IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #11

[docwho3]

Lt Parker mentioned in one presser that dogs had been used
with negative results. Other than that, he didn't give any details that
I recall.

That in itself is an interesting bit of info which takes my thoughts in a couple of 'mobile' type directions.

One of those directions being:
Often in cases a scent is tracked only a short way, up to the point
where the missing person entered a vehicle.

Still, I wonder what type of dogs were used and just how trained
they were?

 

[goodgirl65]

6. The alleged LS phone call to DR doesn't make any sense. Even if LS was completely wasted, why would she choose to call DR about her phone, when the last place she saw DR was in the very same apartment she was (allegedly and currently) standing in? Why wouldn't she have called her roommate instead, who was with DR the last time she saw either of them?

As for the phone call, we don't know for sure Lauren made it. Let's say she did, and she was looking for her phone. It might sound crazy, but still possible, that she could remember DR's number but not her roommate's. Most people with cell phones these days just punch the number in to their contacts list and don't bother to memorize it. Maybe there was something about Dr's number that made it easy to remember.

Forgive me for snipping...Im also new to this thread and have been trying to catch up...

The reason i quoted your answer and put that one sentence in bold is because Im not sure if its relevant that LS remembered or had to try and remember DR's phone #..Wouldnt that perhaps be on JR's cell(if she used his cell) or even if she used a landline, couldnt she get the # from JR?

 

[goodgirl65]

The 4:15 Call

If it was LS who placed the 4:15 call to DR, presumably to be let into Smallwood, and he is sleeping, why not call HT? HT hasn't said "she didn't call me, I wish she did." HT, when talking about the 4:15 call, zeroes in on one thing: IT WAS LS, NOT JR.

.

Forgive me for being a little late on the mark here but im trying to catch up on the avalanche of posts the past couple days...

Isnt it possible that the reason LS didnt call HT is because she didnt have her # memorized and JR didnt have her number? Does anyone know if this is the case or not?

 

[goodgirl65]

umm as far as I can tell, those bars are in circulation every night with this crowd... just sayin

And if anyone knows anything about those Xanax bars(or regular continued high doses) they can cause alot of irritability, anxiety and violent tendencies when coming off from them...

 

[docwho3]

As I was reading search results I also found these
bits of interesting reading.

Some or all of it may have already been posted about previously
for all I know. It is hard to keep up with all the posts at times.

' . . .The search has sparked painful memories for residents and the parents
of another student who disappeared more than a decade ago. Jill Behrman . . .'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/07/lauren-spierer-search-con_n_872299.html

http://www.bloomingpedia.org/wiki/Jill_Behrman

Notice the many twists the case took before a final arrest was
made. Could we be in for something similar in this case?
http://www.wthr.com/story/5486450/j...timeline?ClientType=Printable&redirected=true

2 other past cases of missing young women in morgan county
'. . . it might be pertinent to point out the disappearances of two other Indiana co-eds.
The first was Ann Louise Harmeier in 1977. Her remains were found later that year
in a Morgan County cornfield. Several years later, Jill Behrman, another co-ed,
was found in Morgan County. . . .'
Note:BBM
http://pharostribune.com/columns/x1625117252/A-simple-wish-for-Father-s-Day

'. . . Bloomington Police searched a section of land near the
Monroe-Morgan County line Sunday after receiving a tip in the
case of missing IU student, Lauren Spierer. . .'
Note:BBM
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-new-...h-for-lauren-spierer-20110619,0,6866396.story

Ann Louise Harmeier
http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/6321.html


Now then, I am not saying we have a serial killer or anything wild like that.
I just found the links interesting and thought to share them since they are
about cases from the same general area.
I especially found it interesting to read what was released to the public at
first and compare it to what the final case outcome was.

 

[TonyGatto]

Forgive me for being a little late on the mark here but im trying to catch up on the avalanche of posts the past couple days...

Isnt it possible that the reason LS didnt call HT is because she didnt have her # memorized and JR didnt have her number? Does anyone know if this is the case or not?

