IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #23

[goodgirl65]

I never said anything about the white truck occupants murdering or abducting anyone. I'm simply noting that Lauren left the area somehow. The white truck being in the area at the same time she would have been is too coincidental. It doesn't take but seconds to load a person in the back (or inside the cab) of a truck. You hear of kids being grabbed and poof gone in seconds. Why are you so defensive of the white truck? I've seen the links, I've seen the press conferences. I'm fully aware of everything that LE has said about the white truck.

That's not to say that I believe everything is true. We are all imperfect. Even LE makes mistakes. No need to search for links. I know they're there and what they contain.

I dont think im being so defensive of the white truck per se...I know LE makes mistakes...I just think that since this case has stretched out to 3 months without any real leads, i would seriously HOPE that one scenario, amongst all the others, could be put to rest, if only to narrow the field. If LE has screwed that up, in addition to the zero info they seem to have now,then there is little hope at all; if the police cleared the truck, or any wrongdoing associated with it, yet are WRONG, then they may have lost their opportunity to connect it to this case. I would also like to think that since there has been no real info for so long, that LE would have backtracked once again to the truck, just to be doubly sure...

 

[Jupiter812]

It would be very discouraging, not to mention incompetent, if the ONLY thing/person LE HAS fully cleared,the white truck scenario, was a mistake. Im thinking there has to be a solid reason that it IS the only scenario cleared...It is very possible that LE had SAR/HRD dogs sniff it out in addition to the statements of occupants/employer. If JR was the last known person to see LS at 4:30am, and the employer stated the driver was at the job when he was supposed to be that morning after picking up the passenger, then i find there would be little time to abduct, murder and dispose of the body...
I think im gonna have to do some search for links about this later...I need to clear the truck in my own mind(again)for sure...

...*Groan* thats 23 threads to look thru and sadly i have to go to work

Goodgirl. Use the search feature up top.

 

[imkeylime]

Re serving alcohol to a minor -

Like Illinois, Indiana has a Dram Shop Act. The Spierers can file a civil suit against the bar for serving a minor, if in fact she was served at Killroys. For that matter, the Spierers can file a civil suit against a few of the POIs for the drugs too. Discovery is far more broad in a civil suit and maybe it would put some pressure on the weakest link. Usually, a civil suit isn't filed until the suspect is identified. I see this case as a whole lot of people doing a whole lot of bad things and IMO, Lauren didn't have her own stash of whatever she had that night. Maybe a civil suit is premature here, but then again, maybe not.

I agree that we'll see a civil suit at some point, just not sure when. Re: bad things ... I can't seem to find the ages of the PsoI on June 3. It appears both JR and CR are 21 now (and JW 22). But really, more than alcohol was probably involved here, so that's only one worry. It's probably the bar's only worry, I'd think, depending on whether LS was served or not.

Also re: bad things ... I suspect there are various levels of bad things that went down, with some PsoI having enough culpability to cover their tracks, i.e., they were involved in how she got in the condition to end up where she did, even if foul play is involved.

It's possible the primary PsOI don't know exactly where she is, just that something very bad happened at the hands of someone they fear, etc.

 

[Jupiter812]

Article about pre-trial diversion featuring none other than CR. Shaking my head...

http://www.southbendtribune.com/news/opinion/sbt-20110906sbtmicha-05-03-20110906,0,5617299.story


"Three arrests as a student and the Monroe County prosecutor's office was willing to let him keep his record clean if he completed the requirements of his third shot at the program, which he has not done. He's due in court this week."

"But in fairness, the second- and third-time offenders are relatively rare. Chief Deputy Prosecutor Bob Miller told Lane just 5 percent of participants get arrested again. Still, it's difficult to accept that more than one or two people a year would justify a second chance, and impossible to understand the option for a third chance at the program."

 

[Jupiter812]

I agree that we'll see a civil suit at some point, just not sure when. Re: bad things ... I can't seem to find the ages of the PsoI on June 3. It appears both JR and CR are 21 now (and JW 22). But really, more than alcohol was probably involved here, so that's only one worry. It's probably the bar's only worry, I'd think, depending on whether LS was served or not.

