IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22

[blazelet]

Here is a press release and photos from the Bloomington PD :

SYCAMORE RIDGE LANDFILL UPDATE

The Bloomington Police Department has completed the first week of looking for evidence at the Sycamore Ridge Landfill as part of its investigation of the Lauren Spierer missing person case. BPD is being assisted by the FBI and the Indiana University Police Department along with heavy equipment personnel from Republic Services who owns the landfill.

There are no updates to report regarding any evidence being discovered as part of the ongoing effort at the landfill.

An overview of the operation is as follows:

• The operation runs for approximately twelve (12) hours each day with approximately 20-30 law enforcement personnel assigned on a daily basis.
• The operation has resulted in approximately 500-600 tons of trash being checked per day from the 50-60 truckloads of waste that is retrieved from the sequestered area and spread out for law enforcement to go through.
• The operation is expected to take two weeks.
• No work will be completed this weekend due to the heavy equipment operators who have reached the maximum allowable time they can operate their machinery.
• Work will resume on Monday, August 22, 2011.

Two photos taken by BPD personnel are being provided as a courtesy since media does not have access to the landfill property. The photos may be used for your report.

As indicated previously, notification will be provided to the media if there are any significant developments in the landfill effort with adequate time for travel to BPD if there is a scheduled news conference.

2 Photos :

 

[imkeylime]

Memory Loss has never seemed that strange to me, but only because I know everyone was partying. It is possible that CR had "memory loss" every time he partied. So, maybe convenient or maybe just a sign that we are talking about a bunch of college kids who are in party hard mode. I think part of my opinion comes from the fact that there was genuinely a stretch of time in my own life when my friends and I would spend the next day trying to remember what we did the night before. It isn't that crazy to me that other college students may have similar experiences with partying.


I am not sure whether I believe the parents know or suspect or not. I have met some parents that could watch their child misbehave and then still be in denial of it or pretend it didn't happen because their innocent baby can do no wrong. Other parents are more realistic. I do hope if any of the parents suspect something they are really thinking about what choices they make in the next few months.

I've never thought CR's memory loss all that unbelievable, given the circumstances. Had she not disappeared, LS might have had something similar the next day. JMO. And even if he does eventually have a hazy recollection, it might open a can of worms that he's scared to open or even being told not to open.

Regarding what the parents might know/suspect: IMO, some parents would rather overlook damaging behaviors than address them. That's wrong, of course, but I've seen it happen often at the high-school level in bullying situations. Sometimes maintaining image trumps doing what's right, very sadly.

 

[cspring]

Not sure if this has been mentioned... but has anyone thought that these POIs (JR, CR, etc) storage units should be searched? My guess is, if they packed up and left Bloomington right after LS went missing, they would need to have packed up their apartment for the summer. Many of the out of town (NY, NJ, etc) crowd often get a storage unit up in Terre Haute or somewhere along those lines and stores their stuff that they will not need over summer (furniture, household items, etc).

Just a thought I had as I am about to return to school in a few days.

Someone on LSCD fb pg yesterday said a news channel said there were about 10 fbi agents at a storage facility near or in(ill have to go back & look) terre haute. I obviously Dont know if it had anything to do with this case or not. Its been bugging me since i read the post but there was never anything to follow.

 

[British]

Not sure if this has been mentioned... but has anyone thought that these POIs (JR, CR, etc) storage units should be searched? My guess is, if they packed up and left Bloomington right after LS went missing, they would need to have packed up their apartment for the summer. Many of the out of town (NY, NJ, etc) crowd often get a storage unit up in Terre Haute or somewhere along those lines and stores their stuff that they will not need over summer (furniture, household items, etc).

Just a thought I had as I am about to return to school in a few days.

For this to happen the police would need a warrant. I doubt they have enough evidence to get warrants.

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I've never thought CR's memory loss all that unbelievable, given the circumstances. Had she not disappeared, LS might have had something similar the next day. JMO. And even if he does eventually have a hazy recollection, it might open a can of worms that he's scared to open or even being told not to open.

Regarding what the parents might know/suspect: IMO, some parents would rather overlook damaging behaviors than address them. That's wrong, of course, but I've seen it happen often at the high-school level in bullying situations. Sometimes maintaining image trumps doing what's right, very sadly.

Memory is a funny thing. Even when there's no drug use involved, people can be easily induced to remember things that never happened. If you google Elizabeth Loftus, you will be able to read many studies about this very thing. If I were CR's lawyer and he came to me weeks or months later with a hazy or vague recollection, I would not put much stock in it, and I'd encourage him to keep a lid on it. If you're not familiar with Dr Loftus or her work, please check it out.

