IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #30

[Ixchel13]

I do not think CR asking if anyone has seen the small blonde girls means that he knew LS was missing. He might of just been trying to find her because he had limited memory of the previous night and was trying to get a better picture of what had happened.

But MB was there to tell him--probably it was this early morning when they got their stories straight w. JR too--but to do that, someone would have to have told them she wasn't home--her roomies.
And, somehow very early in the game, they all got their stories "straight":
that no matter what, they weren't going to bring up what drugs THEY were doing.
When Lauren didn't come home, did someone come looking for her?
BTown says there was a woman pedestrian and small car betwn 8th and 9th
that's right by SW on the way/way back from/to 10th and College or 5N.
sometimes I can't express what I'm thinking!
What I'm trying to say is, CR wouldn't be looking for her if MB hadn't told him he took her over to JR's and JR hadn't told them she left his house at
4:30. And how would they all 3 know she wasn't at SW? CR was looking for her before JW. Somehow, he knew she wasn't at SW and wasn't w. JW. If
he were lying, he would wait for her to be found missing, IMO. IOW, the conspiracy could go well beyond the 5N guys.

 

[imkeylime]

Snipped by me. I believe she was wearing flats that night. I'm not sure why she took them off, but the explanation that there's sand (outside) at Sports makes sense to me.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think Sports called JW because he was the last number on her phone. I suppose CR could have fiddled with it, but I kind of see that as more of a girl vs. guy thing. I could be wrong.

You raise a good point about how invested CR was in being alone with LS that night. IDK if going back to SW with her was to further that goal, which the group at SW might have picked up on. But from that point on, he seemed intent on keeping her with him.

OK, so I'm correcting myself here. I just found this from a Lohud article: "'Jesse was texting Lauren the next day to see where she was, but he got no answer because the bar had her phone,' Tamir said. 'After a few texts, the bar texted Jesse back saying your friend left her phone here, tell her to come get it.'"

So it's not clear who LS contacted last, just when CS said she last used her phone (at SW).

 

[Dixie811]

Just thought of something.

We have sometimes speculated that CR & Lauren walked back to Smallwood with the intention (at least, HIS intention) of being alone/hooking up with Lauren. Of course, after the confrontation with ZO & co CR and Lauren never did make it into her apartment and left Smallwood.

But here is what I have been thinking. If CR wanted to be alone with Lauren, his best bet would have been taking her back to 5N in the first place.. right? The only roommate of his that I am aware of, who was in town, was MB. And MB was gone at JR's (IDK whether CR was aware of that or not). College guys also seem to have a "code" of not interrupting/interfering with their friends "hook-ups". Not to mention, MB didn't hardly know Lauren so I doubt he would have been offended by LS hooking up with CR despite the fact that she had a boyfriend.

Girls, on the other hand, tend to be different. I thought that HT was at home that night. Correct me if I'm wrong! Girls tend to step in if a drunk friend is about to hook up with a guy they don't really know. That's not to mention that HT & Lauren's other friends surely knew JW... would they have sat back and allowed her to cheat on him while super drunk, with a guy they weren't close with?? There's also a small chance that JW would have showed up at Lauren's apartment looking for her if he wasn't able to get a text back from her that night.

I am leaning toward there being another motivation behind the unfinished visit to Smallwood. It just seems to me that if CR was trying to get Lauren alone for a hook-up at that point in time, Smallwood would have been a poor choice. His own apartment at 5N seems like the best bet.

What would another reason be? Did Lauren ask CR to take her home? Did he want HT to take care of Lauren because she was so drunk? Were they there for drugs? Obviously they never made it to Lauren's apartment, probably due to ZO's interruption.

Just some of my thoughts. I thought of Lauren's family yesterday while watching fireworks for the Fourth of July.

 

[Mahouston69]

So, I hadn't read this article when it was written June 4, 2012. Interesting to go back and read now. Especially page 7, last paragraph.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?nclick_check=1

 

[bessie]

Just thought of something.

We have sometimes speculated that CR & Lauren walked back to Smallwood with the intention (at least, HIS intention) of being alone/hooking up with Lauren. Of course, after the confrontation with ZO & co CR and Lauren never did make it into her apartment and left Smallwood.

But here is what I have been thinking. If CR wanted to be alone with Lauren, his best bet would have been taking her back to 5N in the first place.. right? The only roommate of his that I am aware of, who was in town, was MB. And MB was gone at JR's (IDK whether CR was aware of that or not). College guys also seem to have a "code" of not interrupting/interfering with their friends "hook-ups". Not to mention, MB didn't hardly know Lauren so I doubt he would have been offended by LS hooking up with CR despite the fact that she had a boyfriend.