Also re: bad things ... I suspect there are various levels of bad things that went down, with some PsoI having enough culpability to cover their tracks, i.e., they were involved in how she got in the condition to end up where she did, even if foul play is involved.

It's possible the primary PsOI don't know exactly where she is, just that something very bad happened at the hands of someone they fear, etc.

Here are their ages on June 30 when the article was published.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-0075723.sto

Edited to add from the same article:

"Rosenbaum’s attorneys issued a statement on June 27, saying Rosenbaum has cooperated and continues to cooperate with police and passed a polygraph, which has also been provided to investigators."

 

[Melvin]

Did I read that JW also returned to IU? I thought he was a senior last year, but I'm pretty sure he was listed in the article. Why does he get a free pass by everyone? He had motive (gf/ex-gf hanging out with other guys) and opportunity (roommate alibi with no confirmation of whereabouts during the most important hours to this investigation). JW going to the police so quickly to report her missing was super strange.

 

[phantomthought]

Sorry, but I find it very hard to believe that any underage college girl is going to the bar to drink a non-alcoholic drink, but ...how do you know no one is bringing any charges against the bar? I think it's far too premature to even guess that yet. Without a body, or BOC we have no proof that she had any alcohol, but if we do, and there are witness to verify what she had, it's still possible. They surely have her on video.

In all due respect, Walker, it seems like in every one of your posts lately, you're talking about her drink being spiked and/or them getting robbed. Can you please share what brings you to consider that? I mean, I wouldn't rule anything out right now as an option, but it just seems farfetched to me, so I'm curious. Thanks.

I would put robbery pretty low on the list but as far as her drink being spiked?From what we actually know about LS behavior that night why is that so far fetched?LS makes it to 1:46 in the morning without one report or evidence of any bizarre behavior.She spends 41 minutes in this bar and suddenly all we hear is one report after another of bizarre behavior.While I know people are going to suggest other reason's as to why this would happen the fact remains it fits the pattern of someone who has been drugged perfectly.

 

[cspring]

Its really not a crazy idea. Makes sense.
(being drugged at bar-im not sure about robbery being the reason).

 

[imkeylime]

Article about pre-trial diversion featuring none other than CR. Shaking my head...

http://www.southbendtribune.com/news/opinion/sbt-20110906sbtmicha-05-03-20110906,0,5617299.story


"Three arrests as a student and the Monroe County prosecutor's office was willing to let him keep his record clean if he completed the requirements of his third shot at the program, which he has not done. He's due in court this week."

"But in fairness, the second- and third-time offenders are relatively rare. Chief Deputy Prosecutor Bob Miller told Lane just 5 percent of participants get arrested again. Still, it's difficult to accept that more than one or two people a year would justify a second chance, and impossible to understand the option for a third chance at the program."

Wow, that's crazy. That last sentence pretty much sums it up: "Let's be clear: Those 'obliterated' on alcohol could die. Reason enough to tighten up the extra chances through pretrial diversion. Stronger messages the first time could save somebody's life." Yep.

I wonder if the LS situation had anything to with CR not completing the requirements ... if he was supposed to stick around for something? I also wonder where the parental involvement is ... I would think his parents (and attorney?) would want to help him stay not only alive but out of the limelight about now. Thanks to the other link, I realize he's 21. But still ...

 

[imkeylime]

Here are their ages on June 30 when the article was published.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-0075723.sto

Edited to add from the same article:

"Rosenbaum’s attorneys issued a statement on June 27, saying Rosenbaum has cooperated and continues to cooperate with police and passed a polygraph, which has also been provided to investigators."

I appreciate the info ... not just on the ages, but on the polygraph. Since polygraphs also affect the other case I follow*, I'm trying to learn more. There are even articles on-line about how to challenge a polygraph. One suggestion was to feel no guilt. Not implying a thing about this case, but I wonder how a sociopath would do on a polygraph? It definitely doesn't strike me as an exact science ...