HT's number or other friends' numbers not being in JR's phone is just not plausible. HT and JR were close friends, she said she used to hang out a lot at his place last year.

 

[TonyGatto]

Doubt she'd call him for that, since this article http://www.indystar.com/article/201.../Interviews-Spierer-s-friends-family-continue indicates that DR and LS headed over to JR's after 12:30, and only after this initial meeting to "watch the game" [/B]

One big problem with this narrative which has been out there for awhile is that the game was at 9pm. The info comes from HT, and is convoluted. She says she was with LS til 12:30 and then LS leaves, and HT stays at Smallwood. HT also says LS watched the game with the boys up on 11th st. IF that's true, LS left Smallwood EARLY (in the 8pm hour) watched the game, went back down to Smallwood and then left again to go out for the night (we have on video).

 

[TonyGatto]

That's a good question, Jane, and it goes back to the phone call. I don't know the extent of their relationship, but I have a feeling they are not that close. Otherwise, a call from JR to DR would not be out of the ordinary, and JR would not have been forced to admit LS was at his place to explain the phone call. JMO.

I really don't know. The all seem to be part of the same circle. But, then again, LS supposedly didn't meet CR til just recently.

 

[British]

Quite possibly. The truck could be an accomplice who aids in disposal of the body.

I am walking back at least a little my suspicion of JR, but I still find it hard to come up with a believable scenario in which both he is telling the truth and LE remains focused on what the friends know.

I think there are 3 major possibilities left IMO:

1. Unknown criminal on the street who randomly attacked LS after she left. Unlikely because there is no video of her walking back to her place in that case. But still theoretically possible.

2. OD and cover-up by more than one person in that building. In that case the last person who admitted seeing her may be involved in the cover-up, but might not have acted alone. Lets not forget that another of the POIs has claimed "memory loss" for any events after a certain time that night. Claiming "memory loss" sounds more concerning to me than what JR has said about what happened.

3. Sexual assault by someone who knew her. I think that is also unlikely, but still possible.

These are the 3 possible scenarios IMO. I believe that #2 is by far the most likely and #1 the least likely.

 

[TonyGatto]

PHONE CALL Just came into my head. POCKET CALL! Theory: The call was made when something bad happened to LS. It's JR's phone. So now I'm thinking it wasn't DR or JR who dialed. Maybe during a struggle. Moving a body? The timing is perfect. And if this is the scenerio, JR would need to explain the call. Which he apparently has, to HT.

 

[British]

PHONE CALL Just came into my head. POCKET CALL! Theory: The call was made when something bad happened to LS. It's JR's phone. So now I'm thinking it wasn't DR or JR who dialed. Maybe during a struggle. Moving a body? The timing is perfect. And if this is the scenerio, JR would need to explain the call. Which he apparently has, to HT.

Interesting and possible. But why to DR specifically? And what call did he make to HT? Is that a fact?

 

[TonyGatto]

Interesting and possible. But why to DR specifically? And what call did he make to HT? Is that a fact?

LS had been w/ DR earlier. So I can see LS using JR's phone earlier, to contact DR, cause she didn't have hers. DR's number being the last number dialed could put it as the most likely number to be dialed accidentally. Also if LS had been using JR's phone earlier, it would be a likely story to continue to tell later, fresh in mind and all.

Interesting HT point. Why was it HER phone number was on tweets by LS's close friends on the evening of June 3. Why were friends tweeting that calls should be made to HT? LS had already been reported missing.

 

[Jupiter812]

LS had been w/ DR earlier. So I can see LS using JR's phone earlier, to contact DR, cause she didn't have hers. DR's number being the last number dialed could put it as the most likely number to be dialed accidentally. Also if LS had been using JR's phone earlier, it would be a likely story to continue to tell later, fresh in mind and all.

Interesting HT point. Why was it HER phone number was on tweets by LS's close friends on the evening of June 3. Why were friends tweeting that calls should be made to HT? LS had already been reported missing.