Girls, on the other hand, tend to be different. I thought that HT was at home that night. Correct me if I'm wrong! Girls tend to step in if a drunk friend is about to hook up with a guy they don't really know. That's not to mention that HT & Lauren's other friends surely knew JW... would they have sat back and allowed her to cheat on him while super drunk, with a guy they weren't close with?? There's also a small chance that JW would have showed up at Lauren's apartment looking for her if he wasn't able to get a text back from her that night.

I am leaning toward there being another motivation behind the unfinished visit to Smallwood. It just seems to me that if CR was trying to get Lauren alone for a hook-up at that point in time, Smallwood would have been a poor choice. His own apartment at 5N seems like the best bet.

What would another reason be? Did Lauren ask CR to take her home? Did he want HT to take care of Lauren because she was so drunk? Were they there for drugs? Obviously they never made it to Lauren's apartment, probably due to ZO's interruption.

Just some of my thoughts. I thought of Lauren's family yesterday while watching fireworks for the Fourth of July.

IMO, they headed to SW to retrieve something from LS's apartment, like another pair of shoes.

This question drove me bats for the longest time. I finally convinced myself it's irrelevant to what happened later. Not sure, but that was the only way I could resolve it in my mind because I doubt we'll ever know the answer. Just like I never found out what happened to my favorite pair of Candies after I kicked them off in a bar to dance. That was a long time ago.

 

[Ros]

I get alot of flak because I don't believe she left her phone there--but here's why: Apparently, CR knew she was missing by the next morning, when he was asking people around 5N if they had seen a small blonde girl.
We don't know how many people were texting about that in the morning, but CR was out and about, going to CVS, etc. If he was going around asking, he was probably also texting people, too.
If someone had her phone and was playing tricks on her to get her in trouble, mainly posting pics and texting about her being w. CR, the person who took her phone would probably high tail it to Kilroys and put it back.
The phone was discovered when JW kept calling it and this was in the afternoon, IIRC. Anyone could have brought it in starting at opening time
and no one would really notice. People have to realize Kilroys is not a classy bar where someone runs up to a new arrival and takes their order. Just the opposite! Around opening time, they would probably just wait for a customer to get their own drink from the bar.
Say you had been playing tricks on Lauren, first sending pics and texts all around, then keeping her phone from her and getting her all riled up and anxious to get it back pronto. Then, you find out you may have triggered her disappearance after she wouldn't stop looking for it even when she was in no condition to. Yes, you would want to get rid of that phone, especially if only a select few knew you had it. You would need to drop it off at Kilroys.
IMO. either CR dropped it back off, or someone in the HT and roomies group, ZO, ZC, DR, or even JRs out-of-town guests could have done this.
IMO, she could have lost the phone during the altercation at SW.

It is hard to know when CR was asking about a little blonde girl because the original article said it was February [sic] 4. I have assumed that Saturday June 4 was intended. LS was reported missing on June 3.

 

[AbbeyR]

I do not think CR asking if anyone has seen the small blonde girls means that he knew LS was missing. He might of just been trying to find her because he had limited memory of the previous night and was trying to get a better picture of what had happened.

But why would he be looking for her outside the next morning? Where would he think she would be? Hanging out in the alley? Why wouldn't he assume she went home if he last saw her at 4 am?

Like the question about Smallwood (or Bessie's shoes ) this is one of those things that has always bugged me. I can't think of a context in which it makes sense -- It would sound like normal thing to say if it happened right after Lauren left CR's and went to JR's or started to walk home. Once we get to the next day, it seems strangely over concerned or under concerned depending on the time of day (whether or not he knew she was missing). And if it was the following day (friday)? Would he be casually asking a neighbor if he had 'seen a little blonde girl'?

 

[Ixchel13]

But why would he be looking for her outside the next morning? Where would he think she would be? Hanging out in the alley? Why wouldn't he assume she went home if he last saw her at 4 am?

