IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #16

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OK. This is the person who has been the sole source of the JR FB friend who she alleges is the guest at JR's house, Runcible Spoon, etc. This person does a lot of looking at FB and Twitter feeds and then posts them. I applaud the research skills. But then he/she comes up with things like the BPD and Drug Cartels and ZO is a drug informant and blah, blah,blah. Gee...what a great story this would be. I live for uncovering a story like this. But one problem...no evidence. Which is why I pushback on this person she is trying to push forward. Unless he/she does something other than announce conspiracy theories, and unsubstantiated grandiose allegations of vast multi-agency corruption -- I would steer clear. This person was all over me on Twitter the moment I landed in Btown -- but when I didn't give this person acknowledgment -- never heard from he/she again. So I didn't buy in and then I reported some real stuff. He/she was not interested. There are two flakes in all this from what I can see. This person and the guy who goes around talking about the war on drugs. If I am wrong -- I will admit it when I get one piece of evidence that gives either of these people a shred of credibility. And I also wonder if these people are one in the same.

@TG
I understand how it can be frustrating to have people who seem to know things, are close to the situation, have useful insights and then let that overlap into more speculative areas which could be baseless. However...

1) What's wrong with sifting out any information for gold nuggets?
2) You may in fact also be able to confirm some of what was posted on that thread with information you have from witnesses. I'll list some of it below and would be curious if you believe those aspects to be true.
3) I have been around a while and have been close to LE in different parts of the country and in different situations. I have seen first hand more than one way LE can become corrupt from small town cops to FBI - I have seen it. They are people not angels. I'll give you 2 examples - I know firsthand of a suburban cop who had sex with 2 underage girls(simultaneously) which should have been prosecuted as rape, but instead he just transferred to a different PD. In another instance I know of a cop who traded drugs for sex with a teen that I worked with. In another instance, a guy I went to H.S. with became a cop, and he readily admitted to carrying plants to use as evidence for various reasons. I won't go on, but suffice it to say that I know most LE are decent people, but in some places there is a lot of slack or blinders on, and there is without question a broad spectrum of corruption out there.
4) I find it hard to conceive that what happened to LS did not involve a conspiracy of some sort. How high it goes and what elements were involved is more the question. I wonder if you really would want to be barking up the tree of people that can make people disappear with total impunity? It certainly seems to that something is very weird in this case, and it's not a run of the mill OD. There could be some larger stories here... I certainly hope those in the know will feed you info that proves useful.


Anyway, here is the list of questions I have after reading that conversation.
I hope you can confirm or refute these things.

1) Did the 3:38 witness look at the photo of AB? Can she confirm if this is the dark man she said was carrying LS over his shoulder? Since you have his photo posted on your blog, it would seem this to be an obvious question.

2) That dialogue has a far more serious discussion about cocaine than theorized about on WS threads. That discussion is rather far reaching implicating JR and CR well beyond ordinary partying. From what you know, is cocaine use as prevalent and in as high supply as this discussion indicated? Are there credible reports saying that CR and JR were coke dealers?

3) The discussion said that ZO had also previously been in trouble at Smallwood, is that true?

4) Your blog is where I first saw ZO identified. (Thanks for that!) And the connections you revealed are interesting. But still puzzling is WHY did ZO hit CR? It's still being downplayed. Why did smallwood management's statements come out almost in defense of ZO while his name was suppressed until it turns up on your blog!

5) I've seen the reference to Xanax (particularly at Kilroys) in a few different places. And here in that discussion it pops up again. Is there any corroboration from Bartenders or others at Kilroys that LS had made comments about taking a lot of Xanax that night?

6) Has LE searched ZO/AB's place?

7) In that discussion one of the posters seemed to be implying a connection between ZO/AB and DR. Is there anything to back that up.

8) is there anything to suggest that CR/LS were NOT headed to CR/MB's after leaving Smallwood?

9) In the discussion one poster seems to think that LE has a lot more video evidence. I think that there is some video evidence that hasn't been announced by LE yet. Do you agree?

10) a poster said that ALL of the key players had retained their attorneys BEFORE LS was reported missing. Is there a way to verify this?


3 thoughts about body disposal:
1) if there were pros involved the body may never be found.
2) Regardless of what happened, I think LE is (if not involved) thinking the people who may have disposed of a body are average or typical. In this case, if they were not pros they may have been more clever than average and so the usual places to find bodies may be NOT where to look.
A storage room, a roof, a closet, a locker, places very hard to search and very concealed instead of woods, bodies of water, etc...
3) It may have been carted off to another state and packaged so well it may never be found. And by now the vehicle may have been cleaned so well that in the unlikely event the body does turn up there will be no evidence.
 
