IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #19

[TonyGatto]

Well, that is not very concrete is it? There is the unaccounted time he had, about 8 hours by my estimation. He didn't have to drive his vehicle there, even if he did is it possible he had access to a roommates vehicle? Somebody brings up Onstar, did you install it on his vehicle yourself to know this? Even if it was installed, there is still a service charge on it. It is also not a far walk, without any cameras on the route from his place toward the area that we know LS was in that night.. He could of taken any number of routes into that area. Also, why would anyone be looking for him if he is randomly out at 4AM? Oh there's JW, let me file that away in my memory that he was out early in the morning. Seriously? IF that all it takes to get away with a crime in your mind then I'm glad you chose the profession you did. You have a witness that claims TO HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN LS in the area and how sure are you of her accuracy?
I'm not trying to say JW is guilty of anything, but I know LE is still taking a hard look at him and even if they were not, I still would be looking at all the angles.
Also please don't take this post personal, I just don't get how a picnic basket goes missing in the woods and nobody even suspects yogi bear.

I have no idea why you are bringing up the 3:38 witness -- but in answer to your question as to whether her information is accurate, of course I can't be sure of that. Eight hours unaccounted? Helps support my argument that he probably was home. You have not provided any evidence that he was anywhere near the scene of the crime, Smallwood or 5 North and points in-between, on the night of June 2 and in the early morning hours of June 3, while we know that at least four other PIOs were.

 

[Frogzilla]

I have no idea why you are bringing up the 3:38 witness -- but in answer to your question as to whether her information is accurate, of course I can't be sure of that. Eight hours unaccounted? Helps support my argument that he probably was home. You have not provided any evidence that he was anywhere near the scene of the crime, Smallwood or 5 North and points in-between, on the night of June 2 and in the early morning hours of June 3, while we know that at least four other PIOs were.

LOL ok, I bring up the witness because you stated that people would of seen JW out in the area during the wee hours of the morning. I tried to contrast that by saying you have a witness who claims to have ACTUALLY SEEN LS and you cannot be very sure how accurate her account is. So somebody who is recalling events of their night and it dawns on them they may have witnessed an event in the night that somebody disappeared, after they are fully aware of who this person is. In contrast, why would anybody actually pay attention to JW movements that night. THERE IS NOT A SOUL who has accounted for the gap of unaccounted time in JW timeframe, only his roommate, who I have no idea who he really is because he was posting on PT thread. Also 8 hours of unaccounted time in the time frame of his girlfriend disappearing and that does not bother you? Yikes.

 

[OldSteve]

I really hope not. It would be a crying shame because as in every case where a body isn't found, this doesn't lessen the damage of the crime at all.

Agree it would be a terrible shame! Sadly many of cases I've been watching seem to be going that way.

Because of the mobility of the POI's - watching and catching any involved with drugs will be more difficult - making my belief that if LS did OD and this is way to break the case very much more difficult...

 

[British]

I have no idea why you are bringing up the 3:38 witness -- but in answer to your question as to whether her information is accurate, of course I can't be sure of that. Eight hours unaccounted? Helps support my argument that he probably was home. You have not provided any evidence that he was anywhere near the scene of the crime, Smallwood or 5 North and points in-between, on the night of June 2 and in the early morning hours of June 3, while we know that at least four other PIOs were.

Exactly. I agree that there is nothing to suggest any involvement of JW, except pure speculation. I am little surprised that BPD has not officially cleared him yet. My assumption is that they hope to find the body and, if they can, do DNA analysis at that time (if any material is found) with the hope to definitively identify a suspect (s) and definitively exclude others.

