IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #29

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Ros said:
This story said that Lauren was supposed to start a summer class at Ivy Tech and then go back to New York for an internship
at Anthropologie:

http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=81822

IU's spring classes had ended on May 6 and summer classes started May 10. I don't know what Ivy Tech's schedule was.

http://registrar.indiana.edu/pdfs/BegEndSemDates.pdf
Click to expand...

http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/st...d-the-truth-we-want-to-know-what-happened.sto

Lauren's mom states in the HT that Lauren was waiting on jesse's classes to end for her ride back to NYC. So, the Ivy Tech class must have been over by June 3.

from Herald Times
Lauren was still in Bloomington at the start of the summer because she was waiting for Wolff to finish his summer class at IU. The two had planned on traveling home to the East Coast together.

“She was really here because she had promised to ride home with Jesse,” Charlene Spierer said. “And she was waiting for Jesse’s class to be over to ride home, and you know, to keep him company.”
 
The comments made by the boyfriends family seem to be the most suspect thing about this case. Is anyone else blown away by the fact that so few recognize that?
 
Jacobite said:
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/st...d-the-truth-we-want-to-know-what-happened.sto

Lauren's mom states in the HT that Lauren was waiting on jesse's classes to end for her ride back to NYC. So, the Ivy Tech class must have been over by June 3.

from Herald Times
Lauren was still in Bloomington at the start of the summer because she was waiting for Wolff to finish his summer class at IU. The two had planned on traveling home to the East Coast together.

“She was really here because she had promised to ride home with Jesse,” Charlene Spierer said. “And she was waiting for Jesse’s class to be over to ride home, and you know, to keep him company.”
Click to expand...

Currently Ivy Tech has 10 week and 8 week summer classes. The 10 week classes start at the end of May and the 8 week classes start during the second week of June. Both end around the beginning of August.

http://www.ivytech.edu/first-day/

I am just pointing out a discrepancy in the accounts of Lauren's reason for being in Bloomington after spring classes had ended. I don't think she'd be able to go to an Ivy Tech summer class that ended at the beginning of August, then do an internship at Anthropologie, and be back in a few weeks to start IU fall classes or study abroad in the fall.
 
Jacobite said:
Read it again. jesse's mom says Lauren's behavior cost her life. No other POI is claiming Lauren died that night. Not one. She's really saying Lauren died because Jesse wasn't there to babysit.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/02/missing-student-boyfriend-family-fume/2382909/

"The one night she went out without him and did what she did unfortunately cost her her life."
Click to expand...

I can see him telling his mom stuff like that during his whole relationship with Lauren. Typical of an abusive person, they're always controlling their spouse/GF or BF because it's for their own good. What about this: the one time she escaped his controlling behavior, she ended up missing.
Now, all statistic spouters, what are the odds of that?

Back to the two phone calls. Could it have been ZO that Lauren/JR attempted to call last and he didn't answer? It fits in because ZO could have been over at Lauren's watching the game--he was on her floor after all.
So...Lauren uses her phone to call/text CR and say she and DR were going to Kilroys and to meet her there. This pisses ZO off. When Lauren and CR
and DR get back to SW, he confronts CR and punches him. CR and LS leave.
(Why didn't DR help Lauren?) Did ZO then take Lauren's phone away from CR?
What if ZO takes Lauren's phone with him to 10th and College where he lives.
Lauren tries to get her friend Zoe Camp to let her in but Zoe doesn't hear her buzz. (?really?) All this is happening within minutes. Lauren gives up but when she gets to 5N, resumes looking for her phone but finally wants to
get home, because of this controlling bf. She doesn't want him to end up with her phone but he does. Now, did he really get it over 25 hours later, or did he first get it right after she was half carried to CRs? just my crazy guessing again.
 
katydid23 said:
BBM

I have always had a hard time accepting that they just let a very drunk, tiny, pretty girl, walk home all alone at 4 am. WHY would they not convince her to stay awhile and crash there? That seems a more normal response, even assuming one might hope to get lucky. JMO It is just hard for me to believe they just watched her stumble into the darkness, all alone.
Click to expand...

It depends on what the PI meant when he said that MB walked her to JR's 'making her his (JR's) problem'. I'm sure I'm paraphrasing but that is very close to what he said. Why was she a 'problem' at all? Poor choice of words on the PI's part or is there something deeper he didn't want to mention?

