IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #24

[Jupiter812]

I don't read so much mystery into CS statement... if CS/RS visited LS fairly frequently in Bloomington they probably met some of her friends, even if only briefly, as in "hey.. this is my Mom and Dad".... and since MSM announced that CS/RS were going back to NY that weekend, the MPOI might have been aware...

Lauren's parents could have met the MPOI parents too given the small world at Smallwood. They could have commiserated at move-in time, shared a meal at a downtown restaurant, shopped together, etc. AAMOF many parents consider weekends in Btown a mini-vacation. This brings me to why CS/RS may have published the the baby and toddler photos of Lauren. To get to the parents.

 

[elmorejames]

I find your theory very plausible, despite my prior disagreements with you. You are pointing to several people that I can imagine and check me if I'm wrong on them, but I believe you may be referring to DB. Now ZO, AB or AA could also be the opportunists (one for sure being involved in the altercation). Would you exclude them? But then I wonder why you would exclude DR, if in fact you are excluding DR?

Can you explain the phone call to DR from JR's phone? Perhaps you have and I missed it.

First off I want to thank both of you for your brief exchange. It made me think of a huge turning point in the case, which I would need others to help co-sign my theory.

Perhaps JR meant to call DB (mysterious house guest, who may not be so mysterious after his Runcible Spoon tweet) and actually dialed DR. Depending how each contact are stored in JR's phone DR and DB could easily be next to each other in the phone.

Is it possible that perhaps DB had left with an alive/dead LS and headed back to Michigan with intentions of disposing the body. JR meant to call DB and not DR to see if things we're okay? Maybe even JR wakes up in a daze and DB left, unannounced, JR isn't sure what happened until the next morning, and is simply covering for DB (because of the family wealth). And perhaps DB places the alibi tweet placing himself in Bloomington, when he had already hit the road???

I'd love to see if Twitter would be willing to disclose the GPS location of DB when that tweet was made? If this is even possible.

Please chime in.

 

[imkeylime]

The reliability of a polygraph is an important consideration, but I think the more important concern in this case is what questions were and were not asked.

And as I hinted, I'm not sure if DNA samples are meaningful if condoms were used. Not my area of expertise. Again, though, I tend to discount this line of thought, at least as it concerns the POI who have supplied them.

IDK ... wouldn't that imply a degree of luck, unless a private polygraph can be directed in that way? Re: DNA/condoms/etc. ... not my area of expertise at all, but I've read a bit about the Amanda Knox appeal, which hinges on DNA (and its contamination). LS clearly chose to party with the obvious PsOI, but if DNA was found on her bra, etc., it might be an issue. In the Knox case, for instance, DNA was reportedly found on the clasp of Meredith Kercher's bra, mixed with the victim's ...

IMO, LS ODing is of an issue, given one or more POI could have supplied the drugs.

 

[imkeylime]

On the contrary. In this crowd, it might look something like: Jump in the Mercedes Benz G, do some blow, bump some tunes. Good times. A 6+ hour drive is just about right. Anything less doesn't have that "road trip" vibe.

Or humming along in the Hummer?

I do, however, have problems imagining a college-age student making a return trip of that duration with LS along. A hardened criminal, I could see. Maybe I'm being too generous ...

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Perhaps JR meant to call DB (mysterious house guest, who may not be so mysterious after his Runcible Spoon tweet) and actually dialed DR. Depending how each contact are stored in JR's phone DR and DB could easily be next to each other in the phone.

That is potentially a very good theory, but only if:
1. as you say, they are stored next to one another in the phone (i.e. by their first names or initials, with no one else in between; I have read that DB is referred to primarily by his last name). This presumes that DR is in JR's phone in the first place; perhaps he was not, but LS knew or looked up his number (presuming that she was in a state to do so).
2. DB was not actually with JR at 4:15 (but JR had a reason to call him)
and, perhaps most importantly,
3. LE does not have access to JR's phone and phone records. Do we know whether he has provided access?

 

[Jupiter812]

snipped

I'd love to see if Twitter would be willing to disclose the GPS location of DB when that tweet was made? If this is even possible.

Please chime in.

Somewhat related: IIRC either here or on Tony Gatto's site that LE must request tweets ASAP due to vast number of tweets, only one to two weeks' worth are saved.

 

[Jupiter812]

Or humming along in the Hummer?

I do, however, have problems imagining a college-age student making a return trip of that duration with LS along. A hardened criminal, I could see. Maybe I'm being too generous ...

I don't see them doing that either.

 

[plaidmom]

Not sure.. but be darn careful talking about menstrual cycles around here...leads to snarking:woohoo:

A little off-topic, but for those who are male (or perhaps a bit older) many women today choose not to have a monthly "period" thanks to modern birth control.

So the idea that a woman's behavior, or dress, or whatever can be tied to some monthly cycle is somewhat old-fashioned.

I say thank-goodness for modern chemistry!

 

[plaidmom]

I don't see them doing that either.

Me also. Which is why I have always had the opinion that LS was alive when she got into/was placed in the vehicle that took her away from Bloomington.

