Found Deceased IN - Kyran Holland, 1, Kyannah Holland, 2, Kyle Moorman II, 5, & dad, Kyle Moorman, 27, Indianapolis, 6 Jul 2022

[Auntie Cipation]

One thing I wonder, is whether this car maybe was a standard transmission and he was only used to driving an automatic? Maybe that contributed to whatever happened, unfamiliarity etc. Like, for example, isn't it really easy/common to stall a manual transmission if you're not in the habit of remembering to push the clutch at the proper times? Or it got left in neutral somehow. I suspect there are a variety of things that could go wrong if it was true that he wasn't familiar with the kind of transmission the new car had.

 

[DeDee]

It feels uncomfortable to me that some are willing to blame what happened on the children playing with various instruments that are inside the car. I thought the children, ages 5, 2,and 1, were asleep. I just don't see sleepy children waking up after midnight to play with interior mechanical knobs and such in the dark, especially, if they're buckled into their car seats.

Kyle was last on his phone at 12:38am. Was he fishing at the time or was he inside the car? How did Kyle know the fence was down that allowed visitors to enter at that particular spot as the resident said it'd only been open about a month.

Back in the day when I was a younger form of myself, I bought a Saab with a turbocharged engine. 0 to 60 in seconds and all that jazz. That Saab would fly. While I don't know if Kyle enjoyed a fast car but when given the choice of a more conservative vehicle for carrying 3 toddlers out and about, then why choose a Saab? Perhaps the price was right.

The 2007 Saab, depending on who previously owned it, probably had been driven hard. Driving on a donut tire is not safe but surely he intended to replace that donut as he had the windshield. It seems to me that replacing the donut would be more important than replacing a windshield but IN laws require a windshield to be replaced if there's a crack obstructing the driver's view.

Indiana Windshield Crack Laws - Cracked Windshield Laws

Donut tires are meant to carry you to the nearest tire shop. Donut tires affect the braking, handling, and cornering characteristics of the vehicle.

Just humble opinions w/ wishes things had been different for those sweet babies wearing such adorable clothes.

 

[IceIce9]

I doubt that he forgot to put the car in park since he was sitting in it while texting.

I think it's pretty unlikely that one child was pressing the brakes while another moved the shifter, especially since he said they were sleeping.

Mechanical issues of some sort could be possible and I'm wondering if whoever sold him the car could be held responsible if that turns out to be the case. Does anyone know?

I think it is “buyer beware” when it comes to purchasing a used car. There is no requirement for vehicles to be mechanically inspected by either buyer or seller. At least in Indiana, that is. Sellers do not have to disclose known defects.

Many vehicles are purchased at auto auctions here. Auto auctions are very popular with people buying a vehicle for themselves or for resale. Cars sold at the auctions are always sold “as is.”

With a vehicle that old there could be numerous defects.

As I mentioned previously, many Saabs of that year had manual transmissions. It is much easier to have a vehicle with a stick shift roll. If you accidentally leave it in gear, or the parking brake fails when it is in neutral, or you forget to put on the parking brake. Speaking from experience here, as I have owned several sports cars with manual transmissions.

I realize that some of the scenarios are unlikely. Just trying to think of every possibility that could have happened in this situation.

 

[MimosaMornings]

The tip of the fishing pole(s) would have been sticking out one of the back windows near the youngest two children in the back seat. That’s the most common placement in a car due to the length of the pole.

 

[MimosaMornings]

I think it is “buyer beware” when it comes to purchasing a used car. There is no requirement for vehicles to be mechanically inspected by either buyer or seller. At least in Indiana, that is. Sellers do not have to disclose known defects.

Many vehicles are purchased at auto auctions here. Auto auctions are very popular with people buying a vehicle for themselves or for resale. Cars sold at the auctions are always sold “as is.”

With a vehicle that old there could be numerous defects.

As I mentioned previously, many Saabs of that year had manual transmissions. It is much easier to have a vehicle with a stick shift roll. If you accidentally leave it in gear, or the parking brake fails when it is in neutral, or you forget to put on the parking brake. Speaking from experience here, as I have owned several sports cars with manual transmissions.

I realize that some of the scenarios are unlikely. Just trying to think of every possibility that could have happened in this situation.