As far as not convincing her to stay at JR's.... the story is he tried. Supposedly, I believe he even said on record he thought she was going to stay on the couch... but then she decided to leave anyway. This is a place I differ with some of you... If this is true and she insisted on leaving then I don't know what he's supposed to do to stop her. He could've walked with her certainly, but if she wanted to go home, go some place else, or just leave with the destination unknown, in this day and age he could've been in plenty trouble trying to stop her (even if it was for her own good). So giving in an allowing her to leave doesn't strike me as being out of the norm at all.

The bigger question is 'could she leave on her own'. We don't have the evidence to answer that question and apparently LE doesn't either because I can't imagine this case not being further along if there existed evidence that she absolutely could not have left of her own accord (staggering or not).

Not walking with her also doesn't strike me as odd because they'd all lived in the area for some time. They were clearly used to walking and visiting in the area. I don't think they had any fear of their surroundings. I bet it never caused them any more concern to be on those streets and sidewalks than any of us have walking down the hallways in our homes. Maybe that was naive on their part, but not unusual.
 
Just thinking about this case and had a far out idea. What if someone has been posing as RS and CS and sending emails to the PsOI? That might explain the recent claims by CR and JW's parents and an earlier claim by JR that he communicated with the Spierers privately.

I have no idea why someone might do so, though.
 
Ros said:
Thanks. I missed that.
Click to expand...

I missed that, too! I'd like to thank everyone for their posts on the past four pages ... I've had a small personal crisis (husband lost his job), but I've been thinking of Lauren a lot. It's interesting how defensive some of the POIs ... and one POI's parents ... are getting. I'm not sure what that means in psychological terms, but if they want the pressure off, they need to be a part of the solution and not the problem. They need to help find Lauren. That could solve their problem, right? Unless they're part of the reason she's missing.

Also, while I haven't been one who's looked deeply at JW, it does feel like he knows more than he's sharing ... for whatever reason. Perhaps that reason involves the drugs LS allegedly took with DR, since JW wasn't as friendly with JR and Co.? I can't see JW covering for JR, CR, and MB ... but maybe he'd cover for DR's part of the night (and himself, if somehow involved with any drugs).

Regardless, his parents didn't do him any favors in that article ...
 
imkeylime said:
I missed that, too! I'd like to thank everyone for their posts on the past four pages ... I've had a small personal crisis (husband lost his job), but I've been thinking of Lauren a lot. It's interesting how defensive some of the POIs ... and one POI's parents ... are getting. I'm not sure what that means in psychological terms, but if they want the pressure off, they need to be a part of the solution and not the problem. They need to help find Lauren. That could solve their problem, right? Unless they're part of the reason she's missing.

Also, while I haven't been one who's looked deeply at JW, it does feel like he knows more than he's sharing ... for whatever reason. Perhaps that reason involves the drugs LS allegedly took with DR, since JW wasn't as friendly with JR and Co.? I can't see JW covering for JR, CR, and MB ... but maybe he'd cover for DR's part of the night (and himself, if somehow involved with any drugs).

Regardless, his parents didn't do him any favors in that article ...
Click to expand...

Defensive is a good word. Thanks, as I couldn't quite put my finger on it.
"they" are defensive because they are wealthy and can afford high powered attorneys.

If I was in those shoes, I would have to fess up to LE the best I could.
I could not afford a defense attorney.
Bessie used the word "brat" in a previous post. I might add "spoiled brat". Edgemont/Scarsdale NY and Port Washington NY are very high end areas. You don't live there unless you can afford it. I've worked in both.
(BTW, I don't live in either :blushing:)

My heart and support go out to the Spierers' who are taking the tough high road. Looks like a tough fight. May the truth prevail. MHO.

:moo:
 
From the comments of JWs parents, the way I see it they implied 3 things:
1) that they know LS is deceased
2) That they know how she died
3) That the BPD is not to be trusted

So I can see how one could presume her to be deceased. But for them to so blatantly imply that she died because of her drug abuse that is a pretty big stretch unless you know something. And the comments about BPD... where are they going with that? Something is amiss here. Definitely more going on than meets the eye. Combine their comments with CRs recent ramble,HTs "went too far this time" comment and it appears the consensus within LS inner circle is that it is all her fault!
 
Jacobite said:
Take a right on Walnut till you reach 11th. Go left or west on 11th till you reach Jay's place. No cams.
Click to expand...

Would he also know that by going this way, no video image of him would exist? I wonder if these kids would make that connection?
 
bessie said:
The image that looms large in my mind, and has since near the beginning, is that of a young woman in a compromised condition in the company of three young men (possibly four), one of whom is known for acting out on impulse, and by his own admission was inebriated; and another with a less than stellar reputation. All three are intelligent enough to understand the significance of DNA evidence, and as you said, all three had the means to easily eliminate "the evidence" to save their hides.
Click to expand...


