IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #25

[Walker]

Every time I start to imagine scenarios that involve LS walking away at 4:30 am, I remember the talk about the cadaver dogs hitting behind JR's. While not confirmed, that story (unlike rumors about the white truck or mysterious people at the bar) was at least backed by people using their real names who were involved in the search and claimed to be working with the Spierers. I don't know if there is any truth to it either, but it still makes me wonder...

Wasn't just regular K9's, and not cadaver dogs?

 

[Alliecog]

What would be a ball park figure for the cost of an eight ball in Bloomington? Not that LS was necessarily involved herself, but some person(s) close to the situation may have been carrying a lot of cash.

Probably a few hundred dollars... I think it's 3.5 grams and I've heard of grams going for between $80-$100 (unfortunately a friend of mine previously had an issue with cocaine, very expensive habit).

 

[AbbeyR]

Wasn't just regular K9's, and not cadaver dogs?

The note written by the psychic person, and then confirmed by Don Cranville on the LS FB page said that "cadaver dogs indicated on and behind a dumpster in the area where Lauren Spierer was last seen." Discussion about this is thread #20.

As I said at the time, I have no idea who Don Cranville is, other than the fact that he claimed to be involved in organizing the search and working with the spierers. But he did not appear to be affiliated with the psychic and did vouch for the training of her dogs. I've tried to find confirmation about this, but haven't seen anything else about it since... which I find odd. (DC, are you here? Anyone who knows about this? Weigh in!)

Re. the price of an eight ball: It's my understanding that a gram of coke is usually about $80. Buying increased quantities usually means a cheaper price, so 3.5 grams = the price of 3 (or $240), although this probably varies depending on place and availability.

ETA: I also want to reiterate though, since I was the one who brought up the rumor about LS texting someone from the bar about buying an eight ball, that I did so to say that I believe the rumor was false, based on the fact that her parents made a point to say that she did not use her phone after leaving Smallwood. MOO

 

[bloom54]

College students are usually post-adolescents. Not trying to nit-pick, but this new movement to "kid-ify" people until they are 40 is JMO extremely misguided.

JR may just be trying to be "acceptable," or he may know other members of LS's family, whom he may have spoken to privately.

These kids (yes, KIDS)... have mostly been untested as adults.... no real job... supported by their parents... so referring to them as adolescents is entirely appropriate. Since most of them are underage to drink legally that means age 20.... and adolescent development would keep them in their current stage through their early 20s.

And.. their decision-making abilities are still immature... especially in terms of moral development.

 

[Jupiter812]

The note written by the psychic person, and then confirmed by Don Cranville on the LS FB page said that "cadaver dogs indicated on and behind a dumpster in the area where Lauren Spierer was last seen." Discussion about this is thread #20.

As I said at the time, I have no idea who Don Cranville is, other than the fact that he claimed to be involved in organizing the search and working with the spierers. But he did not appear to be affiliated with the psychic and did vouch for the training of her dogs. I've tried to find confirmation about this, but haven't seen anything else about it since... which I find odd. (DC, are you here? Anyone who knows about this? Weigh in!)

Re. the price of an eight ball: It's my understanding that a gram of coke is usually about $80. Buying increased quantities usually means a cheaper price, so 3.5 grams = the price of 3 (or $240), although this probably varies depending on place and availability.

ETA: I also want to reiterate though, since I was the one who brought up the rumor about LS texting someone from the bar about buying an eight ball, that I did so to say that I believe the rumor was false, based on the fact that her parents made a point to say that she did not use her phone after leaving Smallwood. MOO

Don Cranfill. He was the search coordinator and he remains committed to helping the Spierer's. Good guy. Things went awry and drama ensued when LE got involved. It unfolded much like the first mention of the Smallwood punch, i.e., it happened, then it didn't, then it was never mentioned again. I read the St. John's letter on FB (the psyhic) and she was pissed at how things went down. I felt sorry for her but also thought she had a few problems of her own that added to the drama.

Look for Juju post here: http://tonygatto.com/2011/07/21/sou...video-lauren-spierer-was-stumbling-fell-down/

 

[Jupiter812]

These kids (yes, KIDS)... have mostly been untested as adults.... no real job... supported by their parents... so referring to them as adolescents is entirely appropriate. Since most of them are underage to drink legally that means age 20.... and adolescent development would keep them in their current stage through their early 20s.

And.. their decision-making abilities are still immature... especially in terms of moral development.