 

[mamamia54]

I've wondered if when LE checked 5 North with the dog, if they also brought in a forensic team to do any testing on things, and if they didn't why not. That would have been a perfect time.

 

[TobyWong*]

First off I want to thank both of you for your brief exchange. It made me think of a huge turning point in the case, which I would need others to help co-sign my theory.

Perhaps JR meant to call DB (mysterious house guest, who may not be so mysterious after his Runcible Spoon tweet) and actually dialed DR. Depending how each contact are stored in JR's phone DR and DB could easily be next to each other in the phone.

Is it possible that perhaps DB had left with an alive/dead LS and headed back to Michigan with intentions of disposing the body. JR meant to call DB and not DR to see if things we're okay? Maybe even JR wakes up in a daze and DB left, unannounced, JR isn't sure what happened until the next morning, and is simply covering for DB (because of the family wealth). And perhaps DB places the alibi tweet placing himself in Bloomington, when he had already hit the road???

I'd love to see if Twitter would be willing to disclose the GPS location of DB when that tweet was made? If this is even possible.

Please chime in.

I appreciate this post . It made me look at JR a little diff. if only for a minute. I just don't think he slept or passed out. I think it went very quickly from 3:00 am on.

I have always felt that was what the twitter was for. To place him DB point blank there eating like nothings going on.

I think that when whatever happened to Lauren happened they, idk mayb MB,CR,JR,& DB plaved her in some sort of duffle bag and put into a trunk.

The only person who would've had cause to leave is DB. He's from out of town, just came to hang out. Has to go back. I would'nt think to carry a body far but who knows. He could"ve met up in Martinsville if a call was made for help. Idk? Mayb JR went w/ and was brought back by whoever met them there for help. Then everythings done, again, idk mayb the fire. DB goes on home. JRgoes back just as everything gets moving,

I also think the call from JR to DR was to say "Lauren used the phone" to place her as alive. Nothing eles. I bet it was a quick hang up.
I pray they have poured over everyone of these guys phone records.
imo.

 

[holly2325]

I appreciate this post . It made me look at JR a little diff. if only for a minute. I just don't think he slept or passed out. I think it went very quickly from 3:00 am on.

I have always felt that was what the twitter was for. To place him DB point blank there eating like nothings going on.

I think that when whatever happened to Lauren happened they, idk mayb MB,CR,JR,& DB plaved her in some sort of duffle bag and put into a trunk.

The only person who would've had cause to leave is DB. He's from out of town, just came to hang out. Has to go back. I would'nt think to carry a body far but who knows. He could"ve met up in Martinsville if a call was made for help. Idk? Mayb JR went w/ and was brought back by whoever met them there for help. Then everythings done, again, idk mayb the fire. DB goes on home. JRgoes back just as everything gets moving,

I also think the call from JR to DR was to say "Lauren used the phone" to place her as alive. Nothing eles. I bet it was a quick hang up.
I pray they have poured over everyone of these guys phone records.
imo.

I vacillate from one theory to another, all involving JR, but
the points above make the most sense to me. I do envision a scenario of at least two people faced with hiding LS and being on slightly different levels of agreement.

 

[WhitneyLea]

Since it's being discussed, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the topic of the likelihood of transporting a body a rather long distance for disposal. IMO, I feel pretty strongly that if someone - college student, hardened criminal or otherwise - was willing to make the decision that they are going to dispose of a body rather than report a crime or accident to the proper authorities, then that someone would be perfectly willing to transport it as far away from the crime/accident scene as possible. Especially if that person had a reasonable excuse to be making a long drive. (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, just speaking in general terms.) That would make it a lot harder to find, right?? And if you're trying to cover something up, that would be your main goal. To me it would be perfectly logical (if you're in CYA mode) to get any evidence as far away as possible, as fast as possible, from the places that everyone is going to be looking - in this case, Bloomington.

Again, just my thoughts ...

 

[WhitneyLea]

Somewhat related: IIRC either here or on Tony Gatto's site that LE must request tweets ASAP due to vast number of tweets, only one to two weeks' worth are saved.

Saved by who, twitter? I'm not sure about this ... if I look at a specific person's twitter feed, I can go waaaaay back ... like several months, maybe even years if I scroll long enough, haha. But maybe you mean if the "tweeter" deleted them, then they wouldn't be saved on the twitter server or network for very long. That would make sense. I don't know that much about twitter though so I'm not sure.

 

[imkeylime]

Since it's being discussed, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the topic of the likelihood of transporting a body a rather long distance for disposal. IMO, I feel pretty strongly that if someone - college student, hardened criminal or otherwise - was willing to make the decision that they are going to dispose of a body rather than report a crime or accident to the proper authorities, then that someone would be perfectly willing to transport it as far away from the crime/accident scene as possible. Especially if that person had a reasonable excuse to be making a long drive. (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, just speaking in general terms.) That would make it a lot harder to find, right?? And if you're trying to cover something up, that would be your main goal. To me it would be perfectly logical (if you're in CYA mode) to get any evidence as far away as possible, as fast as possible, from the places that everyone is going to be looking - in this case, Bloomington.

Again, just my thoughts ...