Perhaps he got it at a good price since it had a cracked windshield, a donut tire and no air conditioning - maybe planning on fixing things as he could afford it. It was mentioned upthread that his work schedule was erratic, it’s hard switching shifts constantly.
JMO

 

[mooseandcoffee]

It feels uncomfortable to me that some are willing to blame what happened on the children playing with various instruments that are inside the car. I thought the children, ages 5, 2,and 1, were asleep. I just don't see sleepy children waking up after midnight to play with interior mechanical knobs and such in the dark, especially, if they're buckled into their car seats.

Kyle was last on his phone at 12:38am. Was he fishing at the time or was he inside the car? How did Kyle know the fence was down that allowed visitors to enter at that particular spot as the resident said it'd only been open about a month.

Back in the day when I was a younger form of myself, I bought a Saab with a turbocharged engine. 0 to 60 in seconds and all that jazz. That Saab would fly. While I don't know if Kyle enjoyed a fast car but when given the choice of a more conservative vehicle for carrying 3 toddlers out and about, then why choose a Saab? Perhaps the price was right.

The 2007 Saab, depending on who previously owned it, probably had been driven hard. Driving on a donut tire is not safe but surely he intended to replace that donut as he had the windshield. It seems to me that replacing the donut would be more important than replacing a windshield but IN laws require a windshield to be replaced if there's a crack obstructing the driver's view.

Indiana Windshield Crack Laws - Cracked Windshield Laws



Just humble opinions w/ wishes things had been different for those sweet babies wearing such adorable clothes.

I don't think anyone is trying to blame anything on anyone. Everyone is just trying to figure out a scenario how this horrible tragedy happened. Unless they come up with some new information, it seems that one way or another, this was just an accident.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

I'm surprised there have been no autopsy results released yet. Preliminary results, not toxicology of course.

 

[gitana1]

When I look at the vehicle, I see a couple of things. One is that the driver's side window is partially open. I know the vehicle had a temporary plate. Does that mean the car, a 2009 Saab, was new to him and he might have been unfamiliar with some of the features associated with a European vehicle? Or was there just a backlog of adminstrative issues due to Covid regarding issuing a permanent plate? Sometimes buying a car that old means it may not come with an owner's manual although you can download them or buy them on eBay.

People familiar with the area say it was hot and muggy the night they went missing so I presume Kyle had the AC on and the windows up if he was sitting in the vehicle and so the kids wouldn't be cranky in a hot car. Whatever the reason the car entered the water, the same thing would happen; eventually the power windows would malfunction and you wouldn't be able to open the windows further. I wonder if that is what happened here? He was a very slim man so it is conceivable he could have exited the driver's side window to escape even if it wasn't fully down.

The second thing I see is the damage to the roof at the front of the vehicle. There doesn't seem to be much damage to the front or the rear. Normally when a vehicle is driven into water the grade is gradual so that most vehicles remain upright. With this being a former quarry the drop would have been fairly abrupt. If you look at images of how a quarry is mined it is done in quarry benches meaning it has a stepped appearance. So when this car became submerged it probably went down nose first and hit some of those benches on the way down perhaps ending up on its roof.

I'd be interested to know whether all the children were buckled into their car seats or not. And whether the oldest child was in the front or rear of the vehicle. I have a feeling the older child may not have been buckled in if they were just going to fish. If he was in the front, technically he also could have escaped with his father's help but the younger kids were probably doomed. The fact that Kyle's body came to the surface suggests it became dislodged after decomp started.

I know a lot of people are criticizing LE for not doing a water search earlier but usually there has to be evidence to start and from what I can gather there was no evidence of a vehicle going into the water. If people were searching and milling around or subsequent vehicles parked in that area after the vehicle went missing it would have obliterated any evidence. This pond was quite deep being a former quarry but relatively small. LE utilize metal detectors to locate wrecks underwater so I do wonder why that wasn't implemented.

Very informative post. Thanks.

 

[gitana1]

There is a large concrete slab for parking, I assume, then a smaller concrete "ramp" connected to the larger area. The ramp area actually looks large enough to park on, and I believe that's what Kyle did so he could keep an eye on the kids. The "ramp"does angle downward, but it's not like a boat ramp where you just ease into the water. This having been a quarry once upon a time, at the edge of the concrete, where it meets the water, is a sudden drop. A vehicle would surely turn 90 degrees, and with windows open, would fill and sink quickly nose first (if it were facing that way of course).

Ugh. That’s a scary place to go fishing at night with such a steep drop off.