So true, and well said. After talking to a friend of mine today whose son is 20 and who is giving her unrelenting grief (no exaggeration), I hung up the phone and thought OMG, these boys in LS case are the same age group. He fits the criteria above, but since I've known him since he was a kid, I've thought of him as younger than JR or CR.

 

[AbbeyR]

Thanks Jupiter for the response, and also for correcting Don Cranfill's name (I was going by memory, oops!). I was not a member of the FB page, so didn't know all the players, but got the impression that he knew what he was talking about and was well respected by everyone there, which is why I didn't totally dismiss the story of the cadaver dogs. Anyway, the drama is... confusing... but does give me a smidgen of hope that LE and the Spierers may at least have evidence that hasn't been made public.

 

[cluciano63]

Who among the males named in this case are not 21?

 

[Jupiter812]

The note written by the psychic person, and then confirmed by Don Cranville on the LS FB page said that "cadaver dogs indicated on and behind a dumpster in the area where Lauren Spierer was last seen." Discussion about this is thread #20.

As I said at the time, I have no idea who Don Cranville is, other than the fact that he claimed to be involved in organizing the search and working with the spierers. But he did not appear to be affiliated with the psychic and did vouch for the training of her dogs. I've tried to find confirmation about this, but haven't seen anything else about it since... which I find odd. (DC, are you here? Anyone who knows about this? Weigh in!)

Re. the price of an eight ball: It's my understanding that a gram of coke is usually about $80. Buying increased quantities usually means a cheaper price, so 3.5 grams = the price of 3 (or $240), although this probably varies depending on place and availability.

ETA: I also want to reiterate though, since I was the one who brought up the rumor about LS texting someone from the bar about buying an eight ball, that I did so to say that I believe the rumor was false, based on the fact that her parents made a point to say that she did not use her phone after leaving Smallwood. MOO

It just occurred to me that the dumpster in question, is not necessarily the dumpster behind 5 North (as I've been thinking) and shown in Btown's post #5 at [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140294"]IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 *PHOTOS & MAPS* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame].

It could be any dumpster along the alley route, along College Ave and the little alleys off of it, and behind miscellaneous buildings. It could be a construction site dumpster too.

 

[Missing Budweiser]

What would be a ball park figure for the cost of an eight ball in Bloomington? Not that LS was necessarily involved herself, but some person(s) close to the situation may have been carrying a lot of cash.

No one with any kind of connection is going to pay more than $200 for an eight-ball in a college town. The going rate for a gram in an area like or similar to Bloomington is $50. The cost goes down with the more you buy. No way LS was looking to get a ball for just herself so that lends credibility to JR and possibly others being involved with the purchase. I am very experienced when it comes to drug use and the amount that the human body can consume. Unless LS was a regular habitual user, if she got her hands on an eighth of an ounce of cocaine, it was intended for her and at least a couple of other friends if not 5-6 people. Considering the time, unless she intended to be up until well into the next day or was saving it for another time(highly unlikely) a group of people would have been involved.

 

[imkeylime]

It just occurred to me that the dumpster in question, is not necessarily the dumpster behind 5 North (as I've been thinking) and shown in Btown's post #5 at IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 *PHOTOS & MAPS* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community.

It could be any dumpster along the alley route, along College Ave and the little alleys off of it, and behind miscellaneous buildings. It could be a construction site dumpster too.

What confuses me is reports that the dogs hit on a dumpster near where she was last seen ... does that mean "seen" by camera while walking to 5 North or "seen" by JR when leaving 5 North? If it was a construction site dumpster, I wonder if it would trace to the same landfill as other Bloomington dumpsters? Maybe the contractor provides its own dumpster? If so, I'd think that would also have been checked (hopefully).

It's a long shot, but she could have been placed in a container of some sort (barrel?) and then disposed of at a different site, like a lake. That might imply that another party picked the container up, I guess.

