IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #10

[rlc]

I mean this question very respectfully.....

Can someone please explain why it matters how much money any of these POI's have? The only thing I can think of, is perhaps it explains why/how he can afford such a high-powered attorney. But even at that, these listings are $500 K homes. Homes in my area are 1/2 the size and priced higher. I know that very few of my neighbors who could afford an attorney of this caliber. Property value doesn't mean much IMO to show a person's wealth. I guess it's all relative. I'm just wondering though, if there is reason to be curious about their incomes - something that I may be missing. Are you assuming that because the family may have $, he may be better suited to buy drugs? If so, I'm not sure that's a consideration. The kids pushing drugs in many communities, come from FAR FAR FAR less than what JR may have had growing up. As an aside, I wouldn't begrudge anyone from getting the best attorney that they can afford (or even one they can't afford). If I were in his parents' shoes, I'd be forking out ALL that I could to help my son - remember that we're presumed innocent until proven otherwise. This is their son. Unless he has come forward with a confession to them, they are probably assuming he's innocent and wanting to help in any way they can.

JMO, but it seems sometimes that people who have more have more to lose, and that parents who have more are willing to go to more extremes to keep it and to maintain certain images. People who are well-off often have high-powered careers that will suffer greatly if they or their child is involved in a huge scandal. So not only do those children have more resources, they are more likely to use them to cover up scandals with the support and encouragement of their parents.

Change of topic: does anyone know if DR is related to the DR (same name, old enough to be his father) who is a former reporter and journalism professor at IU?

 

[elmomom]

About the drugs...

It seems to me that the ONLY people having been described as stumbling around... impaired... incoherent, semi-conscious etc etc for the night were ONLY Cr and LS. And they went to Kilroys together. Left all their friends to go to the bar, just them 2 if we have been told correctly. It doesn't seem like a run of the mill trip out for LS out to me. Could have been a trip to get a hold of something that wasn't available back at the apartment... The rumor of LS talking about her drug use (xanax and coke) while visibly intoxicated at Kilroys has never sat right with me. And the fact that CR cannot remember 15 minutes prior to Smallwood means he probably remembers arriving at Kilroy's, but not leaving.
One possibility is a date rape or similar scenario, which may give the mgmnt from Kilroy's extreme anxiety. They are already in hot water over this for serving the under 21 crowd.
Another possibility is a rendezvous with a different supplier - and after having "scored", the substance was taken and the effects became quite apparent while they were at Kilroys.
I have my theories about what kind of drugs may have been around, and again, other than the risk to her heart I think cocaine is not the key. You certainly can become comatose from mixing your CNS depressants (google Karen Ann Quinlan) with alcohol with NO cocaine. But this crowd probably were used to mixing Xanax and booze by now. Personally I think it was something else, and a little worse than cocaine. I don't know if it was something taken intentionally or if it was given to LS while she was already impaired.

 

[Blythe]

So what does LE know which would help us? What info is LE sitting on, do you speculate?

 

[wisco23]

This is an example of a property which I believe is in the area JR's family lives. I could be wrong, of course:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6704-Watercroft-Ct-West-Bloomfield-MI-48322/2128013178_zpid/

A house like that in other parts of the country, CA, MA, etc. might be assessed at 4+ times as much.

Interesting choice of example...:waitasec:

 

[elmomom]

I mean this question very respectfully.....

Can someone please explain why it matters how much money any of these POI's have?

you're right, as far as I am concerned, it really has little or no bearing on the case. In my explorations I like to get a sense of the type of people they are, and the social environment that they come from, and that's about all. But after discussion of JR's potential wealth I felt that we should not be making distinctions, as it seemed to me that they all ran in the same circles and had fairly similar economic backgrounds.

 

[cluciano63]

So what does LE know which would help us? What info is LE sitting on, do you speculate?

I think they probably have phone records and know who was texting, who was calling, etc...but what they can do with that is uncertain. They may not have the text of the texts, or be able to tell who a person spoke with if a number was dialed, for example.

Phone and/or text data will probably become crucial at some point...also pings. I hope they have or are awaiting this kind of info.Finding Lauren may be an impossible task, unless one of these POI's took her out of the area and his phone pinged the entire time.

 

[Glaucon]

I just checked out DR's Facebook page. :floorlaugh: Whoah. If being a chucklehead was a crime, this guy would be locked up for life (as would the majority of the PsOI here). My Facebook is private all the time, the way everyone should keep theirs. This guy is all over the news and he STILL doesn't make it private? I can't fathom that - especially since he comes off as borderline illiterate. How the **** would this guy ever get a job?

