IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

[Ros]

Honestly, I doubt the stories have any connection. But, they are not sure of this and the new newspaper story makes it seem Bloomington has a serial attacker on the loose. Had the police denied a connection, this would not be national news.

And since no arrests have ever been made connected with the death of Crystal Grubb and since Kate McGrayel is still missing, it is not impossible that there is such a predator in the Bloomington area.

 

[Ros]

Yet another body found in central Indiana. No apparent link to LS, though. Body is that of a man.
http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=88329
http://www.indystar.com/article/20...=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com&nclick_check=1

 

[friendsara]

And since no arrests have ever been made connected with the death of Crystal Grubb and since Kate McGrayel is still missing, it is not impossible that there is such a predator in the Bloomington area.

Kate McGrayel left voluntarily (but not in sound mind).

 

[Snapfade]

jacobite, The people who committed this crime foiled and escaped all modern technology. I don't think the police were counting on that. Dogs might have given more information though. A dog still might find her.

And, of course, I am making an assumption that the dog trail is from Smallwood and ends before 5 N while she is in the care of CR. I am assuming this is the reason why RS calls CR a liar and coward.



It was my understanding the dogs started the tracking from 5N, not smallwood. And I stand by my very first posting on webslueths....That is not made up or theorized...but I dont have enough specifics to know if its relevent to her disappearance.

 

[Jacobite]

That would change everything, if it is true.

 

[akh]

That would change everything, if it is true.

Are we talking about the scent going from 5N to JW's?

 

[Jacobite]

I was told the dog lost her scent in the alley area towards Morton. I have assumed the tracking dog trail was from Smallwood. This would point the finger at CR. However, if the dog trail is from 5 N to that location instead, it might clear CR, MB, AND JR. We need to confirm because it's very important as anything now becomes possible.

 

[Snapfade]

Yes....i was told this by a friend in LE, that is not and never has been an investigator of this case. he does not work in the same district even.... But in 2011 , he did..

 

[Snapfade]

I will try to confirm

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

The dogs can smell the direction of travel?

 

[elmomom]

The dogs can smell the direction of travel?

They track from oldest to newest scent, so, yes they will be able to figure direction of travel. It's based on predator instinct tracking prey to its location.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

They track from oldest to newest scent, so, yes they will be able to figure direction of travel. It's based on predator instinct tracking prey to its location.

Cool. I learn something new here everyday.

On JW's backdoor. I think the dog tracking to JW's back door might need to be verified because I'm not sure LS's parents would have said anything they said in the interview below if that was legit.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...hters-disappearance-20120119,0,5833286.column

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

Not a bloodhound or a Lab.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-2301833.sto

 

[elmomom]

Cool. I learn something new here everyday.

On JW's backdoor. I think the dog tracking to JW's back door might need to be verified because I'm not sure LS's parents would have said anything they said in the interview below if that was legit.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...hters-disappearance-20120119,0,5833286.column

Despite the popular sentiment here, I do not place much importance on what the Spierer's say, or don't say. First, I do believe that some of what they have said publicly was based on suggestions made by LE to aid the case. second, I do not believe that they are privy to much of LE's information, it would be highly unusual for LE to share much info with them based on most cases I have followed. And I do remember they were told something early on (the ZO and company's confrontation of CR at Smallwood) that they were not supposed to share with the public, which they immediately leaked to the public... And they tried to deny it when LE wouldn't discuss it. After that episode, I am sure the amount if info LE has shared with them is strictly limited, as it has been in almost all of the case I have followed.

 

[Ros]

Kate McGrayel left voluntarily (but not in sound mind).

True, Kate left voluntarily, and it appears that it was a few days before anyone noticed that she was gone, but its been years and her family and friends have had no contact since Easter of 2010. One person claimed to have seen her in Bloomington in November of 2010, but after that, nothing.

https://www.facebook.com/events/147020222015027/

So even if she left voluntarily, she may not have stayed away voluntarily. We simply don't know. She could be alive and well and hiding, or not...

 

[Ros]

Not a bloodhound or a Lab.

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/stories/2011/06/30/news.qp-2301833.sto

I think that is a photo of one of the dog (cadaver dog perhaps?) that was brought in weeks later, not the search and rescue dogs that were used the weekend after she disappeared.

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=87372

 

[imkeylime]

What if the mystery man sighting was really 4:38AM?

I'm so behind! But ... the witness and mystery man sighting bothers me the way the white truck does. It so seems like it should fit, or move this case along somehow. But it doesn't, or at least LE doesn't seem to think that it does.

I've read the posts about whether the witness was a bar manager or a restaurant manager, and I'm not sure the 4:38 am time works for either.

If she was a bar manager, and her bar closed at 3 am, I don't think it would take that long to clean/close up. I think that most pizza places would be closed by 3 am, too, and the same thing would apply. The third shift for the Waffle House is 9 p.m. to 7 a.m. (in most cities, anyhow).