The way I see it, DNA evidence is most likely the key to why she has disappeared so completely. It seems to me that there are 3 possible ways she could have disappeared: by running away, by experiencing a freak accident (falling into an open manhole, that sort of thing), or by someone else making her disappear. The odds of the first two seem vanishingly small.

So, who made her disappear and why?

If she died of an OD and/or heart condition at or near 5N I can imagine that the boys would panic and contact one another to discuss what to do, but it doesn’t seem very likely that the plan of action resulting from that discussion would involve hiding her body. I just don’t see them making some sort of blood pact in that situation – the legal ramifications would not be nearly as severe for an OD as they would be for OD AND hiding a corpse. Plus, if blame were assigned for supplying drugs, only one or maybe 2 of them would be incriminated. However, if her body also had incriminating DNA (trying to be tactful here…) from all 3 boys, then they would be much more likely to cover for each other and feel the need to dispose of the evidence.

On the other hand, maybe CR and MB are being truthful and JR is not. Maybe something more happened at JR’s than a couple phone calls and a sobriety test. If the out of town guest(s) were also involved, then the potential locations where her body may have been hidden multiply dramatically.

Unless, of course, JR is telling the truth. If she really did walk away and was abducted by a stranger or acquaintance, I’d suggest that the same logic would hold – if she simply died, the person(s) would be most likely to dump the body in a place where it would eventually be found. But if incriminating DNA was involved, they would be more likely to hide it carefully.

But then there’s the boyfriend… If JW was involved he would be less likely to worry about DNA and more likely to worry that, statistically, he’d be the prime suspect.

So where the heck is she? It’s been a long time. Unless preserved in a freezer or at the bottom of a very deep lake, any DNA evidence is long gone. At this point, I’m afraid that we will never know what really happened unless LE has much more that they are letting on or some witness or POI comes forward to tell us.

So sad.

- John
 
UncleJohn said:
The way I see it, DNA evidence is most likely the key to why she has disappeared so completely. It seems to me that there are 3 possible ways she could have disappeared: by running away, by experiencing a freak accident (falling into an open manhole, that sort of thing), or by someone else making her disappear. The odds of the first two seem vanishingly small.

So, who made her disappear and why?

If she died of an OD and/or heart condition at or near 5N I can imagine that the boys would panic and contact one another to discuss what to do, but it doesn’t seem very likely that the plan of action resulting from that discussion would involve hiding her body. I just don’t see them making some sort of blood pact in that situation – the legal ramifications would not be nearly as severe for an OD as they would be for OD AND hiding a corpse. Plus, if blame were assigned for supplying drugs, only one or maybe 2 of them would be incriminated. However, if her body also had incriminating DNA (trying to be tactful here…) from all 3 boys, then they would be much more likely to cover for each other and feel the need to dispose of the evidence.

On the other hand, maybe CR and MB are being truthful and JR is not. Maybe something more happened at JR’s than a couple phone calls and a sobriety test. If the out of town guest(s) were also involved, then the potential locations where her body may have been hidden multiply dramatically.

Unless, of course, JR is telling the truth. If she really did walk away and was abducted by a stranger or acquaintance, I’d suggest that the same logic would hold – if she simply died, the person(s) would be most likely to dump the body in a place where it would eventually be found. But if incriminating DNA was involved, they would be more likely to hide it carefully.

But then there’s the boyfriend… If JW was involved he would be less likely to worry about DNA and more likely to worry that, statistically, he’d be the prime suspect.

So where the heck is she? It’s been a long time. Unless preserved in a freezer or at the bottom of a very deep lake, any DNA evidence is long gone. At this point, I’m afraid that we will never know what really happened unless LE has much more that they are letting on or some witness or POI comes forward to tell us.

So sad.

- John
Click to expand...
Regarding the bolded sentence, that's exactly my point.

It's hard for me to exclude one or the other because all three have been so cagey, and their stories are too pat. IMO, someone had enough brains to devise a clever method of deception. Make one guy passed out drunk, and the second so immersed in his studies he's clueless to virtually everything around him. That leaves one to tell the story that LS left on her own. It's much neater that way, no worries about varying statements because only one has to remember the script. Admittedly, there are no hard facts to support the theory, and I might well be wrong, but until someone starts talking, I doubt I'll ever move past the 5N trio.

On the other hand, JW's mother's statements aren't lost on me. I wasn't particularly alarmed by her choice of words that Jacobite pointed out. After two years, I'm sure most people presume LS is "no longer with us", sadly. What I found interesting is her description of the couple's relationship. IF true, it was an unhealthy one.