None of this makes him guilty of anything, of course. I guess it just shows the caliber of person we're dealing with. You are who you surround yourself with.

 

[Agent003]

The question - At 4:30 is LS coked up and raring to go, stumbling drunk, comatose, or dead?
--- any other possibilities?

Hypothetically speaking, if Agent003 experienced mixing cocaine and alcohol in the past. The latter two possibilities you listed would best describe the zombie like state you'd be in at 4:30am (assuming the "party" started b/w 10-12ish). Any additional cocaine consumed around 4:30am would have little to no effects assuming you were doing it earlier and drinking.. probably would be the last thing on your mind at that hour. Agent003 has never used any prescription drugs, so can only imagine what that would add to the mix.. It's sad to think about what probably happened that night.

 

[bunnyesq.]

search warrants maybe, but arrests? on what charges?

public intoxication? consumption of alcohol by minors? public nuisance? assault (the fight at one of the bldgs)? certainly no evidence any of them did any harm to Lauren that night.

if any of them were arrested, any cooperation by the others would vanish, even though I seriously doubt there was any vast conspiracy between them and I don't think any of them had anything to do with Lauren's disappearance.

I said they arguably had probable cause for to arrest some of the POIs. Probable cause is not a very high standard to overcome. And yes, they could arrest the POIs on any number of unrelated charges, police everywhere do this all the time to detain people they suspect have committed more serious crimes.

Perhaps cooperation would vanish, but really, how much cooperation is in place to begin with? Not much, from what we heard from Mrs. Spierer yesterday. Or perhaps it would be a wake up call to a few of these individuals and someone would start talking. They all seem to have attorneys so how fruitful detaining certain POIs is another matter entirely.

 

[Gabby66]

JMO, but it seems sometimes that people who have more have more to lose, and that parents who have more are willing to go to more extremes to keep it and to maintain certain images. People who are well-off often have high-powered careers that will suffer greatly if they or their child is involved in a huge scandal. So not only do those children have more resources, they are more likely to use them to cover up scandals with the support and encouragement of their parents.

Change of topic: does anyone know if DR is related to the DR (same name, old enough to be his father) who is a former reporter and journalism professor at IU?

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I disagree with much of this, but I very much appreciate your reply, since I asked. Thanks. I just hope that people won't use unfair stereotypes to discriminate. Don't get me wrong... I tend to believe JR is guilty of some crime, at the very least perhaps just withholding evidence or not reporting a crime. However, I'd like to think that NO parent (regardless of income) wants to see their name in the paper, nor their family's reputation tarnished. I think that even the small-time middle class Butcher would have just as much or more to lose. A wealthier person, with a college degree, may be able to move across the country and switch companies. A middle class worker, having a skilled trade position, may not have the same opportunity. The wealthier person is probably still going to have an income. The small-time Butcher may lose local business all together. Let's face it - many of those smaller family-operated businesses remain in business b/c friends/family support them out of respect. Many people find it more convenient to get their meat, Rx, flowers, etc. at Walmart. Just one of many examples. When the middle class lose respect, they can lose their livelihood. I personally live in an affluent area, but I have great respect for ALL. BTW, I am not insinuating that you weren't respectful b/c I didn't take your post in that light. It was an honest reply with your opinion and I'm sure many people feel the same way. I thought there was something more that I was missing. Thanks.

 

[Blythe]

Agent003, So you aren't walking home, then..or even making a phone call. That has been my issue with JR. I woke up this morning deciding to believe all the PsOI. Can't get there with JR.

 

[British]

I said they arguably had probable cause for to arrest some of the POIs. Probable cause is not a very high standard to overcome. And yes, they could arrest the POIs on any number of unrelated charges, police everywhere do this all the time to detain people they suspect have committed more serious crimes.

Perhaps cooperation would vanish, but really, how much cooperation is in place to begin with? Not much, from what we heard from Mrs. Spierer yesterday. Or perhaps it would be a wake up call to a few of these individuals and someone would start talking. They all seem to have attorneys so how fruitful detaining certain POIs is another matter entirely.

Interesting. I had not thought that they may have a probable cause to arrest some of the POIs on unrelated charges. But to do that, would n't the police still need some evidence (i.e. lets say for possible drug use, etc)?. I agree with your point that the cooperation may well be questionable. It all comes down on whether or not one believes the story that she was "seen walking out at 4.30 AM". Although we obviously dont know all facts to me this story is not particularly believable, especially as there is no video confirming that.

 

[bessie]

24-Hour News 8's Jay Hermacinski takes a closer look at some of the people at the heart of the matter - Lauren's boyfriend, the student who says he saw her last, and the student who says he doesn't remember a thing.