IMO, it would take a truly cool-headed individual to do this, especially if it was the body of a friend, not someone a perp murdered (in my scenario, anyhow).

I've recently thought a POI might have disposed of LS in an area that resembled an area that was familiar yet not close to home, i.e., in a lake near Martinsville if he was from an area with lakes, etc. This makes sense to me intuitively. But ...

I initially believed LS would be found in the landfill ... that a POI put her in a dumpster and got lucky. I still wonder why dogs supposedly hit on a dumpster. I've also wondered if a POI started to and then got scared, thus leaving a scent. There was a case in Traverse City, MI, near the time of LS', where a young woman's body was moved from one place to another. But Traverse City isn't downtown Bloomington. But ...

If an out of towner did drive LS from one state to another ... and that person was DB, I have another thought. His family's real estate company buys up foreclosing apartment/condo complexes, I believe. Those also have dumpsters ... again, going with what's familiar. Who would think to look for LS in a MI landfill?

Do I believe this happened? No ... but a truly cool-headed individual might be able to pull something like this off. Personally, I believe she's closer. But ...

 

[bx2]

IMO, it would take a truly cool-headed individual to do this, especially if it was the body of a friend, not someone a perp murdered (in my scenario, anyhow).

I've recently thought a POI might have disposed of LS in an area that resembled an area that was familiar yet not close to home, i.e., in a lake near Martinsville if he was from an area with lakes, etc. This makes sense to me intuitively. But ...

I initially believed LS would be found in the landfill ... that a POI put her in a dumpster and got lucky. I still wonder why dogs supposedly hit on a dumpster. I've also wondered if a POI started to and then got scared, thus leaving a scent. There was a case in Traverse City, MI, near the time of LS', where a young woman's body was moved from one place to another. But Traverse City isn't downtown Bloomington. But ...

If an out of towner did drive LS from one state to another ... and that person was DB, I have another thought. His family's real estate company buys up foreclosing apartment/condo complexes, I believe. Those also have dumpsters ... again, going with what's familiar. Who would think to look for LS in a MI landfill?

Do I believe this happened? No ... but a truly cool-headed individual might be able to pull something like this off. Personally, I believe she's closer. But ...

I think a lot has to go right in someone's favor for the driving away with her theory to work. Even if its out of sight, there would still be a body in your vehicle for an extended amount of time leaving possible trace evidence. If you had an extended drive home, it is light outside when you got there making getting rid of something a bit trickier. You were surely seen the previous night in Bloomington, did you make plans with anyone or talk about meeting up the next day that would cause further suspicion on your absence after a girl is reported missing? Your phone is going to give away the timeline you left. Is your sobriety level going to increase the likelihood that you'll be pulled over? Do you need to stop for gas, more witness and camera possibilities. Oh and your story of when and why you left needs to match up across all counts.

Possible sure, but if that person is known to LE, it seems easier than not to slip up.

 

[Jupiter812]

Saved by who, twitter? I'm not sure about this ... if I look at a specific person's twitter feed, I can go waaaaay back ... like several months, maybe even years if I scroll long enough, haha. But maybe you mean if the "tweeter" deleted them, then they wouldn't be saved on the twitter server or network for very long. That would make sense. I don't know that much about twitter though so I'm not sure.

I thought TG or whomever was referring to the mobile carrier or service provider and not requesting tweets but the potentially identifying information.

 

[Jupiter812]

Since it's being discussed, I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on the topic of the likelihood of transporting a body a rather long distance for disposal. IMO, I feel pretty strongly that if someone - college student, hardened criminal or otherwise - was willing to make the decision that they are going to dispose of a body rather than report a crime or accident to the proper authorities, then that someone would be perfectly willing to transport it as far away from the crime/accident scene as possible. Especially if that person had a reasonable excuse to be making a long drive. (I'm not pointing fingers at anyone here, just speaking in general terms.) That would make it a lot harder to find, right?? And if you're trying to cover something up, that would be your main goal. To me it would be perfectly logical (if you're in CYA mode) to get any evidence as far away as possible, as fast as possible, from the places that everyone is going to be looking - in this case, Bloomington.

Again, just my thoughts ...

But a wealthy person might prefer to not get his hands dirty and call a fixer to help or do it for him for the right amount of course.

 

[Jupiter812]

Remember in Month 1 all the photos and info gathering Btown did which helped make the point that JR would not have been able to see her round the corner? I'm reminded of that today. That is what got me hooked in the first place. I visited on site and looked for myself back then and I agree. Even if JR stepped outside, which I don't recall him saying he did, it would be difficult to see her.

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

Remember in Month 1 all the photos and info gathering Btown did which helped make the point that JR would not have been able to see her round the corner? I'm reminded of that today. That is what got me hooked in the first place. I visited on site and looked for myself back then and I agree. Even if JR stepped outside, which I don't recall him saying he did, it would be difficult to see her.

I'm not there, of course, but I've never quite bought this claim (that he couldn't have seen the corner). The pictures I've seen make it look like you could easily see the corner. And if it were obviously untrue, why would the claim have been made? Perhaps it was a very stupid claim. But then why would it not have been more explicitly challenged?