 

[imkeylime]

Memory is a funny thing. Even when there's no drug use involved, people can be easily induced to remember things that never happened. If you google Elizabeth Loftus, you will be able to read many studies about this very thing. If I were CR's lawyer and he came to me weeks or months later with a hazy or vague recollection, I would not put much stock in it, and I'd encourage him to keep a lid on it. If you're not familiar with Dr Loftus or her work, please check it out.

The explanation of false memory phenomenon was fascinating, PlainJaneDoe. Thank you! I will read more about it later. I'm curious about the effects of stress/trauma on memory as well. I've had a personal experience with repressed/blocked memory. My father died of a stroke in his sleep while I was his caregiver. My mother, who was hospitalized at the time, asked me if he knew he was dying. I immediately said "No." But a couple of weeks later, I recalled him saying earlier that day that he thought he was dying. The problem is, he'd said that for a year ... it was like the boy who cried wolf. You can imagine how horrified I felt. It ate me up.

I've actually wondered if CR could have experienced something similar ... if he's blocked/repressed a memory. But drugs/alcohol/and a punch for good measure would have been enough, IMO. Regardless, I can see why a lawyer wouldn't encourage him to share any fuzzy memories. I realize his entire memory loss could be fabricated, but the alleged scenario seems to support it, so ... we'll see.

 

[bloom54]

Not sure if this has been mentioned... but has anyone thought that these POIs (JR, CR, etc) storage units should be searched? My guess is, if they packed up and left Bloomington right after LS went missing, they would need to have packed up their apartment for the summer. Many of the out of town (NY, NJ, etc) crowd often get a storage unit up in Terre Haute or somewhere along those lines and stores their stuff that they will not need over summer (furniture, household items, etc).

Just a thought I had as I am about to return to school in a few days.

These kids are living in apartments with annual leases, so there would be no need to remove their stuff from an apartment.

 

[holly2325]

Thanks that was me.
IMOO Some likely differences are these.

With NH perhaps there was a crime before she was hidden. GHB or physical harm.

With LS perhaps the hiding was the crime.

With NH perhaps the POI parent was directly involved with the decision to hide NH.

With LS perhaps the POI parents found out after the fact and there was no turning back.

 

[cluciano63]

Just re-reading the case about the death of Melissa Best, under the "located" forum...for those of you who question friends leaving behind or tampering with the body of one who overdosed accidently...it is a classic example. She was killed by a heroin overdose and her in-laws (sister-in-law and husband's brother, I think) drove her body to the parking lot of some apartment complex and left her to be found days later...just can't help thinking something like this happened with Lauren, only a better job was done in removing her body from the scene...

 

[imkeylime]

Thanks that was me.
IMOO Some likely differences are these.

With NH perhaps there was a crime before she was hidden. GHB or physical harm.

With LS perhaps the hiding was the crime.

With NH perhaps the POI parent was directly involved with the decision to hide NH.

With LS perhaps the POI parents found out after the fact and there was no turning back.

I theoretically agree with each "perhaps" ... but I do wonder if something physical could have also happened to LS, i.e., she was taken advantage of sexually and then OD'd, making it more imperative to hide her body. Hate the thought. I've also wondered if she was having an attack of long QT syndrome that was interpreted as an OD, since few knew of her medical condition.

 

[Walker]

The explanation of false memory phenomenon was fascinating, PlainJaneDoe. Thank you! I will read more about it later. I'm curious about the effects of stress/trauma on memory as well. I've had a personal experience with repressed/blocked memory. My father died of a stroke in his sleep while I was his caregiver. My mother, who was hospitalized at the time, asked me if he knew he was dying. I immediately said "No." But a couple of weeks later, I recalled him saying earlier that day that he thought he was dying. The problem is, he'd said that for a year ... it was like the boy who cried wolf. You can imagine how horrified I felt. It ate me up.

I've actually wondered if CR could have experienced something similar ... if he's blocked/repressed a memory. But drugs/alcohol/and a punch for good measure would have been enough, IMO. Regardless, I can see why a lawyer wouldn't encourage him to share any fuzzy memories. I realize his entire memory loss could be fabricated, but the alleged scenario seems to support it, so ... we'll see.

Although people intoxicated on alcohol frequently "black out" memories, rarely does this phenomenon seem to play much of a role in missing person cases. Generally, the memories return, after a while, esp. when other people remind them of details of the event. Yet in this case we have two POI who apparently have memory problems; both CR (per his attorney) and JR, whose account of events seems a bit hazy. Could they both have taken a bad batch of some drug, and suffered impairment as a result?

