IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #28

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Frank Joseph Giza III


Above: Giza, circa 2009


Vital Statistics at Time of Disappearance

Missing Since: June 2009 from Bloomington, Indiana
Classification: Endangered Missing
Age: 25 years old
Height and Weight: 6'0, 150 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: Caucasian male. Brown hair, brown eyes. Giza's nickname is Joey. He has a birthmark on the lower right side of his back.


Details of Disappearance

Giza left his home in Baltimore, Maryland in the spring of 2009 to travel across the country and visit music festivals. He didn't take anything with him and wasn't carrying any official identification. He was last seen in Bloomington, Indiana sometime during June 2009. He was staying with a friend when they got into an argument and Giza left. He was supposed to go to music festivals in Tennessee and West Virginia, but never arrived in either place and has never been heard from again.
Although there is no evidence of foul play in Giza's disappearance, his mother fears for his safety. His case remains unsolved.



Investigating Agency

See, here's an example of someone just vanishing out of thin air in Bloomington, same time of year as LS by the way. I'll bet his friend he disagreed with was totally blamed, etc. but is innocent. I agree with most on this board and will give the friends 75% possibility of knowing what happened. But the other 25% is very possible as well.

I'm editing because the picture didn't show. The guy is adorable, looks like a happy friendly person like LS and MS.Just like Lauren, he was everywhere and then suddenly nowhere.
 
QUESTION? Did any of the POI leave Bloomington before BPD brought out dogs Saturday evening 4 June?
 
Blythe said:
Having been convinced somewhat that LS could have been able to leave JR's; I want to know about 4:30 AM til 8:00 AM. Who was out within that time frame within the distance between 5N and Smallwood? What was not seen (Lauren) is as important as what was seen. Upon leaving 5N (if) did she have a random impulsive thought and go somewhere other than home? Did she collapse? Who might have seen her?
Click to expand...

bumping an old post, my thoughts exactly!
 
SeeingForThe1stTime said:
I've been up and down this road so many times and I always come back to same dead end; LS isn't found on any more cameras after leaving the alley.
Click to expand...

Jay Rosenbaum claims Lauren took a way home that did not have one camera that would have captured her image before she reached Smallwood.

Unfortunately there were no cams in the area of 5 North either.
 
Going the direction JR says she went, how far would she have had to make it before being picked up on the next camera?
 
She would have to make it all the way home unless Carl Saltzman's cam would have caught her.
 
Anyone else notice that DB is friends with MB on Facebook? DB & JR have photos of MB on their facebook as recent as last month. Not sure if that is significant, but I found it interesting. As far as I knew, MB only knew CR. He clearly hangs with those two. Also, interesting that DB is friends with MB. Maybe they are more closely connected than I originally thought (originally, I thought the connection was JR & CR between the two apartments).


In fact, honestly, I never once got any kind of vibe that MB and JR were friends at all. In the version where LS doesn't just disappear from MB's apartment (aka, the one where he actually claims to take her to JR's), isn't it made to sound like he knew JR was friends with LS and took her there because of that reason?

It would change things, in my opinion, if MB was friends with JR. It makes it much more likely that he would involve JR as HIS friend, not solely because JR was a friend of LS.

That would change some of my thoughts about JR too. If MB AND CR are his friends, I can see a conflicting interest in his supposed friendship with LS and one with MB AND CR.

If DB and MB were friends too, that could change things. It looks like MB won some kind of challenge by the company that DB & JR have together.

Of course, the friendship could have developed AFTER LS disappeared.... My intuition tells me that if JR and DB are starting a business together and DB inadvertently became tied/found out about (whichever you believe) because of his Runciple Spoon tweet, the last thing they would want to do is become close with another POI. Another thing, why would they tie this other POI with their BUDDING COMPANY? It seems like the last thing they would want is to showcase another POI in relation to their company.

I honestly really thought that MB was only connected to CR. The fact that he is friends with and has been hanging with JR and DB really makes me question a lot of things. If they were all friends before, it makes me wonder if something happened to LS, wouldn't it seem reasonable to think that they (JR & DB) would be more likely to help/assist/cover for/with CR & MB? If this friendship blossomed AFTER, I find that equally odd and suspect.

