IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #2

[VeryVeritas]

Hmm. Doesn't anyone remember Mike Nifong? I am not saying all prosecutors are like that, but sometimes people trust too much that police and prosecutors are going to do the right thing.

This is very true - Everyone has a different objective. LE wants to Solve the case and pin it on someone. Unfortunately, they look bad if they can't solve the case vs. pin it on someone who simply looks guilty and they have enough circumstantial evidence to pin it on them. Essentially, our systems says a person is innocent until proven guilty. However, if you have no alibi, have no memory, were the last person to see someone alive, etc... Those are gaping opportunities for circumstantial evidence to be shaped into an arrow that points at you. Being innocent but vulernable in this way then should cause someone to WANT to help solve the case so they themselves aren't falsely accused. Yet in doing so, "anything they say, can and will be used against them" so they need to proceed with caution. Others who know they have no involvement may choose a strategy to just stay the hell away from it all so they can't be implicated in any way. The Prosecutors role is different, they need a package of evidence that is solid enough to give them a conviction. Grand Juries regularly review evidence and determine that there just isn't enough to go on - even if someone may be fully guilty. There has to be sufficient evidence to not only have a trial but have a high probability of convincing a jury to convict. Aside from cases where people are framed, evidence planted or tampered with by LE or others, it's not so easy or cut and dry to "do the right thing." There is a lot of pressure to solve the thing, but there aren't infinite resources or infinite time available, if there were, every case would be solved and no innocents would be charged or convicted, and all guilty would be caught. But this isn't a perfect world. Our system juxtaposes these pressures of LE, Prosectors, and defendants (and if the defendants of $$ things move quite differently). Like all of our legal system it boils down to various compromises, and this is something that media loves to leverage and ratchet on people's emotions. We all have a sense of justice, and most of us have an ideal sense of justice. Yet in the world of compromises it always seems infuriating that guilty go free, innocents are charged or serve time, or pedophile teachers are suspended with pay for example. It is an imperfect machinery that balances our rights against the need for justice.

Even so, it can work better than it does. The more all people are involved in supporting and scrutinizing all aspects of the legal process (including what goes on in prisons and how inmates are treated) the better the machinery can work. Like most other problems in life and especially with human beings, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[kissdegirl]

It is just so odd she somehow lost track of every single item she seemed to have had that night...odds are you would end up with something...

The song Tequila Makes Her Clothes Fall Off comes to mind. I've never been that inebriated that I could simultaneously lose all my accessories AND walk someone home. It sounds like these young people are very used to living that way though.

Losing her change purse and keys on the walk though suggests to me there may have been something going on between LS and CR on the walk through the alley. Whether or not he was being overly flirtatious or whether she was reciprocating his actions remain to be seen (perhaps that's why LE won't release the video)? If he was aggressive with her at all, I don't doubt she wanted out of his apt as soon as she got him there, assuming she ever made it that far.

I would love to know what the topic of conversation was between her and JR though. I wonder if his apt door was open, or his light was on and she decided to stop and say hello or what.

Hopefully LE will narrow the POI list soon...there's got to be something on the area video's that they'll see. Someone left with her one way or another, sometime after she was seen on camera after 3am.

 

[epiphany]

One of them left the day after Lauren's disappearance. If they left the state, then they may not know at all. I'm not sure her disappearance has been heavily covered outside of the area.



You know, I've been thinking about this.

Let's say you lived in the building and didn't hear anything, didn't see anything, etc. Most of us would call the police and tell them just that; we'd think we were being helpful. I'm not sure the average person would though. They'd think they have nothing to contribute.

We don't even know if these two POIs exist, much less if they know the police want to talk with them, much less if they actually saw or heard anything. There is a lot of speculation on this, I just prefer to stick to the facts I guess.