(*LE cleared a privately administered polygraph for a suspect in the late '70s, but the polygraphist recently stated that the suspect hadn't passed the polygraph in his opinion. Also a man in prison in Ohio for similar crimes refuses to take a polygraph about the case.)

 

[Pedrosmom]

I would put robbery pretty low on the list but as far as her drink being spiked?From what we actually know about LS behavior that night why is that so far fetched?LS makes it to 1:46 in the morning without one report or evidence of any bizarre behavior.She spends 41 minutes in this bar and suddenly all we hear is one report after another of bizarre behavior.While I know people are going to suggest other reason's as to why this would happen the fact remains it fits the pattern of someone who has been drugged perfectly.

Keep in mind that she was just partying with JR & Co at 12:30 on. The effects of the drugs and her heart condition, medications could have taken some time (an hour seems reasonable) to show. It would make sense that by 1:46 or so, the drugs were fully in her system and the dye had been cast long before. I doubt during the short time frame that they were at the bar that there was any time to spike a drink. I'm sure the tapes (if there were any videos at Killroys) have been looked over with a fine tooth comb. I believe that Lauren started crashing roughly after she left JR's, which would make sense that she stumbled out of Killroys and then Smallwood. I don't believe there was any foul play with her drinks. I believe that everything she did at JR's had everything to do with her condition. Just like if you had a few drinks, takes a while to feel the effects of it. I don't know what she did at JR's and am not making any assumptions but whatever she did would take some time to get through her system. She was drugged, I'm sure. But I believe that was on her own while she was partying before the bar. Didn't they go right from JR's to Killroys? Then her condition would make perfect sense at that time of the night. I don't know why this JR kid is driving around in a Range Rover without the Feds busting through his apartment like they did ZO's.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I think HT and JW are close. I believe she was giving him a play by play that entire night. LE knows that. If his phone is clear, his alibi is tight, why is he a POI? They can rule the BF out fairly quick but they aren't quick to dump him. I believe there was chatter and texting between the two that probably went into the wee hours of the morning. Perhaps the two people closest to Lauren, her roommate and boyfriend are the "friends' that the parents are appealing to. I never doubted for a second that she knows more than prob most of the POIs. She's a grandstander. She grandstanded at the beginning of this investigation and then drank a tall glass of shut the he** up. I think cops pulled her phone records and who knows... who are the 10 POIs?
I couldn't come up with 10.

<modsnip> Even assuming <modsnip> that LE has not already reviewed their cell records, if HT were trying to protect JW and herself, why would she credit JR's story when he is the obvious scapegoat? And never mind that LS's parents are explicitly pointing fingers at JR and CR, and have arguably spoken kindly about JW, <modsnip>t they must really be pointing at JW and HT?

As to who are the 10 POI's - JR, CR, MB, DR, JW, JR's guest if he had one, and anyone involved in the confrontation at SW (including ZO if he was among them). That could be ten right there. Others who might be among the POI - HT and perhaps anyone else with LS at SW before 12:30, the person seen by the mystery witness if they actually exist, and KT (JR's neighbor).

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I don't know why this JR kid is driving around in a Range Rover without the Feds busting through his apartment like they did ZO's.

LE has busted open his door, literally. We have no real evidence that ZO has anything to do with drugs or this case, though either could be true. And what does the kind of car he drives have to do with anything?

 

[Pedrosmom]

LE has busted open his door, literally. We have no real evidence that ZO has anything to do with drugs or this case, though either could be true. And what does the kind of car he drives have to do with anything?

Let me see, dealing? Or maybe just Daddy's cash. Maybe LE has busted his door open but I haven't heard that the DEA has. From all accounts I have read on this site and media links, the pre-partying took place at his place. LS wasn't foaming at the mouth from a beer she drank at the bar, that is for sure.

If you read a few pages back the DEA busted ZO's apartment. The DEA doesn't bust my door down so it must have been more than a hunch.

