IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #23

[Jupiter812]

I understand someone saying what they might do if they were in CS's shoes but I find it almost incredulous for someone to say what she "should" do to find "closure." (an exceedingly empty word IMO). Does it even begin to describe what CS wants? I don't think it even comes close so please don't project and pretend to know what she should seek and how she she should go about it. Further there's no way to know what would make the POI cooperate.

I think many people are threatened by CS's fierceness and approach whether they realize it or not. Wonder what's behind that?

 

[bloom54]

I'm curious, bloom ... I think you posted a comment about being leary of polygraphs (???). I know little about them, but Plain Jane Doe mentioned false memory syndrome the other day, which I found fascinating. Do you think it would be dangerous for someone with memory loss (i.e., CR) to take a polygraph, under those circumstances? Please feel free to not answer if this makes no sense, etc. ...

Awhile back, I posted about my experience with a polygraph about 10 years ago... I was innocent (as opposed to "not guilty" LOL)... but was uncomfortable with many of the questions that were asked NOT related to the case at hand. That made my results "inconclusive." After that experience, I knew that I would never agree to another poly...

Not sure that the memory loss would make much difference... and I really don't know how false memories play into it.

 

[bloom54]

Another article posted...

 

[bloom54]

I understand someone saying what they might do if they were in CS's shoes but I find it almost incredulous for someone to say what she "should" do to find "closure." (an exceedingly empty word IMO). Does it even begin to describe what CS wants? I don't think it even comes close so please don't project and pretend to know what she should seek and how she she should go about it. Further there's no way to know what would make the POI cooperate.

I think many people are threatened by CS's fierceness and approach whether they realize it or not. Wonder what's behind that?

Thanks, Jupiter!

Closure... surely CS and RS want that, but they surely don't want what it means!! What a horrible position to be in!

I find CS's fierceness amazing!! It's one of those "I want to be just like her when I grow up!" kinds of feelings. And really, I have always considered myself to be pretty fierce when it comes to sticking up for the people I care about... But CS is a powerful role model!

I really see CS/RS taking on a role similar to Adam Walsh... turning a horrible period into their lives into something that makes a difference for others... that's so much more powerful and life-giving than simply slinking away and allowing yourself to wallow in self-pity!! But, in reality, who could blame them for even doing that??

 

[cspring]

I know i wish they were my parents

 

[PlainJaneDoe]

I'm curious, bloom ... I think you posted a comment about being leary of polygraphs (???). I know little about them, but Plain Jane Doe mentioned false memory syndrome the other day, which I found fascinating. Do you think it would be dangerous for someone with memory loss (i.e., CR) to take a polygraph, under those circumstances? Please feel free to not answer if this makes no sense, etc. ...

I think that when I posted about false memories, I was thinking about how, even if it's 100% non intentional, questioning someone with no memory of an event or situation can induce the person's brain to create false memories. The false memories can be very persistent, but they don't really help the investigation. In fact, they could lead to a lot of wasted time and resources.

 

[Jupiter812]

Thanks, Jupiter!

Closure... surely CS and RS want that, but they surely don't want what it means!! What a horrible position to be in!

I find CS's fierceness amazing!! It's one of those "I want to be just like her when I grow up!" kinds of feelings. And really, I have always considered myself to be pretty fierce when it comes to sticking up for the people I care about... But CS is a powerful role model!

I really see CS/RS taking on a role similar to Adam Walsh... turning a horrible period into their lives into something that makes a difference for others... that's so much more powerful and life-giving than simply slinking away and allowing yourself to wallow in self-pity!! But, in reality, who could blame them for even doing that??

Thank you too, Bloom. Yes , they are using a two-pronged approach in what is a bit of a role reversal which I love to see: CS is the heavy (yay!) and RS is the social advocate heading up the safety education and awareness.

Cspring, I too found myself recently wonderingp "what if I had had parents like this"?

