IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #24

[luna80]

deleted

 

[bessie]

I hope it’s OK to post this.

We're not allowed to copy and paste posts from other sites, i.e., message boards or comment sections from news articles. The acceptable way to reference these items is to paraphrase or provide a short synopsis with a link. You can include a date and time or post number to help others locate the reference.

I'll give you time to edit your post.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I don't know either, but I will say that I find the prospect of a solo out of town guest utterly ridiculous. College kid driving 6+ hours alone to party it up? Just find that really hard to believe.

...unless JR was his passenger to/from home as well, which I suppose could be the case.

As to the latter point, on the night of 6/3, Phish played a concert 15 miles from JR's hometown. I have no idea if JR is a fan of the band, but perhaps his friend from home was coming to pick him up to take him to the concert. It still does seem like a lot, though, as you said. And this theory seems to necessarily assume that JR knows what happened, whether or not he ultimately went along, which it sounds like he didn't.

 

[Tr.]

I've been thinking more about what might motivate everyone to keep quiet.

This theory has some interesting points. The idea that the perp/s is someone who reacted to a situation and dealt with it as a means of self preservation is certainly up there on the possibilities list.

I suppose I'm a bit more cynical and believe that the perp/s were more clever than anonymous...if that makes any sense.

Where we overlap is with the idea that the one/s responsible for removing LS from the area was known to LS and were in some way out of place themselves...in transit as-it-were, just as LS was.
IF we can assume that JR, JR's guest, MB, CR, DR, JW, JW's room mate, HT and BW were all in their respective homes at about the alleged time LS vanished...then who does that leave that also had prior contact with LS that night?
As you theorized possibly another guest (fellow party pal) but also possibly still not at home was the crew from the SW altercation.
In either case LS could have easily crossed paths with any of them as she made her way home whether intent on their part or not.

The theme of your theory is a crime for the sake of self-preservation and may very well be what happened.
My theory's theme is of a crime of opportunity which may or may not have been cleverly packaged and sold to other poi's as self preservation suggesting that someone may have been convinced to keep quiet for something that never happened.

I feel convinced that the timeline is incorrect as to LS's depart from 5N and discovering the reason for that is all we need to start the birdies singing.
In the mean-time we'll continue to search for LS

 

[Tr.]

Is this a crazy theory?

Not sure.. but be darn careful talking about menstrual cycles around here...leads to snarking:woohoo:

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

The theme of your theory is a crime for the sake of self-preservation and may very well be what happened.

No, that's not correct. The theme of my theory is NOT TALKING for the sake of self-preservation. I believe the crime, more likely than not, was accidental.

And I'll add that, reviewing again (and crediting) what has been written elsewhere, I believe that JR did have a guest from home, and so it seems more likely that this person is the MPOI rather than an IU student (still possible). Who that person is I can't say.

 

[bluebirdii]

In all my years of hanging out, partying, having fun, going to bars, I have NEVER seen anyone foam at the mouth. What would cause that? How could she keep on going? (I'm a light-weight). Also, I have been prescribed Xanax for anxiety and it puts me to sleep immediately, even at the lowest doses. I can't imagine going out drinking and taking Xanax. I would just go home and go to bed, I wouldn't be awake.

Please let Lauren be found soon.

I have to agree with you. I've been prescribed pax, urbanol & ativan for my anxiety, at high dosages - not all at the same time of course - and I have taken alcohol with it before (in my younger [and stupid] days...) :banghead: But I've never even had an effect close to that! You just tend to get really messed up quickly but then want to go to sleep, and of course memory is a little impaired the next morning. For someone to foam at the mouth, I don't know, she must've taken a huge amount (if that was the case). I seriously don't know what would make you foam at the mouth unless she was starting some sort of epileptic seizure or took something poisonous, I really don't know.

 

[Pedrosmom]

No, that's not correct. The theme of my theory is NOT TALKING for the sake of self-preservation. I believe the crime, more likely than not, was accidental.