Respectfully, BBM

They exist and they do know:

Police said Sunday that some of the 10 "persons of interest" who interacted with Spierer the morning she disappeared have yet to speak with authorities, despite efforts to contact them.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

 

[kemo]

This new development is pretty significant. The report doesn't say what time of the morning this occured. If it was say between 2:30 and 4:30 it would be a bombshell but if it were after JW had started calling people saying that LS was "missing", it wouldn't mean much of anything. I'm wondering if this Malone isn't the guy who bumped into MB and CR in the CVS.

 

[PaulR]

Respectfully, BBM

They exist and they do know:

Police said Sunday that some of the 10 "persons of interest" who interacted with Spierer the morning she disappeared have yet to speak with authorities, despite efforts to contact them.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

Ah, I see. I read that as they've tried to contact them but been unsuccessful, meaning those POI don't know. You are reading it as the police did contact them but they haven't spoken to the police yet. I wish the article was more specific :waitasec:

If the POI were out-of-town, could the police interview them over the phone? I realize that's not ideal but time is of the essence, if they know something I would not want to wait until they could fly or drive back to Bloomington.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Mike Beth, Jay Rosenbaum and who is the third person Salzmann refers to? Was there another person in JR's apartment that night?

This is the first I'm seeing this. Salzman says AT LEAST 3 other people saw her after CR was tucked in bed. AGain this time interval from CR/MB's place to JR's place is the critical path here. Who is this other person, what were these people doing? What was the conversation?

 

[jjenny]

This new development is pretty significant. The report doesn't say what time of the morning this occured. If it was say between 2:30 and 4:30 it would be a bombshell but if it were after JW had started calling people saying that LS was "missing", it wouldn't mean much of anything. I'm wondering if this Malone isn't the guy who bumped into MB and CR in the CVS.

The usa today article can't even narrow down the month, let alone the date and time.
Claims CR was asking about a "little blond girl" on Feb 4, boyfriend reported her missing on June 3, and yet she went missing early hours of June 4?

 

[VeryVeritas]

What does the code of conduct say about allowing a possibly intoxicated girl to walk home alone, in the early hours of the morning, without shoes, wallet, keys or cell phone?

Exactly. Besides the fuzziness of the CR/MB apartment to JR apartment transition, the mysterious 3rd person in this equation, it is JR's willingness to just let her walk down the street that is the most difficult to believe in all of this. Right now for me the guilty arrow is pointing at him... he better say something to make it point somewhere else...

No woman should walk alone - for that matter, no person should walk alone unless they are very prepared. But no man should let a woman walk alone, that's an act if idiocy at the very least. And I don't think any of these people are idiots...

 

[epiphany]

Bet the others will come in, but with an attorney. I have no problem with that, but get moving.

"There are indications that individuals not available will make themselves available," Qualters said at a news conference Sunday. "There's nobody at this point that we can prevent from leaving this community. We certainly cannot compel anyone to come in and speak with us."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

 

[kissdegirl]

Not sure if this had been posted yet. Clears up who was the only 1 to see her at the street corner at 4:30am and was indeed the last to see her (JR).

Chapman said that on the night of Spierer’s disappearance, she and Beth “visited for a while.” He described the two as friends.

He said his client was not drinking or using illegal substances that evening and was home writing two papers for two classes. Beth turned them both in about 1 p.m. Friday, and received grades of 92 percent on each paper. Beth, from New Jersey, has a 2.88 grade point average and “has never been in any trouble, ever,” Chapman said.

He said Beth is not the young man who is reported to have last seen Spierer at the corner of 11th and College about 4:30 a.m. Friday, June 3 — Chapman said that was Jay Rosenbaum, who lives two doors down from Beth and Rossman.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/12/news.qp-8740616.sto

 

[Kimster]

:rose: Lauren is our featured Hot Case on the front page. May she be found soon! :rose:

 

[VeryVeritas]

One way or another no matter who is guilty, there has to be a car involved and I am hoping they get videos that show the various cars in the area at 4am...there should not be that many...either someone in a car grabbed her, or someone needed to use their car to dispose of her.

