IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #23

[Gabby66]

Why would a drug dealer kill her? That possibility does not make much sense in my opinion. I am also convinced that her boyfriend (JW) had nothing to do with it, as he was not with her that night and he was the one who searched for her next day and notified her parents.

I think the key to the story is that "activity" in the alley where the keys were found. The fact that the police does not release the name of the person who was with her at that moment makes me think that they consider that person a real suspect, not just a POI. If that person was just a POI, why would n't the police disclose his/her name? The police may be building a case, but they may not have sufficient evidence to bring charges and make an arrest. Not having a body makes things difficult.

The reason I sad DD (drug dealer) was b/c I was referring to one of the POIs who has been rumored to be one. I was meaning him specifically. There was commentary earlier that perhaps she went to this DD's house after JR's and I'm saying that while there, MAYBE she was murdered.

I kinda feel like we've been at least minimally introduced to CR, JR, and JW, even lest to MB and DR, but yet not really at all to AB and ZO. Then even still, there are at least 3 other POIs unnamed. It's hard for me to peg CR, JR, JW and maybe even MB and DR as murderers. I find it also hard to believe a random abduction. That leaves AB and ZO, along with some about whom we have no clue. I could "but" a DD murder in the sense that she was opening her mouth to much at Sports and they got rid of her, or took advantage of her when she showed up at their place perhaps.....

 

[mamamia54]

There's a second camera in the photo you posted just to the right of the more visible one. It faces south down the alley.

Ok got that lol. And her keys were found somewhere in that particular alley or were they found on the railing?

 

[Gabby66]

What he would offer is a chance for LE to figure out if he is telling the truth when he says the last time he saw her was walking down college ave. at 4:30.That would determine the whole direction of this investigation.To me that is more important than what drugs she might or might not have taken.If JR is telling the truth what does it really matter what drugs she took.

Yes, generally a good detective can determine from one's body language if he's lying. However, I can't imagine that any good attorney would put his client in this position. What if the kid is so nervous that he reacts in a guilty manner? No one is prepared how to react to something like this. I agree with you - I'd like to see him be interviewed too - but I do not for a second believe it would be in his best interest legally. Making a statement through his attorney is the best legal step. Sometimes the best legal steps are a far cry from the best moral ones, unfortunately.

 

[mamamia54]

Ok got that lol. And her keys were found somewhere in that particular alley or were they found on the railing?

I'm just asking because as of this article and the latest timeline June 16, 2011, last update: 6/17 Spierer’s keys and purse were found along this route through the alley, Qualters confirmed on Thursday, but did not have specifics on where.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/16/news.241958.sto

So where did the handrail come into play?

 

[bx2]

I'm just asking because as of this article and the latest timeline June 16, 2011, last update: 6/17 Spierer’s keys and purse were found along this route through the alley, Qualters confirmed on Thursday, but did not have specifics on where.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/16/news.241958.sto

So where did the handrail come into play?

You can see the handrail vicinity to the last spot she was seen on camera on the map from page 1. The light blue line stops at her last camera verified whereabouts. The keys were reportedly recovered from the gravel lot and placed on the hand rail.

 

[threepisces]

I'm just asking because as of this article and the latest timeline June 16, 2011, last update: 6/17 Spierer’s keys and purse were found along this route through the alley, Qualters confirmed on Thursday, but did not have specifics on where.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/16/news.241958.sto

So where did the handrail come into play?

They were found in the alley and placed on the handrail right?

 

[mamamia54]

They were found in the alley and placed on the handrail right?

If I remember correctly, they were found by a hairdresser coming home that night, but now I can't remember what time it was that she could have found them and placed them on the railing.

 

[phantomthought]

Yes, generally a good detective can determine from one's body language if he's lying. However, I can't imagine that any good attorney would put his client in this position. What if the kid is so nervous that he reacts in a guilty manner? No one is prepared how to react to something like this. I agree with you - I'd like to see him be interviewed too - but I do not for a second believe it would be in his best interest legally. Making a statement through his attorney is the best legal step. Sometimes the best legal steps are a far cry from the best moral ones, unfortunately.

I think we are talking about two different things.In the case of a interview which seams to be what you are referring to I would agree LE would need a lot greater latitude in what they are allowed to ask to try to determine JR truthfulness.In the case of a lie detector test I believe they could be a lot more specific in their questions to determine if his story is the truth.

 

[mamamia54]

I guess the hair stylist was going in to work when she found them, but I'm not able to verify that in any news accounts, or by LE.

 

[threepisces]

I guess the hair stylist was going in to work when she found them, but I'm not able to verify that in any news accounts, or by LE.