Is a pocket call the same as a "butt call"? :floorlaugh: Even if this is what happened does it change anything?

Regarding the tweets, do you mean tweet to HT instead of LS? That is highly suspect unless everyone knew LS's phone was at Kilroys, even so, why is good question.

TG, did you see my question pages back about your tweet to JR's neighbor at 5 North? His twitter name is MM, a rapper-looking dude? Wonder if you can share any finding.

 

[British]

LS had been w/ DR earlier. So I can see LS using JR's phone earlier, to contact DR, cause she didn't have hers. DR's number being the last number dialed could put it as the most likely number to be dialed accidentally. Also if LS had been using JR's phone earlier, it would be a likely story to continue to tell later, fresh in mind and all.

Interesting HT point. Why was it HER phone number was on tweets by LS's close friends on the evening of June 3. Why were friends tweeting that calls should be made to HT? LS had already been reported missing.

If that is the case, there should be at least another phone logged between JR and DR numbers sometime approximately between 2 AM and and 4 AM that night. Police would know that. Interesting possibility.

I am still confused about the HT number. Was there any phone from JR to HT reported? As for her friends tweeting next day that calls should be made to HT, I dont find that surprising or suspicious in any way. She is her roommate.

 

[Jupiter812]

As I was reading search results I also found these
bits of interesting reading.

Some or all of it may have already been posted about previously
for all I know. It is hard to keep up with all the posts at times.

' . . .The search has sparked painful memories for residents and the parents
of another student who disappeared more than a decade ago. Jill Behrman . . .'
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/07/lauren-spierer-search-con_n_872299.html

http://www.bloomingpedia.org/wiki/Jill_Behrman

Notice the many twists the case took before a final arrest was
made. Could we be in for something similar in this case?
http://www.wthr.com/story/5486450/j...timeline?ClientType=Printable&redirected=true

2 other past cases of missing young women in morgan county
'. . . it might be pertinent to point out the disappearances of two other Indiana co-eds.
The first was Ann Louise Harmeier in 1977. Her remains were found later that year
in a Morgan County cornfield. Several years later, Jill Behrman, another co-ed,
was found in Morgan County. . . .'
Note:BBM
http://pharostribune.com/columns/x1625117252/A-simple-wish-for-Father-s-Day

'. . . Bloomington Police searched a section of land near the
Monroe-Morgan County line Sunday after receiving a tip in the
case of missing IU student, Lauren Spierer. . .'
Note:BBM
http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-new-...h-for-lauren-spierer-20110619,0,6866396.story

Ann Louise Harmeier
http://newsinfo.iu.edu/news/page/normal/6321.html


Now then, I am not saying we have a serial killer or anything wild like that.
I just found the links interesting and thought to share them since they are
about cases from the same general area.
I especially found it interesting to read what was released to the public at
first and compare it to what the final case outcome was.

I don't see any connection between these. Over a period of that many years, there are bound to be missing women cases.

The Jill Behrman case is very, very different than this one. Not that the outcome can't be the same, but in terms of the evidence and accounts PD are sifting through, what they report, etc.

 

[Jupiter812]

That in itself is an interesting bit of info which takes my thoughts in a couple of 'mobile' type directions.

One of those directions being:
Often in cases a scent is tracked only a short way, up to the point
where the missing person entered a vehicle.

Still, I wonder what type of dogs were used and just how trained
they were?

See quote below. Why not call and ask? http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-14-lauren-spierer-investigation-tips_n.htm

"The Greenville Fire District, which covers the Spierer's Greenburgh neighborhood, sent a captain, two firefighters and a search dog to Bloomington ..."

 

[northsider]

Thanks for the warm welcome to the forum. I'm a longtime Btown resident, so this case obviously is very interesting and significant to me.

AnalyticalExaminer - Good catch on the 10-12 minute period in Smallwood. I had been looking at two different timelines (the official one and the legalpub one) and was confused by the discrepancy.