 

[LongTallTexan]

In looking back through Btown's pics on the previous thread I had some thoughts. First of all, it based on the premise that the current time lime is fairly accurate and that she did leave JRs and head for the corner of 11th and College at some point after 4.
There are a couple things I find interesting....and let me preface by saying I realize the possibilities are endless and with the few facts we have, almost anything is possible...but this is just another perspective. The fact that LS was on 'making her way' with CR on video at different points on the route from her apt to 5N, is a good reason to believe they were headed that way, so I'm going with the idea that they made it....that's what has been claimed in MSM by several sources. So that is the premise for LS to be there after 3:00 AM, approx. The next account is that she left for JRs, made a call from JRs phone, and then left as he watched. The call be 100 different things, but I too don't believe JR would place her there if she wasn't there....possible, not likely for my scenario. I also was one of several on here that didn't believe that he 'watched' her leave and 'turn the corner'......But now I see a very small bacony and see that while the view is somewhat blocked, it's very possbile that he did watch her....so a bit of a change of heart on my part. The next interesting thing is that she didn't choose to take the same way home??? Why not take the alley back home? It's the way she came, it's human nature to habitually travel the same path for most people....it seems a bit more direct conceptually, althoght the distance is rather similar. Why go to College....it makes be believe she was headed someplace else? Kilroys for her stuff, to meet DD, to meet JW, another fiend??? Maybe she was hungry for waffles? But if she was at 5N, and did leave up 11th to College, I think there may have been more to her agenda than going home.

 

[Gabby66]

In looking back through Btown's pics on the previous thread I had some thoughts. First of all, it based on the premise that the current time lime is fairly accurate and that she did leave JRs and head for the corner of 11th and College at some point after 4.
There are a couple things I find interesting....and let me preface by saying I realize the possibilities are endless and with the few facts we have, almost anything is possible...but this is just another perspective. The fact that LS was on 'making her way' with CR on video at different points on the route from her apt to 5N, is a good reason to believe they were headed that way, so I'm going with the idea that they made it....that's what has been claimed in MSM by several sources. So that is the premise for LS to be there after 3:00 AM, approx. The next account is that she left for JRs, made a call from JRs phone, and then left as he watched. The call be 100 different things, but I too don't believe JR would place her there if she wasn't there....possible, not likely for my scenario. I also was one of several on here that didn't believe that he 'watched' her leave and 'turn the corner'......But now I see a very small bacony and see that while the view is somewhat blocked, it's very possbile that he did watch her....so a bit of a change of heart on my part. The next interesting thing is that she didn't choose to take the same way home??? Why not take the alley back home? It's the way she came, it's human nature to habitually travel the same path for most people....it seems a bit more direct conceptually, althoght the distance is rather similar. Why go to College....it makes be believe she was headed someplace else? Kilroys for her stuff, to meet DD, to meet JW, another fiend??? Maybe she was hungry for waffles? But if she was at 5N, and did leave up 11th to College, I think there may have been more to her agenda than going home.

I can agree with this. However, I am also wondering how "safe" she would have felt to return via the alley alone. There are times when I'd travel certain paths with my husband or even another friend, late at night, yet I wouldn't feel comfortable traveling that same path alone. I've wondered IF she left JR's that night, if she didn't take College only b/c it was more lit, or perhaps b/c it's a more protected path, being that she was barefoot. Aside from those thoughts, I'd agree that most would take the same route.

 

[LongTallTexan]

The other thing that came to mind a few posts back was about questions POI. What about the guy who punched CR. I"m no LE, but I would think that's enough to at least question the guy....the questions s/b?
Why did you punch CR?
Why were you at Smallwood?
Who were you with?
What condition was LS in?
Why did LS leave again if she had just got there?
Did LS visit her apt or anyone elses while they were there?
Was anyone else with them?
I could go on.....I would think they could gather a lot of info in a statement from the guy?

 

[AnalyticalExaminer]

The other thing that came to mind a few posts back was about questions POI. What about the guy who punched CR. I"m no LE, but I would think that's enough to at least question the guy....the questions s/b?
Why did you punch CR?
Why were you at Smallwood?
Who were you with?
What condition was LS in?
Why did LS leave again if she had just got there?
Did LS visit her apt or anyone elses while they were there?
Was anyone else with them?
I could go on.....I would think they could gather a lot of info in a statement from the guy?

Between eyewitness reports and video footage, LE assuredly knows who the puncher is and who was with him. They also know something about LS's condition at the time from contemporaneous video if not video of the confrontation itself. They know that LS did not visit her apartment, as they've told us that. Presumably they also know whether she visited any other apartment (my impression is no, but it could be wrong). As to motive for punching CR, I'm sure they've questioned the puncher. If he is who has been rumored, there has been no arrest. Presumably there's a reason for that.

