IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #17

[Barry]

The question that keeps coming into my mind is *why* was ZO, and any others with him, there to begin with?

 

[WideOpen]

CR is on a no trespass list. But, does this statement mean they have 24 hr surveillance that is monitored by humans on/off site?

"We are not a lock-down facility," Reno said. "In terms of coming and going, if (Rossman) were to come in escorted by a resident and they were to come in quickly past personnel, well, we're not monitoring every person that comes and goes."

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/loca...r-on-night-she-disappeared-submits-dna-sample

 

[Tr.]

In this scenario most of the same things could have happened to LS as has been theorized; accident, rape, abduction, or drug interactions/OD, etc
But it's a lot different thinking of LS as barely able to stand at 3:00 with her mind going blank vs. her wanting to "party" So, again I come to this pivotal statement of MB's that does seem inconsistent with the sequence and what was happening to CR. And also again... who exactly was there in CR/MB's at 3:00am? I do recall it being attributed to JR (that's when LS was supposedly leaving his place) that he said if she could walk she could leave. If at least that part were true, what would he have observed to cause him to say that?

Yes, different indeed.
I've reduced the list of ten down to four...where you at?

 

[Tr.]

I also mentioned at one point for example if JW and LS did have a fight later that morning and something happened "accidentally" or even things went too far....he was her boyfriend....he supposedly loved her for years....could he have maybe brought her body to someplace only "special" to the two of them? Someplace only they knew about?
I'm not saying he is the one that killed her, but if he was w/ her when she died or did have her body after, it doesn't automatically mean he "dumped" her somewhere. Maybe he wasn't that cold hearted, but something horrible happened and the girl he loved was now "gone" and he brought her and "laid her to rest" somewhere only they knew about.
Just a theory.
I only wish if something like this happened....her family could still have closure. It's not fair to them at all.

It's a good theory too...the "secret place".
He would have loved her a lot to do that....and maybe it was a place that she made him promise to take her and never tell anyone about should anything bad ever happen.
A lover's pact....

If that did happen I hope that he realizes how much her family loves her too and the pain that their in and then does the right thing by them.

 

[Tr.]

CR is on a no trespass list. But, does this statement mean they have 24 hr surveillance that is monitored by humans on/off site?

"We are not a lock-down facility," Reno said. "In terms of coming and going, if (Rossman) were to come in escorted by a resident and they were to come in quickly past personnel, well, we're not monitoring every person that comes and goes."

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/loca...r-on-night-she-disappeared-submits-dna-sample

As I understand it they have a security office in the building that at the time of LS's disappearance was not staffed round the clock.

I doubt CR was worried about being seen at Smallwood.
Maybe ZO was as equally indifferent to the Smallwood security cameras.

Seems like a lot of people live in that building...I heard 700..not sure that's an accurate number.

 

[VeryVeritas]

CR is on a no trespass list. But, does this statement mean they have 24 hr surveillance that is monitored by humans on/off site?

"We are not a lock-down facility," Reno said. "In terms of coming and going, if (Rossman) were to come in escorted by a resident and they were to come in quickly past personnel, well, we're not monitoring every person that comes and goes."

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/loca...r-on-night-she-disappeared-submits-dna-sample

Are you suggesting that ZO and company are part of the Smallwood staff?

 

[VeryVeritas]

Yes, different indeed.
I've reduced the list of ten down to four...where you at?

Seems I'm pretty much down to MB and JR lying and LS either blacking out and dying something like around 3:00 to 3:30 or partying and dying around the same time. My gut feeling is that if CR/LS made it to CR/MB's that someone helped her to JR's or coaxed her there. If she was already unconscious someone might have slung her over their shoulder and brought her to JR's, perhaps JR himself. Either way then someone is faced with getting her out of there. On Thursday when discussing 5 north, it was said that each unit has a separate entrance to the street, so there is no common entry point. Not sure at the moment which way the balcony faces, but I'm thinking she either gets brought right out the front door onto 11th (with someone watching from JR's above (maybe himself) to make sure the coast is clear. and then put into a vehicle right there.

I think the idea CR/LS being involuntarily drugged is possible, but there is no solid proof of that. If that were the case, then it would have been premeditated something and then this would all take a different direction.
Disappearing in the gravel lot between Alley and CR/MB's makes MB and JR liars so it doesn't matter if she disappeared there or died in 5 North, either way they are involved. They are only "not involved" if JR is telling the truth about her rounding that corner. I don't buy it. While a lot of things are still possible(including her being alive) without more information or evidence it seems like the most likely thing is that she died at 5 north, and probably at least 2 people knew about it, while only 1 may have dealt with the body.