 

[Jupiter812]

Also wanted to say that this insistence on closure and getting back to "normal" is missing the point. There is no returning to their old life. This IS their life now.

 

[bloom54]

I think that some people suggesting "getting back to normal" may resent the fact that this family has the resources to stay here in Bloomington and devote their time and energy to finding their daughter.

I'm pretty sure, that even with their resources they're making some pretty significant sacrifices to make this happen....

 

[British]

I understand someone saying what they might do if they were in CS's shoes but I find it almost incredulous for someone to say what she "should" do to find "closure." (an exceedingly empty word IMO). Does it even begin to describe what CS wants? I don't think it even comes close so please don't project and pretend to know what she should seek and how she she should go about it. Further there's no way to know what would make the POI cooperate.

I think many people are threatened by CS's fierceness and approach whether they realize it or not. Wonder what's behind that?

CS is doing the right thing. She is dealing with a criminal (or criminals) who are responsible for the disappearance of her daughter. All she has done is to call the criminals what they are: criminals.

For some reason, some people are willing to consider the whole thing an "accident". This is obviously not a case of just an "accident". One way or another, this is a heinous crime as CS rightfully called it.

 

[Gabby66]

Cspring, I too found myself recently wonderingp "what if I had had parents like this"?

I think that you just might have parents like them, Jupiter. You seem very "level headed" and mature, responsible, and objective. You learned that from someone. The truth is, no one can possibly know how "fiery" our parents may be, unless faced with this type of situation and thankfully, it just doesn't happen to us all.

I agree with you and Bloom about "closure". I don't think they'll ever find it, but I do hope that someday they feel "resolve".

 

[Gabby66]

Not only is this their new "normal", but who can really define that for them anyway? There's no rule book on how to handle this and frankly, I'd guess that we'd all handle it in different ways. Our own internal structure will only allow us to each do so much. I admire CS's "fire", yet I believe that other parents may respond by simply shutting down, in a very depressed, almost vegetative state. Does that mean they are less wanting of finding answers and of course, their daughter? NO, but I simply think that when faced with this situation, some people couldn't even function. The Spierers have strength beyond strength.

 

[cspring]

I just read the new article in indystar....and the comments. I think im done reading comment sections. Why r there so many cruel, cold ppl in the world? What does it matter to them that this story gets so much press? Yes we know there r plenty of missing ppl to b worried about-but is it really hurting ppl to have Laurens story everywhere? Im sure its taken her parents & every1 else alot of hard work to keep this story on top. O ppl just make me sick-they really do.

 

[bloom54]

Bloomington Herald Times is the same way... people are annoyed because this "little white (sometimes add Jewish) rich girl" is getting all this attention from the media... when other missing persons have not. Her parents have done an excellent job of keeping the attention where it needs to be.

And the people who want to blame the victim...

Very disheartening... and I always pray that CS/RS aren't reading those comments.. but you know they are...

 

[cluciano63]

It is always the case that people come out of the woodwork to comment on articles about certain high-profile missing people...the same comments over and over, there are lots of missing people, blah, blah, blah...but the fact remains that it is up to the family of a missing person to get media attention after the initial burst of interest wanes, and I can't imagine picking at a family who has been strong enough to do so...others may not have the savvy or knowledge, but that does not mean the ones who do get through deserve anything less...pretty sickening that there are so many people out there worried about things like that...

 

[Gabby66]

Bloomington Herald Times is the same way... people are annoyed because this "little white (sometimes add Jewish) rich girl" is getting all this attention from the media... when other missing persons have not. Her parents have done an excellent job of keeping the attention where it needs to be.

And the people who want to blame the victim...

Very disheartening... and I always pray that CS/RS aren't reading those comments.. but you know they are...

I wouldn't be surprised if some of those comments just don't add to CS's fire. Sometimes negativity helps to build something within you to want to fight back - in all directions.