Was in college in SA. I know here the drinking age is 18, so it possibly makes a difference. Different in the sense that we were'nt underage.
 
Sorry, did reply but wanted to reply with quote - I was in college in SA. Should there be a difference? Obviously, location.. but other than that?

Hi, I'm new here.... from South Africa... sorry for just hopping on.... From these photos it looks like there is a lot of construction going on. The area would actually probably look a bit scary at 3h30 / 4am in the morning. Don't think I would've made the walk.... I was also in college and there was always lots of parties and things going on but I never went anywhere alone but then again I've always had quite a paranoid side... really hope they find Lauren. I've been reading this case and I really hope she is ok. Whatever she did or didn't do, she didn't deserve to be hurt by another person - if that was the case. IMO

Apologies to everyone if I write a bit out of order - still new and figuring out.

Regarding my above post - after re-reading, I do realise that if you are quite familiar with the specific area it might give one more courage and a sense of safety to walk there alone at night. But at that time - I just don't know. I've taken from the posts that Bloomington is quite a safe area so I guess if you have that sense of living in a safe town you just don't always expect the unexpected. Don't know if this is making sense:banghead:
 
One interesting fact mentioned in this video: Whether LS had her prescription meds is unclear. (Of course, the article is dated June 8, and more information may have been determined since then).

One thing that I think has been a bit overblown is her heart condition. I work in an industry relating to Long QT Syndrome, and while I don't know the particulars of her personal condition, I can tell you that death as a result of Long QT is uncommon. This was true even before there were any treatments.

Long QT increases your risk for sudden death, but sudden death is by no means a high probability. It's one of those risk factors, like any risk factor, that is good to know about and good to take steps to mitigate, but most people with Long QT are not medicated because they are unaware of their condition. If she went without her medication, the chances are she would be just fine for a very long time, if not forever. The consequences of being "not fine" are really serious, so of course if you knew you had it you'd want to follow doctor's instructions.

I am not implying that cocaine or other stimulants wouldn't be a very bad idea with Long QT. I'm just saying that every once in a while people were say things like, "would she even have survived this long without her meds?" and the answer is most likely even now, if her only problem was that she had no meds, she would be just fine.
 
The question is, Has the passport been accounted for?

We have no indication of the amount of cash available to LS personally.

What if she had contact with or associated with some group which wants to bring immigrants into Israel? They might provide the ticket etc.
...
If she did board a plane, there must be some record. This possibility should be fully investigated.
...
Prescription medications could be very easily tracked; but apparently LSs were missing from her belongings (or at least not accounted for as of 6/8/11).
...
Israel may be a possibility, but there is apparently no mention of this case whatsoever in Haaretz.

I appreciate the creative thinking, but with all due respect, the idea that she's off traveling in Israel with the help of some group that aids penniless immigrants seems to me to be extremely low on the list of likely outcomes here.
 
I appreciate the creative thinking, but with all due respect, the idea that she's off traveling in Israel with the help of some group that aids penniless immigrants seems to me to be extremely low on the list of likely outcomes here.

I also find it a really presumptuous and strange assumption that just because she is Jewish and has been to Israel she may have runaway to Israel.

It really doesn't seem that she would have had to sneak away to Israel. Lauren, like many Jewish young adults who have a demonstrated relationship with Israel, would be allowed to go there freely if she wanted to as it seems her parents are supportive of her traveling.
 
1) Did the 3:38 witness look at the photo of AB? Can she confirm if this is the dark man she said was carrying LS over his shoulder? Since you have his photo posted on your blog, it would seem this to be an obvious question.

I don't know. After I spoke to her, someone got to her, cause she will not longer talk to me.

2) That dialogue has a far more serious discussion about cocaine than theorized about on WS threads. That discussion is rather far reaching implicating JR and CR well beyond ordinary partying. From what you know, is cocaine use as prevalent and in as high supply as this discussion indicated? Are there credible reports saying that CR and JR were coke dealers?
There is talk -- but I have no proof of cocaine at all.

3) The discussion said that ZO had also previously been in trouble at Smallwood, is that true?
A source says he actually was living at Smallwood and got kicked out

4) Your blog is where I first saw ZO identified. (Thanks for that!) And the connections you revealed are interesting. But still puzzling is WHY did ZO hit CR? It's still being downplayed. Why did smallwood management's statements come out almost in defense of ZO while his name was suppressed until it turns up on your blog!
Don't know what Smallwood statement you're talking about. I'm being told not JW sending out a posse or about Lauren

5) I've seen the reference to Xanax (particularly at Kilroys) in a few different places. And here in that discussion it pops up again. Is there any corroboration from Bartenders or others at Kilroys that LS had made comments about taking a lot of Xanax that night?
Bar manager witness is not from Kilroy's separate source says Lauren was talking about taking the drugs

6) Has LE searched ZO/AB's place?
I have no idea.