 

[Berk13]

I have a theory that after the night LS had she easily may have decided to walk to JW's to get some sleep or help getting into her apartment. I think of many times I have had to call an ex boyfriend for help in someway-at this time of night JW being Laurens tried and true friend she would have picked him to "save her" from her drunkeness and lost keys. The guys probably had an open front door she could have easily walked in and fone to his room and woke him without a commotion at this time of morning.
JMO

I've thought about this scenario, too. When I was an undergrad I had a boyfriend who lived at 8th & Lincoln (not that far from 9th & Fess, where JW lived) and I would often walk to his house alone after a night at the bars (3 a.m.). I would start on Walnut St. and go to 8th, then take 8th all the way to Lincoln. Also, I knew a group of girls who lived at 9th & Indiana and they also walked home alone very late at night/early in the morning, and they took 9th St. Sometimes they were together, sometimes they were alone.

I know others have speculated that if she walked to JW's she would've taken 10th St. since it's well-lit, but because of my personal experience and several friends who used to do the same thing as me (take 7th or 8th or 9th to walk to a boyfriend's house rather than staying on well-lit 10th), I personally think she could have very well walked down 9th Street to get to his house, if in fact she tried to walk there. I think we've established that most students feel very safe in the "Bloomington bubble", so why not take the most direct route? There wouldn't be cameras on 9th, but is it possible a camera somewhere between 11th & College (last reported sighting by JR) and 9th & Fess would've caught her walking? Maybe a camera for a business on College or Walnut? If police saw her on-camera heading in that direction I feel like they would've included it in the official timeline of events.

Does anyone know if there are cameras at the Mathers Museum? (across the street from JW's) If so, would they be able to catch things on the street, or are they just pointing directly at the museum? I can't go out and check it myself today, but if no one knows I'll try to make it out there tomorrow and take some pictures if there are cameras.

 

[TonyGatto]

LOL ok, I bring up the witness because you stated that people would of seen JW out in the area during the wee hours of the morning. I tried to contrast that by saying you have a witness who claims to have ACTUALLY SEEN LS and you cannot be very sure how accurate her account is. So somebody who is recalling events of their night and it dawns on them they may have witnessed an event in the night that somebody disappeared, after they are fully aware of who this person is. In contrast, why would anybody actually pay attention to JW movements that night. THERE IS NOT A SOUL who has accounted for the gap of unaccounted time in JW timeframe, only his roommate, who I have no idea who he really is because he was posting on PT thread. Also 8 hours of unaccounted time in the time frame of his girlfriend disappearing and that does not bother you? Yikes.

I guess I would like to know more about your scenario. Does LS walk up to his house? Does he head down to College Ave and confront LS? Does this happen just after 2:51 because he already knows what's up? Most importantly do you believe the 4:30 walking around the corner statement, in which case, JW would confront LS on College Ave, just south of 11th st?

 

[Darcyline]

I think LE is doing a fabulous job by NOT clearing people they cannot clear with certainty. The problem with JW's alibi is that it rests solely on someone claims I was in bed at 230 and then I swear I didn't leave. It is probably true that that happened, but I also see how it is easy to say well...what if he crawled out a window? What if Lauren crawled in the window? What if the roommate went to bed and he left after the roomie was asleep? Or Lauren came?
I myself cannot say with 110% certainty that none of those happened. LE likely feels the same way. JW has probably the clearest motive that LE has seen and he was in walking distance of where Lauren was. I would think them slightly incompetent if they didn't look very long and hard at him. I would rather them be safe than just assume one of these guys is telling the truth when it cannot be verified 110%.

That being said, he is pretty low on the list of possibilities for me-right above runaway to Europe or stepped in a big hole or something.

 

[TonyGatto]

I've thought about this scenario, too. When I was an undergrad I had a boyfriend who lived at 8th & Lincoln (not that far from 9th & Fess, where JW lived) and I would often walk to his house alone after a night at the bars (3 a.m.). I would start on Walnut St. and go to 8th, then take 8th all the way to Lincoln.