It was stated in an IndyStar article, although the link for the article is now broken. It mentioned that the stylist had found them on her way to work in the morning, but nothing else.

 

[cluciano63]

I keep going back to Phylicia Barnes, who was tossed into a river and not found for four months. The POI's in that case are anything but brain surgeons; it does not take big brains to throw a body into a river, or otherwise hide one. It just takes a little luck, an unpopulated area, etc...

 

[Gabby66]

I think we are talking about two different things.In the case of a interview which seams to be what you are referring to I would agree LE would need a lot greater latitude in what they are allowed to ask to try to determine JR truthfulness.In the case of a lie detector test I believe they could be a lot more specific in their questions to determine if his story is the truth.

Oops, sorry. I said interview, but my response would be even more so for a LD test. You are correct about the specific yes/no questions which could be asked during a LD test to determine whether JR is truthful. However, because these kids very likely were involved in some sort of criminal activity that evening, I cannot imagine an attorney willing to consent to a LD test, administered by LE for this reason. This is why they kids have consented to private LD tests (so that the questions can be controlled). Honestly, I don't blame them at all, purely from a legal sense. They were probably asked questions like, "Did you have anything to do with Lauren's death?" "Do you know what happened to Lauren?" etc. They aren't going to ask, "Are you aware of any drugs Lauren may have taken?" "Where did these drugs come from?" I'd bet my left foot that LE would. The truth is, these kids have already given the info they're willing to supply. What LE needs is the rest of the story and the rest of the story, is likely criminal and incriminating. Simply put, their attorneys aren't being paid to set them up.

There are people who could give her drugs, she OD, and not feel at all responsible for her death, so they pass a LD test (as long as they weren't participatory in hiding the body). Think of it this way: If a guy works at a gun shop and sells a gun to a seemingly "normal" man, and that man commit suicide with it, is the seller responsible? I think most people would sad and bad, but I'm not sure most would feel "responsible" for they other man's actions. I think some people who do drugs feel this way too, and that's why they probably passed the private LD tests. That, and the fact that the questions were "controlled".

 

[Darcyline]

I keep going back to Phylicia Barnes, who was tossed into a river and not found for four months. The POI's in that case are anything but brain surgeons; it does not take big brains to throw a body into a river, or otherwise hide one. It just takes a little luck, an unpopulated area, etc...

Important point. In a lot of these cases I see references to the POIs having to be very smart and "do the perfect crime" and be smart and not everyone can hide a body perfectly. Not true. It literally takes getting lucky sometimes. Phylicia's murderers literally tossed her in the nearest river and it took months for them to get lucky and have the body surface in plain view. None of the people in her case were geniuses who masterminded the perfect disposal spot for a body.
It does make me sick to think that Lauren could be sitting in a shallow grave somewhere or in a creek bed and we just haven't gotten lucky yet

 

[bloom54]

I would NEVER agree to an LD -- not private.. and not by LE... and would NOT allow one of my kids to have one either... innocent or guilty... IMHO, they are perhaps more dangerous for the innocent than for the guilty.

 

[StrayKat]

Why would a drug dealer kill her? That possibility does not make much sense in my opinion. I am also convinced that her boyfriend (JW) had nothing to do with it, as he was not with her that night and he was the one who searched for her next day and notified her parents.

I think the key to the story is that "activity" in the alley where the keys were found. The fact that the police does not release the name of the person who was with her at that moment makes me think that they consider that person a real suspect, not just a POI. If that person was just a POI, why would n't the police disclose his/her name? The police may be building a case, but they may not have sufficient evidence to bring charges and make an arrest. Not having a body makes things difficult.

I completely agree. Who else is on that video (1 or more?) and what activity was taking place... I think holds the key. I also wonder if her normal route of travel isn't probably down that alleyway.
Her route begs to question the 12th and College sighting, unless that was his normal route... thru the alley.

Do you remember how high that ledge was where the keys were found and who found them?

Thank you

 

[bloom54]

New article -- interview with HT and another friend of LS -- SG, has not, to my knowledge been mentioned before. Perhaps was out of town by the time LS disappeared.

I find it interesting that HT and BW are apparently no longer rooming together... and that BW was not involved in this interview. My perception is that BW has joined the CS/RS camp, while HT has not.

 

[Gabby66]

When my kids first started driving... I was very concerned about how they would react in the event of an accident. I knew because of the work I did that adolescents and young adults (and honestly, some NOT young adults) have a very difficult time with overcoming that initial flight reaction that instinctively occurs when something bad happens. The FIRST instinct is to protect yourself from whatever it is you fear... So we talked scenarios at length -- always ending with, "you need to call me and tell me what happened AFTER you call the police"... then we can work out what else you need to do... I wanted to be sure that they understood (and believed) that I would be there for them even IF they had done something wrong...