7) In that discussion one of the posters seemed to be implying a connection between ZO/AB and DR. Is there anything to back that up.
Not that I have. There is a connection to JR

8) is there anything to suggest that CR/LS were NOT headed to CR/MB's after leaving Smallwood?
no, but who knows

9) In the discussion one poster seems to think that LE has a lot more video evidence. I think that there is some video evidence that hasn't been announced by LE yet. Do you agree?
Police have said they have hundreds of hours of video

10) a poster said that ALL of the key players had retained their attorneys BEFORE LS was reported missing. Is there a way to verify this? That seems hard to believe given the already quick nature of the police report filing..but I just don't know
 
I think it bears repeating that although she was last seen on video at 2:51 a.m. this can be due to the fact there are no video security cameras between the 2:51 one and 5 North.

Just because she is not seen after 2:51 does not mean she never made it to 5 North.
 
I am new here, and have been lurking here awhile, my insight might not be helpful but its just a few thoughts.
I went to ASU , and they had connections with other Jewish groups (i.e Hillel and Chabad) which give free student trips to Israel. It's not hard to get involved and go on those trips. But we shouldn't look at her travelling to foreign lands.

Why shouldn't we?

It takes a long while to go through the process, so her family would have to know about it

Not necessarily.

and in many cases when someone leaves to go to a foreign land, they tell someone and there is a paper trail.

Maybe LS did hint at wanting to live in Israel to someone, but they didn't pick up on it.
 
Why shouldn't we?



Not necessarily.



Maybe LS did hint at wanting to live in Israel to someone, but they didn't pick up on it.

I don't see why Lauren's family would not have allowed her to move to Israel, if she had indicated a desire to do so...
 
This Israel talk is CRAZY! You're telling me she got a ride to Chicago after all this and then somehow got on an El-AL flight to Ben Gurion airport -- still with no shoes on?.

After all what?

Her academic work was all completed. Her relationship with JW was falling apart. She had no close friends at IU. She has been independent from her family for many years (at the summer camps, etc).

She could pick up a pair of flip-flops for $2.

And, she is 20, not a child.

And this because she's Jewish. She's also white, so maybe she's with white supremesists in Idaho.

Israel does have programs which allow American students to stay in a kibbutz, which is a rural commune.

OR maybe LS met a new bf in Israel, and that explains her recent break-up with JW.
 
Why shouldn't we?



Not necessarily.



Maybe LS did hint at wanting to live in Israel to someone, but they didn't pick up on it.

Many scenarios are within the realm of possibilities.
Every indication is that LS loved her family and was in communication with them on a daily basis. It would be very far outside the "norm" for her to abandon everyone she knows and everything that she owns for any reason.

So..while you may chose to explore the improbable possibilities, I'm staying focused on what seems obvious and more likely based on facts and evidence.

Hopefully she will show up alive somewhere but I'm not searching for her in that way.
Good Luck
 
I don't see why Lauren's family would not have allowed her to move to Israel, if she had indicated a desire to do so...

People run away for different reasons.

In any case, this case should be publicized in Israel, at least in the areas where she had traveled.
 
Many scenarios are within the realm of possibilities.
Every indication is that LS loved her family and was in communication with them on a daily basis.

A daily basis? That is a bit much for a 20 year old who lives away from home.

We don't understand why people sometimes run away from their lives, but they don't necessarily hate their families.


It would be very far outside the "norm" for her to abandon everyone she knows and everything that she owns for any reason.

Her college friends all turning out to be raving dope fiends who kill her and dump her body in the lake is outside the norm, too.


So..while you may chose to explore the improbable possibilities,

According to Sherlock Holmes, once we eliminate that which is impossible, the remaining explanation, no matter how improbable, must be true.

I'm staying focused on what seems obvious and more likely based on facts and evidence.

Where is the evidence that these POI were drug dealers?
 
People run away for different reasons.

In any case, this case should be publicized in Israel, at least in the areas where she had traveled.

I completely agree with the first sentence.
But your theory that she left barefoot, no shoes,phone, keys or ID, intoxicated and in the middle of the night to hop a plane to Israel is too far fetched. How did she get to the airport? If any one of her friends had brought her there, i believe they would have told LE. I highly doubt that publicizing the case in Israel could help at all.
 
A daily basis? That is a bit much for a 20 year old who lives away from home.

You'd be surprised. I'm 41, my mother cannot go a day without calling, even when my parents are thousands of miles away on holidays she calls me every single day.
 
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