 

[goodgirl65]

From the facts as we know them, is there anyway to differentiate clues in this case that would point to:
Rophynol vs. GHB vs. sudden high amounts of BA vs. Xanax vs. some combination?

high amounts of alcohol could be determined by finding out from Sports what CR/LS were drinking and/or check their bankcard charges.

I'm guessing a combination might have caused someone to black out much sooner... like if someone were already high from a mix of xanax and coke as speculated, then put down a few ounces of alcohol but someone slipped in GHB they probably wouldn't get out of the bar 20 minutes later?
Thanks!!

BBM

Who's to say they werent drinking and drugging even earlier in the night while watching the game, perhaps coke and booze....then later taking a xanax right before or at bar...that would explain the effects taking place for CR around the time they left the bar..perhaps LS didnt do as large an amount(but enough to leave her shoes/phone behind) and wanted to go back to JR's to get more coke to counteract the effects of the xanax.

Specualtion of course...

 

[webrocket]

Yet someone made a 4:15 call and LS is *poof - gone. Not everyone has amnesia. MB certainly didn't, he studied and scored well on a test.

people can do many things in a blackout like make phone calls, get into fights, drive vehicles, have sex, etc. they just don't remember much if anything about it.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

From the facts as we know them, is there anyway to differentiate clues in this case that would point to:
Rophynol vs. GHB vs. sudden high amounts of BA vs. Xanax vs. some combination?

high amounts of alcohol could be determined by finding out from Sports what CR/LS were drinking and/or check their bankcard charges.

I'm guessing a combination might have caused someone to black out much sooner... like if someone were already high from a mix of xanax and coke as speculated, then put down a few ounces of alcohol but someone slipped in GHB they probably wouldn't get out of the bar 20 minutes later?


Thanks!!

Re: your first paragraph - I'm not sure, offhand. One problem I'm having is that my understanding of the Xanax situation is that they were possibly taking not Xanax itself but possibly Xanax bars, which contain substances besides alprazolam.

But yes, you are right about the combined effects of alcohol and xanax - both are CNS depressants (http://www.rxlist.com/xanax-drug.htm). Interestingly enough, although each substance on its own is anxiolytic (anti-anxiety), when benzodiazepines (Xanax belongs to this class of drugs) are mixed with alcohol, they are anxiogenic (anxiety-producing) (Lister & File, 1983, J Clin Psychopharmacol). I thought that that was interesting since there have been questions about participants' possible mental or emotional states during the hours around LS's disappearance.

Sorry this only answers part of the questions - I have an experiment to start at 10 and I gotta get my butt in gear, but as soon as that is underway I will work on the rest.

 

[jenniek]

thinking back I remember someone posting a link to the IU student newspaper and AB was a student and I think maybe even an editor at some point. Don't know how that slipped my mind!

 

[mibright]

My jaw is on the floor --

"Landfill not yet searched in Spierer case"

In the six-week-long investigation into the disappearance of Indiana University student Lauren Spierer, Bloomington police have not searched the landfill just south of Terre Haute where Bloomington’s city trash is hauled. . . .

Qualters noted Bloomington police have not searched a landfill in his 24 years with the department. “From my limited knowledge, it seems to be a very labor-intensive process and that would seem to translate to a potentially costly endeavor,” he stated by email. "

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/16/news.qp-0661144.sto

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

My jaw is on the floor --

"Landfill not yet searched in Spierer case"

In the six-week-long investigation into the disappearance of Indiana University student Lauren Spierer, Bloomington police have not searched the landfill just south of Terre Haute where Bloomington’s city trash is hauled. . . .

Qualters noted Bloomington police have not searched a landfill in his 24 years with the department. “From my limited knowledge, it seems to be a very labor-intensive process and that would seem to translate to a potentially costly endeavor,” he stated by email. "

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/16/news.qp-0661144.sto

I can't read the article without subscribing, but...what?! I'm scraping my jaw off the floor, too.

 

[mibright]

You can read the comments of the article without subscribing. Sometimes they are just as informative if not more than that article.

 

[Gabby66]

But IF he was taking pills(such as xanax) then he most likely wouldn't remember anything. Xanax bars are like memory erasers and if you combine them with alcohol then you may as well multiply that by 10.


* Gah. That's what I get for not completely reading your post. You do acknowledge it could be drug-induced type amnesia...tho you don't seem to sound like you think it likely. I guess I seem to think that is the likely scenerio as there was talk of LS saying she had taken a bunch of xanax,and then wasn't there talk of it on some of the POI's fb?

