IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

[AbbeyR]

Just thinking this through... How does it work with drunk driving accidents? If someone drinks at a party and gets into an accident, can't the host of the party be held criminally responsible (and face civil suits), even if the person insisted on leaving and driving home? (Social host liability or something?)

Can arguments like this apply outside of driving accidents?

I've always suspected there was a reason the very first thing JR wanted known was that he had supposedly 'run out of alcohol' before Lauren arrived (although I think he said otherwise in his interview with the PI)

 

[Jacobite]

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130531/NEWS02/305310037/Lauren-Spierer-two-years-later-Still-missing-still-mystery-still-no-closure

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130531/NEWS/305310035

 

[Jacobite]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...on-t-give-up?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|s

 

[mfunky]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...on-t-give-up?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|s

So sad.

Oh hey, CR- you want LS's parents to stop "harassing" you? Take the FBI Polygraph....Notice that DR's name wasn't mentioned anywhere in that 4 page article? Yeah, it's because he took and passed an FBI administered polygraph.

 

[AbbeyR]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...on-t-give-up?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|s

I have to say, I really respect Shawn Cohen as a journalist. I was anticipating a LoHud article, and it didn't disappoint. He is the only journalist in this case who has been able bring facts and humanity to Lauren's story and to ask the questions that local news seems to avoid. His articles have been an invaluable source of information -- I'm so glad he continues to write about Lauren and her family.

 

[AbbeyR]

So sad.

Oh hey, CR- you want LS's parents to stop "harassing" you? Take the FBI Polygraph....Notice that DR's name wasn't mentioned anywhere in that 4 page article? Yeah, it's because he took and passed an FBI administered polygraph.

+1

This seems to be the extent of what Corey Rossman calls 'harassment':

Submitting to polygraphs, the Spierers contend, is the only way to confirm that Corey Rossman, Jay Rosenbaum, Mike Beth and Jesse Wolff are being honest about their interactions with 20-year-old Lauren Spierer in the hours before her disappearance. In November, they wrote letters to the parents of all four men pleading for them to get their children to take polygraphs. Two denied the request; two didn’t even respond.

 

[jobid]

http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/loca...e-still-get-lauren-spierer-tips-2-years-later

 

[bx2]

First we've publicly heard from "ZC", one of the girls at the JR pre-party who later was asleep when CR/LS rang her doorbell at Tenth and College.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...en-Spierer-case-3-men-scapegoated-friend-says

 

[mfunky]

First we've publicly heard from "ZC", one of the girls at the JR pre-party who later was asleep when CR/LS rang her doorbell at Tenth and College.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...en-Spierer-case-3-men-scapegoated-friend-says

A- I love all the lohud articles on this case. Hands down the best.

B- I wonder if this girl provided more information that wasn't discussed in this article, because I'm pretty sure most of that information had already been revealed.....like in June 2011.

C- I hope this girl realizes that the reason JR broke down crying could have been for a reason other than regretting not walking LS home....as in regretting not getting LS proper help before she got to the point where she couldn't walk home ever again and/or hiding her whereabouts. Just saying.

D- I think it's great a bouncer rejected JR. And I'm not saying that from a mean place. But it's nice to know that people are on Team Lauren, although it's sad that complete strangers were/are looking out for her more than her friends were, including one she'd known since childhood summers at camp *coughJRcough*.

 

[mfunky]

Haven't heard anything from HT in a while....

http://www.lohud.com/article/20130531/NEWS/305310114/Lauren-Spierer-s-friends-struggle-moving-

 

[akh]

I find it interesting that the parents no longer seem to be discounting the possibility that JW could be involved.

 

[AbbeyR]

First we've publicly heard from "ZC", one of the girls at the JR pre-party who later was asleep when CR/LS rang her doorbell at Tenth and College.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...en-Spierer-case-3-men-scapegoated-friend-says

Hmm, interesting. I remember someone posting about her here a long time ago, but she wasn't named directly. I'll see if I can find that post, because it suggested that she might not be 100% behind the POI, but I can't remember exactly what it was about...

Edited to add: About a year ago, another poster here said that ZC was a good friend of JR and CR but wondered if she had changed her perspective because she was posting messages deploring their silence on FB. (She wasn't named in the post)

 

[Ros]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...on-t-give-up?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|News|s

What struck me in this article was this quote:

"“There’s no one else to throw into the mix,” Mike Ciravolo said after nearly two years of investigating the case with his firm, Beau Dietl & Associates."