Search for Spierer: Who's Who

 

[cluciano63]

The only thing that money MAY have to do with any of this, is the ability for certain parties to obtain high-powered attorneys, vs. other cases where the POI's can't afford to do so, or don't do so early on, therefore LE may have more spontaneous statements from them. So in a way, money may be hampering LE's ability to get as much cooperation as they, or Lauren's family, would like.

I do wish the parents of the POI's would encourage their sons to continue cooperating, in any event. I also wish that LE would give immunity for drugs consumed or sold or shared on this night. It might be the only way to find out what happened, especially if none of the POI's know what happened to Lauren.

 

[porchpile]

edit: nevermind

 

[Blythe]

Mystery or crime solved is one thing. But I can't help feeling that it is probably too late to bring Lauren (dead or alive) back to her family.

 

[rlc]

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I disagree with much of this, but I very much appreciate your reply, since I asked. Thanks. I just hope that people won't use unfair stereotypes to discriminate. Don't get me wrong... I tend to believe JR is guilty of some crime, at the very least perhaps just withholding evidence or not reporting a crime. However, I'd like to think that NO parent (regardless of income) wants to see their name in the paper, nor their family's reputation tarnished. I think that even the small-time middle class Butcher would have just as much or more to lose. A wealthier person, with a college degree, may be able to move across the country and switch companies. A middle class worker, having a skilled trade position, may not have the same opportunity. The wealthier person is probably still going to have an income. The small-time Butcher may lose local business all together. Let's face it - many of those smaller family-operated businesses remain in business b/c friends/family support them out of respect. Many people find it more convenient to get their meat, Rx, flowers, etc. at Walmart. Just one of many examples. When the middle class lose respect, they can lose their livelihood. I personally live in an affluent area, but I have great respect for ALL. BTW, I am not insinuating that you weren't respectful b/c I didn't take your post in that light. It was an honest reply with your opinion and I'm sure many people feel the same way. I thought there was something more that I was missing. Thanks.

In theory, I agree with you. IME, the further a person climbs up the socioeconomic ladder, the more they seem to work to stay there. In my last neighborhood, when people hit financial hard times, they admitted it. Where I am now, people will max out their credit cards to maintain the image. I think most people in high-paying jobs are aware of how easy it is to fall and never recover completely. Whereas a lot of lower income jobs, you could face complete scandal, but pick up at the same income level in another area. Any business owner, I think, is going to have a lot to lose when his image is tarnished. And in that sense, the butcher and the CEO may both want to protect their image, but the CEO is still going to have more resources to do so. (FWIW, I don't necessarily think middle class is going to be any different than the lower incomes, but I do think there is a difference in the desperation of the upper income levels vs the lower income levels in maintaining image/lifestyle).

 

[bunnyesq.]

Interesting. I had not thought that they may have a probable cause to arrest some of the POIs on unrelated charges. But to do that, would n't the police still need some evidence (i.e. lets say for possible drug use, etc)?. I agree with your point that the cooperation may well be questionable. It all comes down on whether or not one believes the story that she was "seen walking out at 4.30 AM". Although we obviously dont know all facts to me this story is not particularly believable, especially as there is no video confirming that.

I think they probably have enough evidence to arrest (on unrelated charges). Hearsay, or 2nd person accounts of what occurred are an okay basis to use for probable cause.

I'm not saying arrest them though, I don't think they would glean much info from them anyways.

 

[elmomom]

Search for Spierer: Who's Who

Thanks Bessie!
Interesting nugget in there, and now I'll have to track something down to see if it is true or if this is just an error. Up until now, I have heard DR placed only at Smallwood and never at Rosenbaums "very early in the morning." Extremely interesting if his wherabouts are not as clear for that part of the timeline.

David Rohn

Resident of Lauren's apartment building, Smallwood Plaza. Lauren's roommate told a New York media outlet Spierer went to Jay Rosenbaum's apartment with Rohn very early Friday morning. Corey Rossman and Mike Beth were also reportedly there.

 

[Agent003]

Agent003, So you aren't walking home, then..or even making a phone call. That has been my issue with JR. I woke up this morning deciding to believe all the PsOI. Can't get there with JR.

It's really hard to make that judgement. So I should probably not speculate too much.

But if I didn't have my cell phone, I wouldn't be making any calls because I have no numbers memorized. Walking home or not, I think would depend mostly on how comfortable she felt with the people around her. I'm not sure I would want to walk home alone at the time they are claiming unless I was carrying a weapon for self defense. I've been suspicious with JR's statement about her leaving from the very beginning also.