I do have to say though, that it's unfair that some cases are more highly profiled than others. However, sometimes it's the family who pushes to keep the info "out there". The Spierers have moved states away, are printing posters themselves, hanging themselves, organizing task forces, out talking directly to parents, making websites, using Twitter, facebook (social media), contacting press, holding interviews, etc. We can't fault other families for NOT doing these things b/c as I said in another recent post, everyone reacts differently. Those parents who do not have the financial means, or who are in the depressed vegetative state, simply couldn't be out doing what the Spierers are doing....but to fault the media is wrong. To fault the parents is even more wrong. It has nothing to do with race or culture. It has to do with emotional strength and financial resources. Any parent who looks himself in the mirror and says he wouldn't take the same measures, if he had the emotional strength, and financial resources, is a LIAR.

 

[Jupiter812]

Bloomington Herald Times is the same way... people are annoyed because this "little white (sometimes add Jewish) rich girl" is getting all this attention from the media... when other missing persons have not. Her parents have done an excellent job of keeping the attention where it needs to be.

And the people who want to blame the victim...

Very disheartening... and I always pray that CS/RS aren't reading those comments.. but you know they are...

I do not trust some of those commenters motives. I think some of them use the "there are other missing persons" as a screen for their prejudice. You know they couldn't care diddly if info about those others was posted. They just want to ***** and make it look like they're taking the high road. I try to SOB those comments lately.

 

[Jupiter812]

Wonderful discussion and building upon each others' input! Speaking one's truth opens doors to communication and possibilities. Thanks, all! Gotta go now. Happy labor day.

 

[mamamia54]

As I was attempting to give my mind a rest from wondering where Lauren could be and attempting to sleep last night, I had to get back up and do some research of the Jewish traditions specifically on death and burial. If the boys, and I call them boys because had they been MEN someone would have done the right thing, but as it is Lauren is still out there somewhere, if the BOYS were brought up throughout there lives in the Jewish faith, I'm wondering how in a time of distress they dealt with another Jewish persons death.

Viewing the deceased is not a Jewish custom, and Tradition teaches that it is disrespectful to look at a person who can not look back. Yet, someone, possibly three looked at Lauren. What must have been going through their minds, and at that distress point, did ANY of their customs take over, or did they just do what needed to be done without thinking?

Would they make certain that a Star Of David was left with Lauren? Would they at least place her body somewhere that a Star Of David was at least around her?

Which led me to wondering about any Jewish Cemeteries in the Bloomington area. Where would they be? Where did they or Lauren worship? Were they any deaths and burials in Bloomington around the date that Lauren went missing, I'm sure there were. A freshly dug gave would be easy to dig up, at least the top surface.

 

[cluciano63]

As I was attempting to give my mind a rest from wondering where Lauren could be and attempting to sleep last night, I had to get back up and do some research of the Jewish traditions specifically on death and burial. If the boys, and I call them boys because had they been MEN someone would have done the right thing, but as it is Lauren is still out there somewhere, if the BOYS were brought up throughout there lives in the Jewish faith, I'm wondering how in a time of distress they dealt with another Jewish persons death.

Viewing the deceased is not a Jewish custom, and Tradition teaches that it is disrespectful to look at a person who can not look back. Yet, someone, possibly three looked at Lauren. What must have been going through their minds, and at that distress point, did ANY of their customs take over, or did they just do what needed to be done without thinking?

Would they make certain that a Star Of David was left with Lauren? Would they at least place her body somewhere that a Star Of David was at least around her?

Which led me to wondering about any Jewish Cemeteries in the Bloomington area. Where would they be? Where did they or Lauren worship? Were they any deaths and burials in Bloomington around the date that Lauren went missing, I'm sure there were. A freshly dug gave would be easy to dig up, at least the top surface.

Nice thoughts, but somehow I doubt any of this was a factor, if her fellow students hid her body...I think CYA tops everything for people who would neglect to report a death...if that is what happened.

(On another note, I just refuse to think of these (or any) 21-yr old men as "boys"...but that is just me.)