I took screenshots just in case, but they are public photos.
 
sammi89 said:
Anyone else notice that DB is friends with MB on Facebook? DB & JR have photos of MB on their facebook as recent as last month. Not sure if that is significant, but I found it interesting. As far as I knew, MB only knew CR. He clearly hangs with those two. Also, interesting that DB is friends with MB. Maybe they are more closely connected than I originally thought (originally, I thought the connection was JR & CR between the two apartments).
Click to expand...

Quite awhile back, i stumbled across a friends list of DB's that I was pretty sure had MB on it. It might have included his first initial and last name. It wasn't FB ... it may have been PT-related. And then most of DB's on-line stuff went private. IDK ... but I clearly remember thinking they'd had contact before LS disappeared.

I wish I'd been technically savvy enough to capture that somehow so I could check it out further.

My guess is that DB visited enough for them to become friends.
 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okUF8_5fnCQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okUF8_5fnCQ[/ame]
 
Jacobite said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okUF8_5fnCQ
Click to expand...

Ugh, what a stupid segment.

First of all, JW has not taken an LE polygraph. And his name is JESSE.

The 'legal analyst' starts out by saying that unfortunately, the POI have no duty to cooperate with the parents because they could incriminate themselves BUT it is the duty of LE to interview them, so that's where the Spierers' anger should be directed. Huh? The POI also have no legal obligation to cooperate with LE for the same reason, so how is LE supposed to interview them?

Then the defense attorney encourages the POI NOT to take a polygraph, and ends by putting the responsibility on "the mother" to bring their names into the public and take it into her own hands, as in the case of Joran Van der Sloot. Right, because that is a real success story.

Oh Fox news. Sigh.
 
:candle: for Lauren and her family this first night of Chanukah.
 
SeeingForThe1stTime said:
I've been up and down this road so many times and I always come back to same dead end; LS isn't found on any more cameras after leaving the alley.
Click to expand...

I think it's important to note, that not only does she not show up on any videos, but in this video the last known state of her was falling (without blocking) face down. LE may know a little more than that. Like was she dragged away, was she picked up, or did she actually get up on her own(the least likely in my view).
 
sammi89 said:
Anyone else notice that DB is friends with MB on Facebook? DB & JR have photos of MB on their facebook as recent as last month. Not sure if that is significant, but I found it interesting. As far as I knew, MB only knew CR. He clearly hangs with those two. Also, interesting that DB is friends with MB. Maybe they are more closely connected than I originally thought (originally, I thought the connection was JR & CR between the two apartments).


In fact, honestly, I never once got any kind of vibe that MB and JR were friends at all. In the version where LS doesn't just disappear from MB's apartment (aka, the one where he actually claims to take her to JR's), isn't it made to sound like he knew JR was friends with LS and took her there because of that reason?

It would change things, in my opinion, if MB was friends with JR. It makes it much more likely that he would involve JR as HIS friend, not solely because JR was a friend of LS.

That would change some of my thoughts about JR too. If MB AND CR are his friends, I can see a conflicting interest in his supposed friendship with LS and one with MB AND CR.

If DB and MB were friends too, that could change things. It looks like MB won some kind of challenge by the company that DB & JR have together.

Of course, the friendship could have developed AFTER LS disappeared.... My intuition tells me that if JR and DB are starting a business together and DB inadvertently became tied/found out about (whichever you believe) because of his Runciple Spoon tweet, the last thing they would want to do is become close with another POI. Another thing, why would they tie this other POI with their BUDDING COMPANY? It seems like the last thing they would want is to showcase another POI in relation to their company.

I honestly really thought that MB was only connected to CR. The fact that he is friends with and has been hanging with JR and DB really makes me question a lot of things. If they were all friends before, it makes me wonder if something happened to LS, wouldn't it seem reasonable to think that they (JR & DB) would be more likely to help/assist/cover for/with CR & MB? If this friendship blossomed AFTER, I find that equally odd and suspect.

I took screenshots just in case, but they are public photos.
Click to expand...

Doesn't change anything for me. What would it change. In my view CR/MB/JR all are lying in varying degrees. It that most of the POI's knew each other to some extent or crossed paths in various ways. So, what did it change for you?
 