And I'll add that, reviewing again (and crediting) what has been written elsewhere, I believe that JR did have a guest from home, and so it seems more likely that this person is the MPOI rather than an IU student (still possible). Who that person is I can't say.

I find your theory very plausible, despite my prior disagreements with you. You are pointing to several people that I can imagine and check me if I'm wrong on them, but I believe you may be referring to DB. Now ZO, AB or AA could also be the opportunists (one for sure being involved in the altercation). Would you exclude them? But then I wonder why you would exclude DR, if in fact you are excluding DR?

Can you explain the phone call to DR from JR's phone? Perhaps you have and I missed it.

 

[Pedrosmom]

As to the latter point, on the night of 6/3, Phish played a concert 15 miles from JR's hometown. I have no idea if JR is a fan of the band, but perhaps his friend from home was coming to pick him up to take him to the concert. It still does seem like a lot, though, as you said. And this theory seems to necessarily assume that JR knows what happened, whether or not he ultimately went along, which it sounds like he didn't.

Are you saying that JR's friend came down the night before the concert, on June 2, to pick him up and take him there on June 3? In which case he hung around the night of June 2?

What do you mean by "whether or not he ultimately went along, which it sounds like he didn't" Do you mean that JR knew what happened and didn't go along with it - as in it was out of his control what this friend did, JR told the truth about her leaving and what happened after that was nothing that JR condoned nor coerced and it was out of his hands once she turned the corner? That's where the silence comes in?

You speak of a car. LE early on was trying to identify several cars from video. Is it possible that seeing that this MPOI was not an Indy student, no one was able to ID the car?

 

[Pedrosmom]

AO - It seems likely JR would have contacted the MPOI (assuming he has their contact info), especially if they are an IU student. Could the MPOI have refused to respond?

It seems here that you are clearly referring to DR and DR not answering the call unless you are referring to an earlier phone call that JR would have made.

 

[imkeylime]

I don't know either, but I will say that I find the prospect of a solo out of town guest utterly ridiculous. College kid driving 6+ hours alone to party it up? Just find that really hard to believe.

...unless JR was his passenger to/from home as well, which I suppose could be the case.

Maybe the college kid was driving 6+ hours with the supplies needed to party it up. I'm pretty sure I read that the cocaine in Bloomington can be traced to cities like Detroit, Chicago, and NYC.

 

[imkeylime]

I saw some questioning of the "foaming at the mouth" rumor. I'm really not sure that that's appeared in any media report, but I don't know that it's a wild idea - http://www.google.com/search?q=coca...d=ivns&ei=rQpsTvavJInu0gH57pXiBA&start=0&sa=N

I appreciate this, being one who wondered. It seems most associated with cocaine use, which is helpful to know as well.

I don't think the idea of a MPOI is crazy. Actually, we may not even know all the PsoI, only the obvious ones. Also, your point about the obvious PsOI giving DNA samples and JR taking/passing a polygraph is well taken. I'm not sure if one can beat a polygraph but DNA seems rather cut and dry.

 

[Skigirl]

I don't know either, but I will say that I find the prospect of a solo out of town guest utterly ridiculous. College kid driving 6+ hours alone to party it up? Just find that really hard to believe.

...unless JR was his passenger to/from home as well, which I suppose could be the case.

Maybe it's different for guys, but when I was a student, I visited friends at lots of different big ten campuses, just for the heck of it/a change of scene/the prospect of new and interesting guys/a good party at a friend's, etc. In fact, I visited Bloomington a number of times, a 5-6 hour drive.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

I find your theory very plausible, despite my prior disagreements with you. You are pointing to several people that I can imagine and check me if I'm wrong on them, but I believe you may be referring to DB. Now ZO, AB or AA could also be the opportunists (one for sure being involved in the altercation). Would you exclude them? But then I wonder why you would exclude DR, if in fact you are excluding DR?

Can you explain the phone call to DR from JR's phone? Perhaps you have and I missed it.