"... he was guilty of taking care of Lauren"

"Jesse always threatened to call and tell her parents and she said, 'If you do, I'll break up with you'."

"My son took care of her for two years..."

She portrays JW as severely codependent, and that raises some flags for me. I'm just not sure I buy her story, but isn't it ironic that her intent to flame LS has instead turned eyes toward her son.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/02/missing-student-boyfriend-family-fume/2382909/

:moo::moo:
 
elmomom said:
For anyone who wasn't reading the threads at WS in the early days of Lauren's case, you might find them interesting. I remember it being so difficult to talk about JW without suddenly encountering an onslaught of posters vehemently defending him. Some of us used to PM and laugh aloud about it, it was just so bizarre. Nowadays, I have read that lawyers will troll public bulletin boards and float theories to see what works to defend their clients... Who knew? food for thought. But back 2 years ago, I was very uncomfortable with the way the discussions seemed to be overly controlled by some very good and eagle-eyed posters. I also don't put any stock, at all, into the threads at PT. the info there seemed to convenient, too self-serving, and again, way too overlydefensive of JW. I never really suspected him, but the more people posted in the extreme overly defensive way about him, the more suspicious I ended up being. My final take ended up being that whoever was involved, I may never know. But I do know that JW was extremely well protected from the very early start. His Dad punching out CR was the least of it, IMHO.
Pease excuse any typos as I am on my ipad and in somewhat of a rush.
Click to expand...

:goodpost:
 
One more scenario
JR is telling the truth.
After leaving JR's she noticed that lights are still on at CRs and MBs. After turning the corner, she goes back to CRs and MBs to look for her phone etc. and when she gets there, something bad happens. This would explain the inconsistency of stories from MB and the convenient lack of memory for CR and why this pair has not, as far as I know, spoken with CS and RS.

The inconclusive searches of their home and CRs vehicle would tend to rule out this theory, though. Did MB have a car and was it searched?
 
continuing on unclejohn and bessie's thoughts -

to me the two most likely scenarios are;

1) all three of them were involved in something heinous, thus the reason they've covered for each other, or

2) one of them is involved and the other ones (clueless to her disappearance) were covering for their own drug use and other illegal activities not related to her disappearance

i think #2 makes the most sense. if all three of them were involved then, as unclejohn said, if it weren't something awful they wouldn't have hidden a body, lied for two years, etc. if it were something awful that caused them to do that they just don't seem like the hardened criminal types who would be able to cover for each other for years. i guarantee one of those guys would have broken down and flipped on the other two to avoid getting in trouble. if they did something with her then they've spent every single day of the past two years knowing that eventually she'll be found. that seems like a lot of pressure to me especially for kids who seem to rely on their parents for everything.

then, like bessie said, you have a pretty good range of theories for each one of them individually having had a chance to do something. again, to me that makes more sense when you look at the fact that none of them have flipped on the others when they really could paint a picture of being innocent except being in the wrong place at the wrong time and blaming one (or more) of the others for whatever went down.
 
bessie said:
Regarding the bolded sentence, that's exactly my point.

It's hard for me to exclude one or the other because all three have been so cagey, and their stories are too pat. IMO, someone had enough brains to devise a clever method of deception. Make one guy passed out drunk, and the second so immersed in his studies he's clueless to virtually everything around him. That leaves one to tell the story that LS left on her own. It's much neater that way, no worries about varying statements because only one has to remember the script. Admittedly, there are no hard facts to support the theory, and I might well be wrong, but until someone starts talking, I doubt I'll ever move past the 5N trio.

On the other hand, JW's mother's statements aren't lost on me. I wasn't particularly alarmed by her choice of words that Jacobite pointed out. After two years, I'm sure most people presume LS is "no longer with us", sadly. What I found interesting is her description of the couple's relationship. IF true, it was an unhealthy one.

"... he was guilty of taking care of Lauren"

"Jesse always threatened to call and tell her parents and she said, 'If you do, I'll break up with you'."

"My son took care of her for two years..."

She portrays JW as severely codependent, and that raises some flags for me. I'm just not sure I buy her story, but isn't it ironic that her intent to flame LS has instead turned eyes toward her son.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/06/02/missing-student-boyfriend-family-fume/2382909/

:moo::moo:
Click to expand...

BBM: Yes! I have to admit that I had discounted JW a long while ago. Not purposefully, really, but he really just faded to the back of my mind. And now it's like, Whoa, where's this coming from?! JMOO (and I admit that I could very easily be wrong), JW hasn't really been a big "target" for scrutiny. Certainly not like the other guys, right?
 
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