Why did they dispose of LS's body? (and yes, this is based on the theory that those at 5N are "they", which I consider to be the prevailing theory and increasingly supported by what WSr's are allowed to know and analysis of that information)

This is not a new question. At this time, I am convinced that while *someone* may have had sexual intent in mind that night, the reason to vanish the body had to do with exactly what drugs were in her system. (even so, I think actual cause of death would have been drug interactions including alcohol and their effects - like drowning on vomit, head injuries, her health condition or some combination of those things)

For example, if LS had only consumed alcohol at JR's that night and then dropped dead in the gravel lot, I do not think she would be missing. And I would think the same for cocaine.

I think she is missing not because of common substances that would have been found in her system or medicine cabinet, but something else. Klonopin would fall into that category as well as Ecstasy, Rohypnol, GHL, GHB, or if those aren't stupid enough possibly even something as crazy as Bath Salts or Datura. Xanax would be somewhat borderline. While it's effects would also fit the pattern of her declining condition, I'm not sure if this were something she was prescribed and had in her medicine cabinet or not. I do think she trusted others to know the safety of whatever she may have knowingly ingested. (I say this because, offering something to her which is terribly dangerous bears little difference to me than slipping it into her drink) At the same time, when the condition of LS is compared to that of CR, she is in much worse condition. This rightly opens the possibility that she ingested something that CR did not, knowingly or not.
Quite possible that even if she knowingly consumed something, she did not realize the danger or was misinformed about the substance(s).
Since I believe those at 5N are responsible for her missing person, i do not think that some random or devious outside person spiked her drink at Kilroy's. There was some knowledge between them of what she had consumed and the circumstances of her death (whether by panic or more calculatingly) such that we have 1 Amnesia and otherwise major inconsistencies from MB and JR.

Also lean very strongly towards that she most likely had died between 3:00 and 3:30. I feel the calls at 4:15 were made after she was disposed, and stories/strategy (if necessary) were agreed.

I've moved down the list the less likely option that her death resulted from fatal head injuries from mere alcohol intoxication.

Culpability would seem to point to: from whom did the drug or drug cocktail originate? Who supplied this directly to LS? Where did she ingest it? (not ready to rule out that there were 2 different sources of different substances supplied to her)
 
I just wanted to point out that in relation to which drugs and when, it had occurred to me how unlikely the theory that LS used coke to bounce back from the stupor she was in because I don't know why I didn't think of it before but snorting cocaine requires a fair amount of coordination. There are some very deliberate actions that feel very unnatural that one must take and you have to be at least coherent enough to carry out some relatively precise motions to avoid a possible "dusting". Generally, more conherent users are very reluctant to stick their expensive drugs under the nose of someone as messed up as LS was.
 
VeryVeritas said:
Doesn't change anything for me. What would it change. In my view CR/MB/JR all are lying in varying degrees. It that most of the POI's knew each other to some extent or crossed paths in various ways. So, what did it change for you?
Click to expand...



I was under the impression that CR/MB were roommates and friends, and JR/DB were friends, and that maybe MB/CR/JR were acquaintances.

I think friends are much more likely to do things for one another and have each other's back. I think when a friend tells you something, you are much more likely to believe it.

I think the possibility of them to:

1) hide her body, IF she died from some sort of drug ingested, knowingly or unknowingly, increases. I think you're much more likely to listen to your friends in a time of panic, they have some sense of trust in what the other is saying and suggesting, and (usually) you are friends with someone because you have some common beliefs or thoughts in common - not saying they have an inherent belief that this behavior is correct, but knowing the right words to say to sway friends would be useful in persuading them OR they might have had similar fears about what would happen if they got her help/called the police/etc.

2) pull it off successfully (and by successfully, I do not mean keep her hidden from everyone, but merely that they would be able to move her body physically from a to b). They know each other better and would have some idea of how to work together compared to mere acquaintances.

3) keep quiet. Friends check in with one another. They can persuade another to keep quiet when the other is freaking out and thinking about turning themselves. Turning themselves in would also no longer be just turning themselves in, it would be turning in your FRIEND too, so they would actually have an extra motive to keep quiet by default.

That's just how I perceive it, anyway.


How many friends did you keep in touch with after college/high school/etc.? I think for many college is a time when a mere acquaintance can be an extension of your "core group" of friends and you might even call them your "friend" to others. However, life after college, especially when you are working, is time consuming. At least two of them (JR & DB) are running this new company, which you would think would be more time consuming than a lot of other things. They make time to see MB though.