I know others have speculated that if she walked to JW's she would've taken 10th St. since it's well-lit, but because of my personal experience and several friends who used to do the same thing as me (take 7th or 8th or 9th to walk to a boyfriend's house rather than staying on well-lit 10th), I personally think she could have very well walked down 9th Street to get to his house, if in fact she tried to walk there. I think we've established that most students feel very safe in the "Bloomington bubble", so why not take the most direct route? There wouldn't be cameras on 9th, but is it possible a camera somewhere between 11th & College (last reported sighting by JR) and 9th & Fess would've caught her walking? Maybe a camera for a business on College or Walnut? If police saw her on-camera heading in that direction I feel like they would've included it in the official timeline of events.

Does anyone know if there are cameras at the Mathers Museum? (across the street from JW's) If so, would they be able to catch things on the street, or are they just pointing directly at the museum? I can't go out and check it myself today, but if no one knows I'll try to make it out there tomorrow and take some pictures if there are cameras.

Take into consideration all the reports on Lauren's condition. Did you ever make the trip in that state, barefoot, without your phone for hours and having lost your keys on the street?

 

[Darcyline]

Take into consideration all the reports on Lauren's condition. Did you ever make the trip in that state, barefoot, without your phone for hours and having lost your keys on the street?

I have definitely shown up a huge, drunk, crying, stoned mess at my boyfriend's doorstep before. Luckily he loves me so it was usually cool, but I think you may underestimate the power/emotions of an emotional girl late at night.

I doubt that happened, but me doubting it happened doesn't make it impossible.

 

[TonyGatto]

I have definitely shown up a huge, drunk, crying, stoned mess at my boyfriend's doorstep before. Luckily he loves me so it was usually cool, but I think you may underestimate the power/emotions of an emotional girl late at night.

I doubt that happened, but me doubting it happened doesn't make it impossible.

OK. I hear ya. JMO: I have huge trouble believing the statement that she was seen turning the corner at 4:30. I just can't entertain the idea that she made it all the way to JW's house.

 

[Frogzilla]

I guess I would like to know more about your scenario. Does LS walk up to his house? Does he head down to College Ave and confront LS? Does this happen just after 2:51 because he already knows what's up? Most importantly do you believe the 4:30 walking around the corner statement, in which case, JW would confront LS on College Ave, just south of 11th st?

Think you just answered your own questions. it wasn't hard for you to think of a few scenarios in a short time, so do I even need to speculate the multiple ways JW could of inserted himself into the night?

 

[Jupiter812]

I've thought about this scenario, too. When I was an undergrad I had a boyfriend who lived at 8th & Lincoln (not that far from 9th & Fess, where JW lived) and I would often walk to his house alone after a night at the bars (3 a.m.). I would start on Walnut St. and go to 8th, then take 8th all the way to Lincoln. Also, I knew a group of girls who lived at 9th & Indiana and they also walked home alone very late at night/early in the morning, and they took 9th St. Sometimes they were together, sometimes they were alone.

I know others have speculated that if she walked to JW's she would've taken 10th St. since it's well-lit, but because of my personal experience and several friends who used to do the same thing as me (take 7th or 8th or 9th to walk to a boyfriend's house rather than staying on well-lit 10th), I personally think she could have very well walked down 9th Street to get to his house, if in fact she tried to walk there. I think we've established that most students feel very safe in the "Bloomington bubble", so why not take the most direct route? There wouldn't be cameras on 9th, but is it possible a camera somewhere between 11th & College (last reported sighting by JR) and 9th & Fess would've caught her walking? Maybe a camera for a business on College or Walnut? If police saw her on-camera heading in that direction I feel like they would've included it in the official timeline of events.

Does anyone know if there are cameras at the Mathers Museum? (across the street from JW's) If so, would they be able to catch things on the street, or are they just pointing directly at the museum? I can't go out and check it myself today, but if no one knows I'll try to make it out there tomorrow and take some pictures if there are cameras.

I spent a little time in the parking lot across the street from JW's house to take a few pics and to look for cameras. I did not see any on that side (west and north) of the museum.