Excellent point! Regardless of the cause of death, someone had to get that body (alive or dead) out of there during those hours. The list of cars would be a short list. i do hope there is enough camera footage to logically narrow it down...

 

[VeryVeritas]

If CR, MB, and JR are not JW's frat brothers, then the same code of conduct would not apply. The code of common decency would, imo.
On the other hand, some have said it is not uncommon for female students to walk around the area unescorted at all time times of the day and night. And we can't be sure how far Lauren persisted in her determination to leave on her own.

I agree that the business with CR, etc. could be a red herring, possibly created by inconsistencies in their stories, whether deliberate or a result of their faulty, alcohol-affected, memories. If true, the investigation has been delayed by the cumbersome task of sorting out their stories. Meanwhile, the trail is growing cold.

It is well established that CR was intoxicated (extremely) and beaten (who knows how that really impaired him). No one has admitted to using drugs yet... seems highly probably but no statements. MB said he was STUDYING... unless that's a lie being drunk and studying do not mix.
JR has not made any statement about drinking, drugs etc... but he was clearly up very late... We know that LS must have been at least intoxicated to some degree too. So MB may have been fully awake and drinking coffee for all we know. and JR may have been drinking juice and just woke up... we just don't know. So the assumptions about all of these people being drugged and drunk is not based in the facts we know.

 

[RR0004]

FYI

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/1...na-university-student-lauren/?test=latestnews

 

[epiphany]

Not sure if this had been posted yet. Clears up who was the only 1 to see her at the street corner at 4:30am and was indeed the last to see her (JR).



http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/12/news.qp-8740616.sto

Or it only clears up what MB's attorney says.

 

[Kimster]

FYI

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/1...na-university-student-lauren/?test=latestnews

:clap: What a blessing that TES is able to help!

 

[GoodAim]

If I were the young man who noticed the keys and purse, I'd get a lawyer. Same for his friend who later noticed the keys and purse, and handled them while moving them to the railing (probably in consideration of easier sighting for the person who lost them). I can't figure out if they were Lauren's or those of a victim referred to by LE. I sure hope Lauren is safe, and I also hope any innocent boys don't have their lives turned upside down.

 

[bessie]

It is well established that CR was intoxicated (extremely) and beaten (who knows how that really impaired him). No one has admitted to using drugs yet... seems highly probably but no statements. MB said he was STUDYING... unless that's a lie being drunk and studying do not mix.
JR has not made any statement about drinking, drugs etc... but he was clearly up very late... We know that LS must have been at least intoxicated to some degree too. So MB may have been fully awake and drinking coffee for all we know. and JR may have been drinking juice and just woke up... we just don't know. So the assumptions about all of these people being drugged and drunk is not based in the facts we know.

I didn't mean to imply that all of the parties had imbibed. My statement then should have read faulty or alcohol-affected memories. Point taken.

 

[VeryVeritas]

New info. According to the witness, CR was outside his apartment building asking people if they had seen "a little blond girl." I think CR's supposed memory loss might have more to do with his alleged intoxication than being punched. He probably really doesn't remember what had happened if he was asking people if they had seen LS.

"Rossman was outside his apartment, asking Malone if he'd seen Spierer.

"What's up boys?" Malone quoted Rossman as telling him. "Did you happen to see a little blond girl?""

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

That's strange i didn't see that statement in the link you posted. Perhaps it's advanced to another story? Please help with a new link. It would be very interesting if CR was back out of bed wandering around looking for her!

 

[jjenny]

That's strange i didn't see that statement in the link you posted. Perhaps it's advanced to another story? Please help with a new link. It would be very interesting if CR was back out of bed wandering around looking for her!

When I click on the link it goes right to the article with the statement. However since that article has its dates all messed up, it's not clear whether he was out asking people on June 4, which would be a next day after she went missing.