Like the question about Smallwood (or Bessie's shoes ) this is one of those things that has always bugged me. I can't think of a context in which it makes sense -- It would sound like normal thing to say if it happened right after Lauren left CR's and went to JR's or started to walk home. Once we get to the next day, it seems strangely over concerned or under concerned depending on the time of day (whether or not he knew she was missing). And if it was the following day (friday)? Would he be casually asking a neighbor if he had 'seen a little blonde girl'?

exactly. ^^ If MB, CR, and JR spent the time to forge their stories and not veer off, CR wouldn't start randomly asking neighbors before she was reported missing, or before one of her roomies called him to tell him she didn't make it home. As I've stated before, I think they are ALL lying about something. Everyone kind of has a blackmail on everyone else about the drugs. IMO, if one of these players from her roomies, to ZO's gang, to the 10th and College gang, and including the Kilroy's employees--if anyone was
sober that night, or wasn't selling drugs, imbibing drugs or serving minors,
then there might be more finger pointing and forthcomingness.
For instance, her roomies. They haven't blamed anyone, very rare in such a case, after all, their friend is probably deceased and they won't even speculate! Is it because drug abuse will be reported? Even if they couldn't be
prosecuted for it, thanks to Google this info would never go away, and we already know how precious they hold their resumes and their golden futures.
Zoe Camp was at the pregame party and I think went to Kilroys. This is what I mean by what if someone saw Lauren's phone at Kilroy's, right after she left it, and took it with them, and then later that next morning, brought it back when they discovered, ahead of police being notified, that she was missing.
IMO, people had a very good idea she was missing hours before it was reported. How many people were in the loop? The story the 5N POIs are sticking to is so simple, that it precludes anyone else from being involved,
in effect "saving" anyone else from getting into messy drug stories about a bunch of drunk and high people messing with their friend and causing her to run around addled trying to find her phone before her boyfriend did. In return, these guilt-ridden friends aren't going to point fingers about drug dealing POIs.
They could have known she was missing right after she didn't return to SW, even gone looking for her (woman pedestrian, small car seen on camera). That could be the part of the story LE is keeping quiet to fool people .

 

[Ros]

Many people seem to think that CR was asking about a little blonde girl on Friday June 3 when the original article said February 4. I think he was asking about her on Saturday June fourth after she was reported missing on June 3.

 

[AbbeyR]

Many people seem to think that CR was asking about a little blonde girl on Friday June 3 when the original article said February 4. I think he was asking about her on Saturday June fourth after she was reported missing on June 3.

I thought June 3rd, because CM says he saw CR "the next morning" (after the altercation) and I thought it might have been after people started calling around looking for her but before she was officially reported missing. But who knows. Either is possible. It would be interesting to know what else he told them and whether he said why he was looking for her.

Several students who saw Rossman in the period after Spierer vanished questioned the "memory loss," saying he had no bruising or redness to his face that would support the claim.

"Supposedly he had that big altercation, but he didn't look like anything happened to him," said senior Chris Malone, who saw Corey the next morning, Feb. 4.

Rossman was outside his apartment, asking Malone if he'd seen Spierer.

"What's up boys?" Malone quoted Rossman as telling him. "Did you happen to see a little blond girl?"

Malone, who hadn't seen her, said he knows Rossman and roommate Mike Beth because they played in his Fantasy Football League and would sometimes grill together.

"They like to party," he said.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

 

[imkeylime]

Many people seem to think that CR was asking about a little blonde girl on Friday June 3 when the original article said February 4. I think he was asking about her on Saturday June fourth after she was reported missing on June 3.

I think the article meant June 4 (Sat.) vs. June 3 (Fri., the day she was reported missing), since the "4" is a common denominator. I'm not sure how the article got February for June. Ugh.

If it was Sat., June 4, CR's statement could be either 1) him trying to cover up what really happened by pretending to look for her or 2) him really not knowing what ultimately happened to her. ???

IMO, CR may have been wasted, though he was able to carry LS along. He could have been foggy about details, though I don't buy the amnesia story. Regardless, MB and JR probably told him something ...

I've been wondering as of late about his proclaimed "amnesia." I wonder if he said anything to MB before crashing that would dispel that ... i.e., about the fight at SW. It seems like a lot might rest with MB.

 

[AbbeyR]

IMO, if one of these players from her roomies, to ZO's gang, to the 10th and College gang, and including the Kilroy's employees--if anyone was sober that night, or wasn't selling drugs, imbibing drugs or serving minors, then there might be more finger pointing and forthcomingness.
For instance, her roomies. They haven't blamed anyone, very rare in such a case, after all, their friend is probably deceased and they won't even speculate!...causing her to run around addled trying to find her phone before her boyfriend did... <snipped>

Her roommates have publicly expressed doubt about the POI and their refusal to fully cooperate with the investigation or speak to the Spierers.