I wouldn't say that I think it's likely - or not unlikely. I think it's possible The only thing that really leans me to the "more than just possible side" is didn't he pass a lie detector test? If so, I'd think the amnesia would have been proven to be true, but we don't know for a fact. IMO he was just probably drunk, and combined with a Xanex, probably very tired. Many people know what it's like to wake up after a drunken night and not recall the details of the night before, however I think there are things that are still "hazy". I just honestly think that this was his state of mind and they used the word "amnesia" as a convenient, legal way to get around not having to talk. Attorneys will come up with terms that are legal and honest as defenses, even though the may not paint the most accurate picture. I mean really, it sounds much better to say, "My client was punched in the face and now he has amnesia" than to say, "My client got really drunk and took some drugs, got punched in the face, and woke up the next morning, unable to remember what happened." If the first one is factual, he's not saying for fact that the punch caused his amnesia. It just paints a much better picture of his client, which is his job.

 

[imkeylime]

I can't read the article without subscribing, but...what?! I'm scraping my jaw off the floor, too.

It's appalling to think that economics trump life, isn't it? I've followed an old case in MI for years (Oakland County Child Killer) because I was a scared teen there at the time ... it still haunts me as a middle-aged adult. I recently read that the father of the last victim paid $11,000 to have sealed info released when the county wouldn't because of economics. He said the $11,000 would have been his son's college money, which broke my heart.

I can only say that the penalty for mishandling a case should be just as costly as pulling out all the stops to find the victim/perpetrator.

In this case, I'd surely expects all landfills to be checked.

 

[jjenny]

Even though it was reported the dumpsters were checked-the question remains as to when they were checked? If police didn't get to them in time, and landfill was not searched, then the possibility remains the body is in the landfill.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Correction to my earlier post - Xanax bars are apparently not adulterated. They are just the highest available single-pill dosage of alprazolam . Sorry about that!

 

[imkeylime]

If a friend died accidently and suddenly from drugs, etc... but you really did care about this person and had some respect for them wouldn't you treat the body differently? A lot of the ideas about where to find a body seem cold hearted. What if the person had a soul, and just felt it had to be covered up so it wouldn't get pinned on them? When I put myself in that mindset, I'd be thinking - Cemetery, mausoleum.

Or maybe someplace they'd been to before? I know Lake Monroe has been searched, for example, but perhaps there are summer homes/cottages one of the POIs might have access to? Breaking in to one to hide a body would be risky, obviously, but what if a POI knew of a property with a shed or something? A long shot, I realize ...

 

[Gabby66]

I've read comments from people feeling that the guys would have known about the cameras. I'm curious how many here feel that's true. I guess that I'm TOTALLY oblivious to cameras anywhere and interestingly enough, since reading about this case, I've started noticing them places. Maybe if I were a college kid planning to throw punches, or planning to do drugs on the street, I'd think differently. But I guess that I just don't view these kids are criminals in the murdering sense, but perhaps in the drug dealing sense. I think every dealer knows not to deal on the street in plain sight, and doesn't need to be aware of cameras. Therefore, I guess I'm asking those of you here, who are still in college......are kids even really aware of cameras, and if so, would they really know where all of them are located? It seems to me that some of the theories mentioned in these threads would involve people knowing an exact route to take, to avoid cameras. Unless they were keenly aware of their locations, it sure would be a huge coincidence. I just kinda feel as though whatever happened wasn't pre-planned, at least not for LS. Maybe there was a pre-planned fight for CR but whatever happened to LS, I believe was an accident. So...going back to the cameras, if it was an accident, I just don't think that it "accidentally" happened right in a spot where there were no cameras. While I still think it's very possible that there was a fight in the lot and she got punched by accident, and died (b/c of her small size), I still think that someone somewhere would have seen or heard something. And if JR wasn't involved in that, I really don't think he'd lie for them. Most anywhere else she was, there were cameras (unless she did leave to go to JW's....it's been described here that there was a way to get there without being seen on camera, by crossing College. Again, this would have been a very coincidental route, though, that she managed to take the exact steps to not be seen on camera). Therefore, this takes me back to the theory of something happening inside JR's. I believe others were involved in the cover up, but I am leaning more towards something happening at his place, because anywhere else would have either:

1. shown up on camera
2. been too much of a coincidence to not show up on camera (unlikely)
3. been pre-meditated b/c I don't think in the haste of a non-planned crime, people would be aware of locations and cameras (again, I do not think if she was murdered, it was an accident).

This also takes me back to the OD theory. Some have felt that she OD'd on the street. Again, what are the chances that her body would just happen to wait for that, out of camera's range? Yes, I know some will say "What are the chances that she'd wait for it to happen at JR's?" I'm just pointing out the coincidence of it all. When you're only walking for10 mins., and mostly on camera, it doesn't seem likely that you'd just happen to OD OFF camera. When you're at 5 North for 1 1/2 hours, with no cameras anywhere, the odds are higher. That's all.