edited or effected by lighting nevermind!

...

Yes, Bessie added some color to the photo to distinguish it from the material around it.

Here's an unaltered shot of the ring.