Since I assume that the person(s) involved in LS disappearance were also involved in getting her to a point of danger to her health (i.e. drug/alcohol use), whether by providing the party supplies or simply being part of the party, I also assume that, if they believed she had OD'd, that they were in deep **** trouble... so their initial response would be to protect themselves... so it doesn't surprise me that they didn't call 911, didn't make an ER visit with her... but that they did whatever they felt they needed to do to protect themselves. And they either shared that info with their parents, who helped in the protection plan... or they lied to them...

And honestly... I don't even know where I'm going with this stream of consciousness.. LOL

I just know that, on occasion, I think about what I would do if I'd been out drinking or doing drugs and were driving home impaired (not a very likely scenario, so I'm not even sure why it enters my mind.. ).... and I hit someone... no witnesses.... what would I do? what would YOU do? I know what I WANT to say I'd do.... but your first instinctual reaction would be "get the hell out of here!".... I want to believe that I could quickly get past that and get help for the person I hit... and to accept the consequences.

I love this post b/c it's just so raw and honest. The truth is, kids do run (fear), but sometimes they do the right thing and....

I don't know the outcome of this story b/c well, I just didn't follow up. However I know of a case where a guy was going home (G'ma's) around midnight. On a dark road, just down from his G'ma's, there was a drunk guy who walked out in front of him, and was hit by the kid. The kid had no clue what to do so he called his Grandma for help. The G'ma said that she'd call 911 and for him to drive down to get her so that she could help him. He did, and they returned immediately. When they returned, the G'ma believed the guy was dead (she was right). LE asked at the scene if he had been drinking or taken any drugs. He honestly told them that he had smoked a little pot very early that afternoon. Now, anyone who's smoked pot would say that 8-10 hours later, he would have felt no effect, but it would of course still be in his blood system. The kid was helpful and truthful, and this was a sad sad accident. The dead guy had a very high BAC if I recall.

There was talk that this kid was going to be criminally charged with involuntary manslaughter b/c of operating a vehicle with drugs in his system. Additionally, I understand that the drunk guy's family was going to sue him in civil court.

This is a great example of what could happen to these kids if they talk about any drug related activity the night of Lauren's presumed death. The truth is, when faced with something like this, I hope that I'd do the right thing. But sometimes the "right" thing can pose very "wrong" consequences. Not for a minute do I believe the kid I described was guilty of the other guy's death. It was a case of him being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

[Gabby66]

New article -- interview with HT and another friend of LS -- SG, has not, to my knowledge been mentioned before. Perhaps was out of town by the time LS disappeared.

I find it interesting that HT and BW are apparently no longer rooming together... and that BW was not involved in this interview. My perception is that BW has joined the CS/RS camp, while HT has not.

I feel the same way about BW/HT. I was thinking today about HT's comment about Lauren being a partier and that on that night she took things "too far". That strikes me. It was said as though she places a correlation between Lauren's demeanor and her possible death. That was said very early on if I recall. Why would she say that? It seemed a bit defensive and blaming of Lauren IMO. While I'd guess that she saw LS's demeanor, when she returned to Smallwood, why would she automatically associate that with her being missing right away? I still get the impression that she knows something and that she is sticking up for someone....

 

[Cuoco7]

I feel the same way about BW/HT. I was thinking today about HT's comment about Lauren being a partier and that on that night she took things "too far". That strikes me. It was said as though she places a correlation between Lauren's demeanor and her possible death. That was said very early on if I recall. Why would she say that? It seemed a bit defensive and blaming of Lauren IMO. While I'd guess that she saw LS's demeanor, when she returned to Smallwood, why would she automatically associate that with her being missing right away? I still get the impression that she knows something and that she is sticking up for someone....

So I was thinking about this last night, why isn't pressure put on HT to clarify that statement? I tried to find that article and can no long locate it. It's possible she has been asked, but it also seems like she just "disappeared" herself. Unlike LS's other roommates that actively put out messages about LS, it seems possible she has more she just needs to start sharing.

 

[plaidmom]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/foul_play_possible_cops_disappearance_YzZLYOMxL3uF7rs12wK30N

Earlier in the case, some member of this circle was suspected of being an FBI informant. Can't remember which one. Does anyone else remember this discussion?

Snipped by me to save bandwidth.

Since no one else answered: The two names I've seen mentioned {{{rumor alert}}} are DR and ZO.

Not FBI specifically, but just "informants".

Hope this helps.