For me, my struggle has always been WHY JR would become involved with this mess by admitting he was the last to see LS. Most media and even the parents seem to really be most skeptical of CR, but I could never reconcile the fact that someone (JR) stepped in and admitted to seeing and being with her AFTER CR. Not only that, but he also (significantly) admitted to seeing her LEAVE 5N (and thus CR/MB, too).


I think, knowing that at least DB/JR/MB are friendly, MB/CR are friendly, and there seems to have been some kind of relationship between JR/CR, provides me at least with more reason to think that JR MIGHT step into the picture.

Additionally, just to point out how much of an outsider LS was that night, JR is the ONLY one reported to be her "friend" out of all of these men. And really, sometimes I even wonder if he was less her friend and more like HT's. For example, I have a friend who refers to a guy specifically as her "brother" (kind of like HT would describe JR, right?) and they are super close. I would hang out with them all the time and attend his parties, but I would never describe myself as a good friend of his, ya know?



That information doesn't add a lot to the discussion, but for me anyway, it provided more reasoning than JR might have gotten involved because he gave something to CR or LS that LS ingested knowingly or unknowingly. It also sheds some light on how DB could factor into things, and also more support that, in all likelihood, he was very much present that night. Two people he hangs out with TO THIS DAY were at 5N (MB & JR).

I would be interested in when LE learned this information and whether or not they searched HIS car or interviewed him. Based on how the others acted (refusing to speak to anyone), I doubt it.

Someone asked where they would hide a body. I think the dumpster is a possibility but rationally & logically (ironic, because it is NOT rational or logical to hide a body), hiding in the 5N dumpster seems a little silly because that would put the focus squarely on the 5N boys had she been found. The fact that DB has been rumored to have been there, his tweet, and the obvious friendship between at least DB/MB/JR at least makes it reasonable to think he might have and probably was present at least at one point during the night. If he was involved and left the next day, that honestly could mean LS could have been hidden anywhere between Indiana & Michigan.


All just my opinion.
 
akh said:
I'm not following. Who/what are you referring to?
Click to expand...

In the link posted above, Tony Gatto has blocked Chick Justin from bombarding him what he must have considered false information. Was he wrong? Her accounts are now being published by Emmis a major broadcaster.

Justin claimed that her friend Tall Boy, a drifter saw Lauren leave Jay's just like he said. Then, Tall Boy hears a scream around 4:36 AM. Emmis Broadcasting printed this rumor in the Indianapolis Monthly. Who is Tall Boy? Why has no investigative reporter tried to track him down? Is he really the drifter from Muncie, Indiana? Evidence seems to indicate this is indeed false information.

Justin found a tweet that finds Jay Rosenbaum's new business partner DB was in Bloomington on the day Lauren went missing eating in a restaurant. Was he really the house guest referenced by HT? If that's true maybe he is also POI number 1. Why did the media print this calling it a rumor without checking it out.

Doesn't anyone else know how to use the phone? Couldn't media have asked DB if he was there? Should he be POI number 1? Or, is CJ completely wrong?

We spent several pages arguing whether the Mystery Man was AB or CR. A quick listen to the detective's account and comparison of the 3 accounts from the one witness made it clear Mystery Man was Cory Rossman. But still we spin in circles. Furthermore, the witness did not see Lauren near the last cam near 10th and College Village. She saw Lauren near 10th and College almost a block away. Either Very Vertias or I have trouble following the detective's simple narrative. I believe he has Lauren on her feet being pulled along by Cory at the last camera, not piggy back.

We spent several pages spinning on the dumpster theory. But a quick phone call to the trash hauler revealed the dumpster was emptied days after Lauren went missing and the owner's wife looked for Lauren in the trash.]

There was doubt about the dogs. So, I spoke on the phone with 3 people who knew. No one else took the time to call.

I can't just keep spinning in circles without looking for answers. So, do I have to be the one to contact DB too? Where are our investigative reporters? I find that very frustrating along with all the foolish ego clashes in this case.

Tony Gatto blocked Chick Justin. But, I think DB needs to answer 2 questions.
Where you at JR's? Are you a POI?

Corey's car was searched with dogs. JR did not have a car. I'm afraid someone else took Lauren Spierer.
 
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