Does this mean that the PIs have cleared DB and anyone else who was at 5N? Does this mean that they do not think a stranger abduction is a possibility?

 

[Ros]

http://www.wdrb.com/story/22470812/...ar-anniversary-of-lauren-spierer-disapperance

 

[VeryVeritas]

First we've publicly heard from "ZC", one of the girls at the JR pre-party who later was asleep when CR/LS rang her doorbell at Tenth and College.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201305...en-Spierer-case-3-men-scapegoated-friend-says[/QUOTZE]

Previously established here was that Lauren's / CR's attempt to contact friends at 10th and College(around 2:30 am) occurred between the time LS and CR left SW and that final recorded video just prior to 3:00am. And according to PI's that her falling over sideways from a sitting position audibly slamming her head on concrete also occurred on the steps at 10th and College.

This article is then either in error or has presented a timeline conflict that needs to be investigated.
The article is saying that Lauren was at 10th and College AFTER 3:00am.
Looks to me like a sequence of events error that Lohud needs to correct.

It's also finally good to know who some of the other people were (and up until now, mysteriously absent any females) at JR's that evening.
Although, who was there AFTER 3:30am is what we really need to know.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I have had the same thoughts since reading his comments.

I kept thinking: What was his point? Someone wrote above that there would be no reason to make the "I didn't say I did, I didn't say I didn't" comment, if his lawyer's statement about him losing his memory was true. But if it wasn't true and he wanted people to know that, there's also no reason to say 'maybe I did and maybe I didn't'. He could have just told the truth.

So what did he really want people to know? That he's not even standing by the one little smidgen of (probably fake) information that his lawyer told the public on his behalf. In other words: like the rest of the POI he will not actually commit to a story of what happened that night, which obviously gives them all room to adapt their stories to whatever evidence ends up coming to light.

Except, he could do this anyway by not saying anything. So to me his hostile comments to the Spierers and to the reporters seem almost taunting. Instead of taking any responsibility, he's putting all the blame on them and basically saying: 'look, you're destroying my reputation, well I'm not going to tell you a single thing. Maybe what was said already was true. Maybe it's not. You'll never know".

It's very Joranvanderslooty.

J.V-S. had the same kind of narcissistic entitlement that I read in CR's comments, and displayed the same kind of lack of empathy to Natalee Holloway's mom -- Telling fake stories, then changing the facts, shamelessly. And it would be tempting to say that CR has been 'pushed to the limits' or something because he was under pressure, but every comment from day one has seemed equally hostile. Think of his comments to the witness who tried to intervene when he was carrying Lauren home. Or to the guys at Smallwood. I don't think it's a mystery at all why he got punched in the face.

JMO.

Wouldn't all of this extend to JR and MB too? Here again, even with this Zoe Camp story... we are hearing about the poor poor victims who are being trashed relentlessly in the media... no not Lauren... CR/JR/MB yes these are the poor poor victims who are being "harassed". While your point about hostility is notable, isn't this narcissistic bent common to all three of the main POI's? They have been more concerned about themselves this whole time than what happened to Lauren. They want to move on with their lives as though LS never existed, even though, they are the 3 people last claiming to see her alive. They all seem terribly inconvenienced by Lauren's disappearance, but can't seem to understand why everyone is looking at them. It does reek of Narcissism. These dudes are not the victims. They are hiding something, they are not cooperating, and the longer this goes on the worse they appear.

 

[VeryVeritas]

My guess has always been that CR and LS were going to hookup.

CR and LS were on the 5th floor of Smallwood when CR got punched in the face by one of JW's friends. The fact they were clearly heading to her apartment together that late would definitely suggest they were going to hookup. (Side note- do we know if anyone in the group of boys that confronted CR actually lived on the 5th floor of Smallwood? As in perhaps they were literally awaiting their arrival, and it wasn't a by chance run-in?)

We don't know the exact words that were exchanged between everyone there.... but if they were JW's friends it shouldn't be surprising that CR and LS would leave, in attempt to avoid any kind of confrontation with JW. And to (potentially) hookup.