I'm often puzzled and suspect of the members joining this site the month or so that LS goes missing and adamantly defending one POI or another.

Chill... this is an open forum for opinions. I have mine and you have yours. We do not all agree on everything, but one thing we do not do is attack. There is unwritten (perhaps written) rule of respecting other's opinions. Defend as you will, but there will be as many naysayers as there are supporters of your opinions. I've been on here long enough to learn that.

 

[nao]

JMO theres usually a reason for spiking a drink and i can't see a reason why LS's would be spiked. But if you are looking for party pills or whatever, the bar is the place to go. Pills are gonna take 15-20 minutes to kick in, so that would explain why she/they were so wobbely when leaving bar. Chemicals are a ifey thing (as i tell my child and his friends frequently) no quality control.
My child is same age, lifestyle but they take pretty good care of each other. OD they would panic, but they're just not jaded enough to hid a body. But you never know.

 

[elmorejames]

I've been looking into what all criteria goes into being a SPEA major in management. If JR graduates with this degree, then we are all in trouble because where ever he goes, he will have the power to be a leader of men and women. I hope his past follows him, and that people demand that his background be throughtly checked before he gets a high ranking job.

If you think he isn't going to go to work for his family, you're a fool. DB and his brother, went to UofM and now work for their parents. The kids who come from upper echelon families with money don't even need a college degree.. Their born made in the shade.

 

[Pedrosmom]

I'm sorry, but I find your theory ridiculous. Even assuming the far-fetched notion that LE has not already reviewed their cell records, if HT were trying to protect JW and herself, why would she credit JR's story when he is the obvious scapegoat? And never mind that LS's parents are explicitly pointing fingers at JR and CR, and have arguably spoken kindly about JW, you have some divine inspiration that they must really be pointing at JW and HT?

As to who are the 10 POI's - JR, CR, MB, DR, JW, JR's guest if he had one, and anyone involved in the confrontation at SW (including ZO if he was among them). That could be ten right there. Others who might be among the POI - HT and perhaps anyone else with LS at SW before 12:30, the person seen by the mystery witness if they actually exist, and KT (JR's neighbor).

When the Spierers speak of Lauren's friends, I can't imagine they are talking to people she met 2 weeks prior at the Indy. I don't even know that they were aware of Lauren befriending these guys. So you're saying Lauren was good friends with JR, CR and MB and the parents were well aware of this? I seriously question your motive and defense of this group. HT and JW are and have been "friends" of Lauren. I can't say that for the other group. Can you say for certain that the parents were aware that Lauren was "friends" with these guys she just met and that is who they were speaking out to?

 

[Jupiter812]

snipped

I wonder if the LS situation had anything to with CR not completing the requirements ... if he was supposed to stick around for something? I also wonder where the parental involvement is ... I would think his parents (and attorney?) would want to help him stay not only alive but out of the limelight about now. Thanks to the other link, I realize he's 21. But still ...

Keylime, I don't know but since a lot of the PDP participants are IU students--and his third incident was in December 2010--I would think he had time to complete it before early June.

If he doesn't show up for court this week, a warrant will be issued for his arrest.

 

[Jupiter812]

I watched the video from NBC that Carmen linked to yesterday morning. That was a long segment! Interesting that even Clint Van Zandt called the friends not talking a "conspiracy of silence." The host used "speculation" a few times and Van Zandt agreed but not once did he back off on the culpability of the friends. Not once.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/vp/44383084#44383084

 

[Pedrosmom]

Every upper crust, middle class and even lower class families want their child to have a college degree even if they're going to work for Dad's company or wherever. Call it bragging rights or whatever you want. The upper crust send their kids to get a degree because that is the thing to do. They may never use it in their lifetime, but God forbid the company tanks, they may need that degree at some point in life. Most people strive to have their children complete a higher education no matter what job has been cut out for them since the day they were born. My father worked his butt off to send all seven of his kids to college/graduate school/dental school not to work for him but to use their degree to get through life. Some people don't come out with a carved out career. Some earn money the old fashioned way, they earn it.