IMO, it makes more sense that the mystery man was indeed CR, and that the witness saw him an hour earlier, but that time frame doesn't fit, either.

Perplexing.

 

[SeeingForThe1stTime]

I'm so behind! But ... the witness and mystery man sighting bothers me the way the white truck does. It so seems like it should fit, or move this case along somehow. But it doesn't, or at least LE doesn't seem to think that it does.

I've read the posts about whether the witness was a bar manager or a restaurant manager, and I'm not sure the 4:38 am time works for either.

If she was a bar manager, and her bar closed at 3 am, I don't think it would take that long to clean/close up. I think that most pizza places would be closed by 3 am, too, and the same thing would apply. The third shift for the Waffle House is 9 p.m. to 7 a.m. (in most cities, anyhow).

IMO, it makes more sense that the mystery man was indeed CR, and that the witness saw him an hour earlier, but that time frame doesn't fit, either.

Perplexing.

That was the same reasoning I had about the mystery man too. It bothers me as well, but I've just come to a point where since I can't reconcile it, I had to set it aside. It seems like LE must have a reason not to be focused on it, or even really give it any credibility. It doesn't make sense to me that LE says they won't use it in their official time line because there isn't any video evidence to back it up, however they do include JR's story about watching her walk to the corner without any video evidence.
The white truck still bugs me too, a lot. Just like the white truck in Samantha Konings case bothered me, but when I'd try to work with it, I was always reminded that LE had cleared it. Now we know that wasn't really the exact truth at all, in fact the exact opposite was true. I wonder if it's the same with this white truck. It could be, but then it could be really nothing. Soooo frustrating. If it isn't really cleared that doesn't, in my mind, clear any POI in favor of a stranger abduction at all, it only implicates certain POI's further.

 

[Ros]

That was the same reasoning I had about the mystery man too. It bothers me as well, but I've just come to a point where since I can't reconcile it, I had to set it aside. It seems like LE must have a reason not to be focused on it, or even really give it any credibility. It doesn't make sense to me that LE says they won't use it in their official time line because there isn't any video evidence to back it up, however they do include JR's story about watching her walk to the corner without any video evidence.
The white truck still bugs me too, a lot. Just like the white truck in Samantha Konings case bothered me, but when I'd try to work with it, I was always reminded that LE had cleared it. Now we know that wasn't really the exact truth at all, in fact the exact opposite was true. I wonder if it's the same with this white truck. It could be, but then it could be really nothing. Soooo frustrating. If it isn't really cleared that doesn't, in my mind, clear any POI in favor of a stranger abduction at all, it only implicates certain POI's further.

What troubles me about the white truck is the explanation that it did not really go around the block. Apparently there were two cameras viewing the same area with timestamps about 10 minutes apart. If the truck really went around the block twice, then it should have appeared on both cameras twice. If it went around the block once, it should have appeared on each one one time. I am surprised that they did not figure this out right away.

The other thing that surprises me is that the white truck seems to have been the ONLY vehicle in the area that night that LE has had any interest in. I would think they would want to talk with the driver of EVERY vehicle in the area that night.

 

[akh]

I'm so behind! But ... the witness and mystery man sighting bothers me the way the white truck does. It so seems like it should fit, or move this case along somehow. But it doesn't, or at least LE doesn't seem to think that it does.

I've read the posts about whether the witness was a bar manager or a restaurant manager, and I'm not sure the 4:38 am time works for either.

If she was a bar manager, and her bar closed at 3 am, I don't think it would take that long to clean/close up. I think that most pizza places would be closed by 3 am, too, and the same thing would apply. The third shift for the Waffle House is 9 p.m. to 7 a.m. (in most cities, anyhow).

IMO, it makes more sense that the mystery man was indeed CR, and that the witness saw him an hour earlier, but that time frame doesn't fit, either.

Perplexing.

Once you acknowledge the 3:38AM witness timeframe could be off then it's no longer possible to know how much or how little and which way it's off (at least not from what the public has been told). It's been explained already how it could take some time to get out of a bar if you are the manager. Enough that 3:38AM wouldn't necessarily be enough time to depart. And it's also just an assumption this sighting happened immediately after leaving the bar AFAIK.

And a lot of bars use (or did anyway) 'bar time'... They set their clocks forward some in order to not take it to the wire on serving after 3AM or not having the place cleared by 3:30AM. So maybe that becomes a factor too in an inaccurate time (although I don't see how 10-15mins makes the 3:38AM time fit any better in and of itself.

It's not really been said what time the witness' bar actually closed that night AFAIK.

But at least in the case of the white truck LE claims to have found the owner and their story checks out as well as noted a discrepancy that meant the truck wasn't actually circling the block. With this mystery witness and mystery man sighting LE could not have been any more vague on what they thought of the report, the credibility, or the accuracy of the time, etc..