 

[gitana1]

Do we know what the temperature was that night? What if the windows weren't rolled down? What if they were up until he got back in the car, then he goes jeez it's hot in here and he rolls his window part way down, then discovers it's been too hot for his children in there. How hot would it get in the car at night with the windows up? What would you do if you got back in the car and discovered it had been too hot for your kids and they were deceased? Just speculating, not bashing. Can't make sense of this one. MOO.

I see this theory proposed a lot in various cases. Accident leading to sudden suicide or murder of a third party they feel is to blame. IMO, typical human nature is to call for help no matter what. Parents refuse to believe there’s no hope until someone forces them to have no hope. They will even do CPR on a cold, stiff corpse, if it’s their own kid.

 

[gitana1]

Me too…especially food or drinks. Little ones love their snacks while riding in a car, while looking out the window, anticipating their destination. I can imagine young Kyle looking forward to fishing with his dad. I can’t understand how he was going to let the tiny ones enjoy the adventure except for keeping them in their car seats alone In the car.

The lack of diapers is what gets me. Nothing like a screaming, wet baby to ruin what’s supposed to be a relaxing time near the water.

 

[gitana1]

It could be that he finished his fishing. He gets in the car to back up and if the place he parked was steep (I don’t know if it was) he may have gunned the gas to get some momentum to reverse. Maybe he accidentally had it in drive instead of reverse and the car went quickly into the water, leaving little time to get the kids out. I think that if I went into the water with my babies, I would try to save them with my dying breath and maybe that’s why he was out of the car but died anyways. Does anyone know if was an automatic or manual?

There are a lot of unanswered questions for sure, but I’m choosing to believe it was a terrible accident for now. The alternative, while possible, is just something that is too heartbreaking to imagine.

Given this was a new car for him, the accident theory has an even stronger basis.

 

[azure]

Given this was a new car for him, the accident theory has an even stronger basis.

Do we know that for sure or is it just based on the temporary plate? Some people drive on temporary plates for years, esp with Covid.

 

[Mauig’ma]

I hope his family gets all the answers they need by this weekend as to what really happened. I can’t imagine the not knowing. And then trying to figure it out until those crucial questions are answered. It’ll help having LE and the coroner shedding light to the mystery. Whatever the reason we have the opportunity to turn this tragedy into something positive if we’re willing. It sucks that a beautiful family had to die for us as a society to try making something good come from it. We have no other choice but try. IMO Prayers for quick answers…

 

[IceIce9]

Do we know that for sure or is it just based on the temporary plate? Some people drive on temporary plates for years, esp with Covid.

In Indiana a temporary plate is only valid for 30 days, at which time it has to be replaced by a regular license plate.

 

[PhoneJockey]

Do we know that for sure or is it just based on the temporary plate? Some people drive on temporary plates for years, esp with Covid.

Going by his Facebook posts, he seems to have had the car for a while but only recently got it up and running. It was about a month ago that he had hit an animal, which bounced up and broke out the windshield - not just a crack, IMO the car would have been undrivable until the windshield was replaced.

 

[azure]

In Indiana a temporary plate is only valid for 30 days, at which time it has to be replaced by a regular license plate.

That doesn't mean people don't drive with them for years. There's an insta account for my hometown that calls out the ones from 2018 and before.

Sounds like Kyle got the car in March and did significant work to get it up and running. Given that, it's hard to believe he wouldn't know how to immobilize the vehicle or shift gears.

 

[IceIce9]

That doesn't mean people don't drive with them for years. There's an insta account for my hometown that calls out the ones from 2018 and before.

Sounds like Kyle got the car in March and did significant work to get it up and running. Given that, it's hard to believe he wouldn't know how to immobilize the vehicle or shift gears.

Here in Indianapolis area having an expired plate is one of the top reasons people get pulled over.

IMPD uses plate scanners, and it has resulted in far fewer motorists driving on expired plates.

 

[katydid23]

Here in Indianapolis area having an expired plate is one of the top reasons people get pulled over.

IMPD uses plate scanners, and it has resulted in far fewer motorists driving on expired plates.

According to the FB pix, he has owned the car since march. So it wasn't that new to him. I guess he was fixing it up slowly.

 

[nao]

Moo..you can have a temporary plate...and you can park the park the car when it expires and buy another temporary plate when you have enough money. People often do not have the funds to get a longer term plate. Moo