 

[Darcyline]

OK. I hear ya. JMO: I have huge trouble believing the statement that she was seen turning the corner at 4:30. I just can't entertain the idea that she made it all the way to JW's house.

I agree with you. I really don't think she even left that building alive right now or if she did it was to a closer building near JR's place, but I am having that moment of I don't want to completely discount anything.



(By the way I promise I am not a huge crying mess anymore-grew up, kept the same kind boyfriend, wish Lauren would have that same chance to grow up)

 

[Jupiter812]

I know others have speculated that if she walked to JW's she would've taken 10th St. since it's well-lit, but because of my personal experience and several friends who used to do the same thing as me (take 7th or 8th or 9th to walk to a boyfriend's house rather than staying on well-lit 10th), I personally think she could have very well walked down 9th Street to get to his house, if in fact she tried to walk there. I think we've established that most students feel very safe in the "Bloomington bubble", so why not take the most direct route? There wouldn't be cameras on 9th, but is it possible a camera somewhere between 11th & College (last reported sighting by JR) and 9th & Fess would've caught her walking? Maybe a camera for a business on College or Walnut? If police saw her on-camera heading in that direction I feel like they would've included it in the official timeline of events.

Totally agree with you about the route.

 

[cluciano63]

LE agreed at one point that JW was a POI and as far as I know have not since said he is no longer a POI.

As far as LE making any arrests with charges regarding Lauren's disappearance, I don't think it will happen. There are many cases similar to this, with a very suspicious POI or even suspect, that have not moved forward at all without the victim being found. Regardless of the comparitively few number of crimes prosecuted without a body, LE does not do this as a rule. It is the exception and usually there is a something of a crime scene left behind.

 

[Jupiter812]

If she went to the well-known dealer's house (I believe Northsider did say "house") that house could be closer to JW's than JR's.

 

[Jupiter812]

JW's house at Fess and 9th.

 

[Jupiter812]

There hasn't been as much speculation about Northsider's rumor as I would expect. Yesterday I read a post on PT that she was doing drugs with "three guys not necessarily friends" and she died there. These two rumors seem like they could be the same account. But it becomes tiresome starting all over with each new rumor that comes across the board, doesn't it? We come back to what little we know.

 

[northsider]

Does anyone think that ZO and others were at JR's apartment at 5 North during the 12:30-1:30 AM period?

 

[Btown]

I personally think she could have very well walked down 9th Street to get to his house, if in fact she tried to walk there. I think we've established that most students feel very safe in the "Bloomington bubble", so why not take the most direct route? There wouldn't be cameras on 9th, but is it possible a camera somewhere between 11th & College (last reported sighting by JR) and 9th & Fess would've caught her walking? Maybe a camera for a business on College or Walnut? If police saw her on-camera heading in that direction I feel like they would've included it in the official timeline of events.

There is a camera at 420 N Walnut that would have shown her up going up 9th as she crossed Walnut if she was on the south side of 9th.
There are cameras at 501 N. Walnut that would have shown her going up the north side of 9th.
The video was turned in to LE mid June.

There is a camera on the back side of Attorney Salzman building that would have shown her going up 10th toward walnut if she was on the north side of 10th. The video was turned into LE in mid June.

There are no cameras on the south side of 10th going from College toward Walnut.

If she had gone up the south side of 10th to Walnut, (closest to Waffle House), and turned south down Walnut staying on the west side, the camera at 501 N. Walnut would have picked her up. The video was turned in to LE mid June.

If she had gone up the south side of 10th to Walnut , (closest to Waffle House), and turned south down Walnut staying on the east side, the cameras at 420 N. Walnut would have picked her up. The video was turned in to LE in mid June.

Does anyone know if there are cameras at the Mathers Museum? (across the street from JW's) If so, would they be able to catch things on the street, or are they just pointing directly at the museum?

No cameras at Mathers outside that I've seen.