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Although people intoxicated on alcohol frequently "black out" memories, rarely does this phenomenon seem to play much of a role in missing person cases. Generally, the memories return, after a while, esp. when other people remind them of details of the event. Yet in this case we have two POI who apparently have memory problems; both CR (per his attorney) and JR, whose account of events seems a bit hazy. Could they both have taken a bad batch of some drug, and suffered impairment as a result?

We are allegedly dealing with Xanax, not just alcohol. This is very different from alcohol alone, even when Xanax is taken alone. I, and I think Elmomom, have posted a bunch about it. I will dig them up for you if you like.

 

[imkeylime]

We are allegedly dealing with Xanax, not just alcohol. This is very different from alcohol alone, even when Xanax is taken alone. I, and I think Elmomom, have posted a bunch about it. I will dig them up for you if you like.

There was also an article by an expert that discussed the possible effect of the punch CR took at SW ... and how drug/alcohol could have worsened that. Curious if you agree with that?

IDK what to think about JR ... he could obviously have been taking the same substances. The one thing that makes me kind of believe CR is the LE report about LS and CR making their way back to 5 North ... the wording makes it sound like they were both feeling the effects of something. Maybe I'm reading too much into that?

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

There was also an article by an expert that discussed the possible effect of the punch CR took at SW ... and how drug/alcohol could have worsened that. Curious if you agree with that?

IDK what to think about JR ... he could obviously have been taking the same substances. The one thing that makes me kind of believe CR is the LE report about LS and CR making their way back to 5 North ... the wording makes it sound like they were both feeling the effects of something. Maybe I'm reading too much into that?

I am on my iPad right now, and unfortunately I'm not as good at copy/paste on it as on my laptop. :crazy: So I'm going by memory here...

I don't know that I remember the exact article you mean, but I do remember that I spent a while on PubMed and Medscape trying to find some info about how cocaine in particular affects the outcome of traumatic Brian injury. I think that according to Medscape it didn't significantly worsen the prognosis, but I could be wrong.

 

[cluciano63]

Personally I think "amnesia" is just being used as a term to explain that CR doesn't remember what happened that night...I don't remember him having an official diagnosis by experts...I imagine this group had lots of those nights...JMO
He just had a better excuse, thanks to being punched...and had the idea first. Otherwise they would all probably be claiming "amnesia"...

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

Personally I think "amnesia" is just being used as a term to explain that CR doesn't remember what happened that night...I don't remember him having an official diagnosis by experts...I imagine this group had lots of those nights...JMO
He just had a better excuse, thanks to being punched...and had the idea first. Otherwise they would all probably be claiming "amnesia"...

IMO, you're probably right. "Amnesia" doesn't necessarily require a diagnosis. Think about the people who experience alcohol-induced blackouts. Most of them certainly aren't running to the doctor to complain about memory loss the morning after a night of drinking. However, the effect is real, and when an officer questions you, it's probably safer to admit that you have no idea what went down than to try to bs your way thru an interview so that they don't catch on that you were trashed. I think that the punch was a more socially acceptable reason than drug use for CR and his attorney to present.

 

[imkeylime]

I am on my iPad right now, and unfortunately I'm not as good at copy/paste on it as on my laptop. :crazy: So I'm going by memory here...

I don't know that I remember the exact article you mean, but I do remember that I spent a while on PubMed and Medscape trying to find some info about how cocaine in particular affects the outcome of traumatic Brian injury. I think that according to Medscape it didn't significantly worsen the prognosis, but I could be wrong.

I found it ... sorry ... it was an interview with a Bloomington neurosurgeon, a Dr. Haddad. Here's the link: http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/07/17/news.qp-5830818.sto

I didn't remember what I thought I remembered (LOL since we're talking about memory here!) ... he says alcohol could affect a head injury. And of course that alcohol/drug combos could cause memory loss.

Ultimately, I think what you noted last night sums it up ... no attorney is going to give CR the red light to "remember" at this point. Plus, we can't prove whether his condition is true or false.

What I would be curious to know, however, is whether JR was coherent enough to notice she was barefoot. I wonder if someone offered her some shoes, given the alleged condition of the alley.

 

[JeannieC]

Give her shoes?

 

[imkeylime]

Give her shoes?

Sorry, I realize that was unclear. There was a discussion awhile back about the condition of the alley, and how her feet would probably have been damaged by the walking through it. OTOH, if JR let her walk home in a convoluted state so late, I suppose he wouldn't be that concerned about her feet (plus she wasn't going back through the alley, if you believe his story).

 

[Darcyline]

I would really like to ask JR about her feet. In fact, if I had one question to ask him it may even be that (well, ok, are you telling the truth may be first, but I am imagining he would say yes to that no matter what).