SmoothOperator (and TonyGatto) - Regarding the game time discrepancy, ABC/ESPN will sometimes air the game "live" when it's happening, then air it again on ESPN at midnight or 1 am. They do this with college football and college basketball, too. I don't remember if they did that for Game 1 of the Finals...does anyone know for certain whether they did or didn't? If they did, then it's possible they went over to JRs to watch the replay. Or, as Tony notes, they actually were over at JRs much earlier in the evening (when the game was going on live).

But honestly...the more I think about it, the less convinced I am that these two girls went to JRs at 12:30 to "watch basketball". If they were that interested in the game, why not watch it live three hours earlier?

AE and Bessie - Fair point on the discrepancies with the length of time that CR and LS had known each other. I just found it odd that, given LS and HT both knew JR well, that they'd never bumped in to CR at JR's place before.

Bloom - Good point about eastbound traffic on 11th stopped at that light. I just wonder if there would've been any at that time of night.

A few other thoughts:

- I was talking to my girlfriend about this case, and I mentioned the altercation in Smallwood. She thought that was very strange. She used to date a guy who lived in Smallwood (on the 5th floor, no less!), and she noted that you have to use the keycard to get the elevator to go to the right floor. I have heard that LS didn't live on the 5th floor (anyone know if that's right?), so it's strange that they'd get up there. My gf also noted that the hallways of Smallwood are laid out in a way that you're not going to just randomly bump into someone --- which makes me wonder how this altercation came to be in the first place. How did these guys track CR and LS down? I saw a theory that they followed them from Sports to Smallwood, which makes some sense --- but if they did, then why (and how) would they end up on the 5th floor? Especially since the supposed assailant lives at 10th and College and not in Smallwood.

- I'm becoming increasingly curious of HT. I'd really like to know her timeline from the moment LS left JR's apartment the first time. And I agree with one of Tony's earlier points - if the 415 call was purposeful (as opposed to a pocketdial), then it makes no sense to call DR, when HT's number was certainly in JRs phone, AND HT was supposedly with DR the last time LS saw them both.

- I am fairly convinced that JW didn't have anything to do with this. But it is worth noting that his address is not that far of a walk from 11th and College...basically just a block south of Yogi's.

 

[northsider]

Oh, one other random thought, and this is highly speculative, so I apologize in advance. But what if JR's timeline is an hour later than things actually happened? I.E. - instead of arriving at his door at 3:10 and leaving between 4:15-4:30, what if she simply came in, looked for her cell phone, and left? I realize this flies in the face of JR's statement, but his statement seems unrealistic to begin with. This would also possibly explain the "mystery man" scenario, because that timeline would put her in the vicinity of 10th and College around 3:30 or so.

 

[bessie]

LS had been w/ DR earlier. So I can see LS using JR's phone earlier, to contact DR, cause she didn't have hers. DR's number being the last number dialed could put it as the most likely number to be dialed accidentally. Also if LS had been using JR's phone earlier, it would be a likely story to continue to tell later, fresh in mind and all.

Interesting HT point. Why was it HER phone number was on tweets by LS's close friends on the evening of June 3. Why were friends tweeting that calls should be made to HT? LS had already been reported missing.

Why not tweet a LE phone number? Possible answer: Friends sticking together. If LS was safe but MIA voluntarily, she wanted to give her a heads up. Lauren would have a chance to come up with an excuse for her absence and call JW or her parents before LE became further involved.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

- I'm becoming increasingly curious of HT. I'd really like to know her timeline from the moment LS left JR's apartment the first time. And I agree with one of Tony's earlier points - if the 415 call was purposeful (as opposed to a pocketdial), then it makes no sense to call DR, when HT's number was certainly in JRs phone, AND HT was supposedly with DR the last time LS saw them both.

Are you under the impression that HT was with the group at JR"s earlier in the evening? I don't believe that that's the case. HT was with LS at Smallwood until 12:30AM, supposedly, when LS and DR (but not HT) went to JR's.

Again, it makes sense to call DR at 415 because he is male, not female, and perhaps because he has a car.