 

[LongTallTexan]

Between eyewitness reports and video footage, LE assuredly knows who the puncher is and who was with him. They also know something about LS's condition at the time from contemporaneous video if not video of the confrontation itself. They know that LS did not visit her apartment, as they've told us that. Presumably they also know whether she visited any other apartment (my impression is no, but it could be wrong). As to motive for punching CR, I'm sure they've questioned the puncher. If he is who has been rumored, there has been no arrest. Presumably there's a reason for that.

A agree with the presumptions, but my point is that this could have been a format statement/testimony from a POI that they has good reason to question. I just don't get the feeling that they really have this much....I'd really like to see a formal statement from him.

Furthermore, at this point, I believe, that LE needs help.

 

[Darcyline]

I do think LE probably has some massive notebooks full of POI (and I am using POI as very general anyone who might be able to fill in any gap in any way) statements. Like, they probably questioned a lot more people than we know about. I am interested to see if they do start getting desperate and leaking some of that info though.

 

[imkeylime]

I can agree with this. However, I am also wondering how "safe" she would have felt to return via the alley alone. There are times when I'd travel certain paths with my husband or even another friend, late at night, yet I wouldn't feel comfortable traveling that same path alone. I've wondered IF she left JR's that night, if she didn't take College only b/c it was more lit, or perhaps b/c it's a more protected path, being that she was barefoot. Aside from those thoughts, I'd agree that most would take the same route.

You raise a good point. College would have been a safer, more lit path, from what I've read. But I've noticed a tendency with some of my daughter's friends to disregard safety when they feel "safe," which I hate. A 95-pound young woman can't defend herself like a 200-pound guy can. But try telling her that. It's hard to say how LS felt that night. Maybe she took the alley path rather automatically ...

 

[holly2325]

In looking back through Btown's pics on the previous thread I had some thoughts. First of all, it based on the premise that the current time lime is fairly accurate and that she did leave JRs and head for the corner of 11th and College at some point after 4.
There are a couple things I find interesting....and let me preface by saying I realize the possibilities are endless and with the few facts we have, almost anything is possible...but this is just another perspective. The fact that LS was on 'making her way' with CR on video at different points on the route from her apt to 5N, is a good reason to believe they were headed that way, so I'm going with the idea that they made it....that's what has been claimed in MSM by several sources. So that is the premise for LS to be there after 3:00 AM, approx. The next account is that she left for JRs, made a call from JRs phone, and then left as he watched. The call be 100 different things, but I too don't believe JR would place her there if she wasn't there....possible, not likely for my scenario. I also was one of several on here that didn't believe that he 'watched' her leave and 'turn the corner'......But now I see a very small bacony and see that while the view is somewhat blocked, it's very possbile that he did watch her....so a bit of a change of heart on my part. The next interesting thing is that she didn't choose to take the same way home??? Why not take the alley back home? It's the way she came, it's human nature to habitually travel the same path for most people....it seems a bit more direct conceptually, althoght the distance is rather similar. Why go to College....it makes be believe she was headed someplace else? Kilroys for her stuff, to meet DD, to meet JW, another fiend??? Maybe she was hungry for waffles? But if she was at 5N, and did leave up 11th to College, I think there may have been more to her agenda than going home.

Possible LS made a drug run but: How did they arrange it and what did they do for 1 1/2 hours? Hmmm.
If LS was heading out to make a drug purchase, wouldn't someone's phone have some calls on it. If I could look at any evidence LE had, it would be phone forensics. MSM has reported that CR's phone has been looked at also I can guess JR and DR due to 4:15 call. I would also like to know what DR has to say about JR's house guest. Also to consider, if LS went out for drugs at 4:30. What did they do for 1 and 1/2 hours?

 

[Jupiter812]

Possible LS made a drug run but: How did they arrange it and what did they do for 1 1/2 hours? Hmmm.
If LS was heading out to make a drug purchase, wouldn't someone's phone have some calls on it. If I could look at any evidence LE had, it would be phone forensics. MSM has reported that CR's phone has been looked at also I can guess JR and DR due to 4:15 call. I would also like to know what DR has to say about JR's house guest. Also to consider, if LS went out for drugs at 4:30. What did they do for 1 and 1/2 hours?

No arrangements were necessary. She could have just gone out on her own to look for the guy from Sports or to ask around. I don't believe the 4:30 time--more like 3:30.

Would like to hear from "doubtingthomas" poster to see if he received any further clarification about the bartender who said she saw LS and a male in front of SW. Helloooo out there, DT!