I can't believe any guy/boyfriend would want their girlfriend out alone with another guy that late at night....so I can imagine JW would be pretty ticked off. He probably sent her phone a bunch of....intense text messages, etc that could support a motive for JW hurting LS or something of that nature. He even could have showed up at Smallwood later that night, there's probably so much we don't know. Personally, I don't see him as being involved, but I definitely believe there's a reason we haven't heard much from him either.

Right from the beginning this type of theory was out there and was the one partially pushed by media distortions, painting ZO as some sort of "hero" for punching CR(which is a criminal act for which he has never been held to account)... and then, if this were a homicide case JW would naturally be the primary suspect. But... only problem is, even after discussing this more times than I really can count, there has been no proof whatsoever that anyone from ZO & co made any contact with JW that night. There is no proof that ZO & Co's dispute with CR had anything to do with Lauren for that matter. While there were words, there does not appear to have been any words coming from LS who was falling down in the elevator and needed CR's assistance to exit. No one from ZO's crew came to her aid or "rescue". There has been no confirmation from CR or ZO or LE for that matter of what this altercation was REALLY about. To me, it was a "Turf" battle.... ZO simply did not want CR sniffing around "his" hen house.

Along similar lines, these early reports, rumors and distortions initially made it seem like it was LS who was helping CR back to his place, which was nonsense.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I had never seen that blog before.

I think MB is a liar, but I actually didn't think the blog was creepy at all. If anything, it made me a little sad. He comes across to me as a nice guy, who seems maybe a little immature (in a boyish way) and hopeful.

In his first photography assignment he wrote this:



I'm sure he never could have imagined writing this what would happen the next year. But unlike CR's sociopathic hostile ranting, this gives me hope. If I knew MB in real life, I would want to tell him: you were right -- being in the spotlight in the face of this tragedy has more than ever given you a chance to find out (and show) who you are. Is this it?

My guess has always been that MB's story was partly true. I think he happened to be around when CR dragged Lauren home. I don't know what happened next, but I don't believe that after telling several people who tried to intervene before that to get lost, that CR then just went to bed. I think it's pretty likely that MB got involved, at least at first, by doing nothing and not stepping in to help Lauren when he should have.

If I were him, I would look at those last statements that CR made to the reporter. CR is pointing fingers at everyone he is threatened by -- The Spierers, the media, even his own lawyer. I would never believe that if I protected someone like that that they would do the same for me.

Agree with your assessment of MB's blog, doesn't seem "weird" to me, he appears to be creative, observant, has a sense of humor too, but there are streaks of narcissism or an attempt at machismo. Essentially this doesn't change my view of him at all, doesn't sound like yours changed either.

Please consider MB with respect to these questions:

1) Given what we know about Lauren's condition vs. CR's condition prior to 3:00am, MB indicates that he puts CR to bed (whether or not CR stays put).
What is going on with LS during that process?

2) Some early accounts from MB were that he tried to get LS to sleep there but she "resisted."
What does this mean to you?

3) Why do you think MB called JR at 3:30am?

4) The prevailing account seems to be that MB walked LS over to JR's after 3:30.
Do you think this is true? If so, how long do you think MB stayed at JR's?

5) If MB brought LS to JR's, but she was falling down unconscious just minutes before this, how long might it take to assist LS down and then back up the stairs necessary to get to JRs?

 

[mfunky]

I find it interesting that the parents no longer seem to be discounting the possibility that JW could be involved.

I thought the same thing.

It would be really interesting to know what LE and the Spierer family knows that we don't know. AKA text messages, interview revelations with JW, etc. Of all the POI's, you'd think he especially would be so involved and vocal about finding out what happened to his girlfriend of two years. Sad.

 

[AbbeyR]

B- I wonder if this girl provided more information that wasn't discussed in this article, because I'm pretty sure most of that information had already been revealed.....like in June 2011.

The one detail she added about the pregame party contradicts JR's two earlier accounts -- In 2011 he told HT he had run out of alcohol before Lauren got there. Then he told the PI's that "the hard alcohol was gone by the time by the time Spierer arrived, though there was still beer".

Indiana University student Zoe Camp saw Lauren Spierer swallowing shots at a party hours before she disappeared

Just pointing it out, since JR made a point of telling people about the alcohol. One more little piece of info that for me, indicates that JR's story is a legal defense, not a story of what actually happened.