I don't think that anyone we've heard about - and there's at least one (little-talked-about) name possibly missing from your list - can be completely excluded, though some seem rather more likely than others. And it's possible that we have never heard the name of the MPOI. If the MPOI is most likely an out of town guest, but is not DB, then that would seem the case.

But yes, I can explain the phone call to DR. It's just as was claimed: he had a car and could have picked LS up to take her home. I might also tend to exclude him on the basis of his demeanor in that video interview, and the fact that I believe the JW camp has done so as well.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

AO - It seems likely JR would have contacted the MPOI (assuming he has their contact info), especially if they are an IU student. Could the MPOI have refused to respond?

It seems here that you are clearly referring to DR and DR not answering the call unless you are referring to an earlier phone call that JR would have made.

No, I am not referring to DR and the phone call, but imagining a later call on 6/3 or 4 or 5 after it's discovered that LS has disappeared.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Are you saying that JR's friend came down the night before the concert, on June 2, to pick him up and take him there on June 3? In which case he hung around the night of June 2?

Yes, that's a possible theory

What do you mean by "whether or not he ultimately went along, which it sounds like he didn't" Do you mean that JR knew what happened and didn't go along with it

No, I mean that it seems that he ultimately did not go to the concert (if he even was in fact supposed to).

You speak of a car. LE early on was trying to identify several cars from video. Is it possible that seeing that this MPOI was not an Indy student, no one was able to ID the car?

Were they? It's possible, though I imagine that LE has seen, and therefore identified in a general sense, any cars that have passed through nearby camera fields in the relevant time period. I'm not sure if any of us know how many cars that is.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

your point about the obvious PsOI giving DNA samples and JR taking/passing a polygraph is well taken. I'm not sure if one can beat a polygraph but DNA seems rather cut and dry.

The reliability of a polygraph is an important consideration, but I think the more important concern in this case is what questions were and were not asked.

And as I hinted, I'm not sure if DNA samples are meaningful if condoms were used. Not my area of expertise. Again, though, I tend to discount this line of thought, at least as it concerns the POI who have supplied them.

 

[bloom54]

Is the confrontation over JR's cooperation really about his willingness to speak about this MPOI? Is that why CS used all caps in her letter to a/the MPOI when she said "YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHO YOU HAVE TAKEN FROM US"? Because the MPOI didn't know LS? (this doesn't explain why she says "Perhaps we have met," or why she suggests the MPOI might know the family recently returned to NY for RS's birthday; those statements in fact might cause me to question my JW support if it were not for the all caps statement and the other evidence I've seen in support of the notion the family doesn't believe he's involved).

I don't read so much mystery into CS statement... if CS/RS visited LS fairly frequently in Bloomington they probably met some of her friends, even if only briefly, as in "hey.. this is my Mom and Dad".... and since MSM announced that CS/RS were going back to NY that weekend, the MPOI might have been aware...

 

[Jupiter812]

I don't know either, but I will say that I find the prospect of a solo out of town guest utterly ridiculous. College kid driving 6+ hours alone to party it up? Just find that really hard to believe.

...unless JR was his passenger to/from home as well, which I suppose could be the case.

On the contrary. In this crowd, it might look something like: Jump in the Mercedes Benz G, do some blow, bump some tunes. Good times. A 6+ hour drive is just about right. Anything less doesn't have that "road trip" vibe.

 

[bloom54]

Interesting dream, and shared by two different people. These young women were close friends of LS. Maybe there is something that LS said once that could be a clue but they can't quite recall. Maybe it's something that they fear. What kind of person would let her friends go frantic, and then "pop up" as if nothing had happened? Could it be that they suspect that LS is an adult runaway?

It's not unusual after a death of someone close to you, to have recurring dreams about finding them... I didn't find this odd at all... and if one of them had the dream and told the other about it, it wouldn't be unusual for the other to have a similar dream...

and, of course, there's also HT's incredible story-telling ability.... she's not high on my list of credible reporters...