Beyond that, no one has said they were out that night after Lauren left Smallwood. Some of the people you have questioned weren't even in Bloomington. I'm open to thinking through any theories, but I don't really understand what anyone's motivation would be in hiding her phone (other than maybe CR) or if they did, why they would secretly return it to the bar -- and if Lauren was looking for it, why she wouldn't just call it. JMO

 

[Kadence]

IMO, they headed to SW to retrieve something from LS's apartment, like another pair of shoes.

This question drove me bats for the longest time. I finally convinced myself it's irrelevant to what happened later. Not sure, but that was the only way I could resolve it in my mind because I doubt we'll ever know the answer. Just like I never found out what happened to my favorite pair of Candies after I kicked them off in a bar to dance. That was a long time ago.

OT, lost a pair of Candies myself, my favorite ones, never found them, even when I went back to the bar the next day, long time ago, I hear you!

So, when someone is kicked out of Kilroy's they aren't allowed to retrieve anything they left inside or ask an employee (if they were able, which it sounds that CR was, IMO) to retrieve it? That doesn't seem right to not be able to get something you left behind or ask an employee to get it for you if you were thrown out. I really would like to see video footage from Kilroy's, have we discussed that yet, is there any? Forgive me if it's been discussed, long week here!

 

[Kadence]

I think the article meant June 4 (Sat.) vs. June 3 (Fri., the day she was reported missing), since the "4" is a common denominator. I'm not sure how the article got February for June. Ugh.

If it was Sat., June 4, CR's statement could be either 1) him trying to cover up what really happened by pretending to look for her or 2) him really not knowing what ultimately happened to her. ???

IMO, CR may have been wasted, though he was able to carry LS along. He could have been foggy about details, though I don't buy the amnesia story. Regardless, MB and JR probably told him something ...

I've been wondering as of late about his proclaimed "amnesia." I wonder if he said anything to MB before crashing that would dispel that ... i.e., about the fight at SW. It seems like a lot might rest with MB.

Yes, the proclaimed amnesia seems a bit convenient and maybe a role assigned to someone who can't or won't (?) play the game but who was too involved in the events of the night to not be included. But, perhaps CR lists his amnesia as a way to stay out of it because maybe HE feels threatened by the others? Maybe we are looking at his amnesia in the wrong light? Thoughts?

I'm hoping, as you are imkeylime, that MB will shed some light on this. MB, if you're reading, please do the right thing, for yourself, and above all, for Lauren.

 

[imkeylime]

Yes, the proclaimed amnesia seems a bit convenient and maybe a role assigned to someone who can't or won't (?) play the game but who was too involved in the events of the night to not be included. But, perhaps CR lists his amnesia as a way to stay out of it because maybe HE feels threatened by the others? Maybe we are looking at his amnesia in the wrong light? Thoughts?

I'm hoping, as you are imkeylime, that MB will shed some light on this. MB, if you're reading, please do the right thing, for yourself, and above all, for Lauren.

So maybe his amnesia is his way of protecting himself in a different way than we think, e.g., he knows something that it would be better than he didn't know or he feels guilty about knowing? IMO, CR wanted to be with LS and partied with her to that end. He could have genuinely liked her (and not just wanted to hook up), but why wouldn't he try to help her parents here? I can only think that it's because doing so would incriminate himself or someone he's close to ... or someone who has something on him.

IDK ... IMO, MB is a real loose end. I've always thought that MB or JR might be protecting CR here. But I suppose it could also be CR protecting one of them, especially if they took measures to keep him out of trouble when he wasn't able to take care of himself. What it they did something that wasn't what he would have done under the circumstances? That might put him in a bind that he'd take measures to avoid.

 

[elmorejames]

When CS states that LS last used her phone at 12:16am I've always wondered is that CS's EST or LS's time an hour behind? Is Bloomington an hour behind NYC time?

Reason I ask it the 2011 NBA Finals Mavs vs Heat Game 2 aired at 9pm. Typically, they run 3 hours to about 3 hr 15 min without Overtimes.

So if JW claims he was going to sleep at what time did he inform LS? Would it be 1130 central time? Would lov to know the timing and content of texts pre 12:16 time est or central?

Hope I'm making sense with the time shift...?! JW seems to be a tad premature with his plans. Thursday is the biggest night for college kids to party at least in my school days.

 

[Ashley426]

When CS states that LS last used her phone at 12:16am I've always wondered is that CS's EST or LS's time an hour behind? Is Bloomington an hour behind NYC time?

Indiana is on the same time as New York.

 

[Ros]

I thought June 3rd, because CM says he saw CR "the next morning" (after the altercation) and I thought it might have been after people started calling around looking for her but before she was officially reported missing. But who knows. Either is possible. It would be interesting to know what else he told them and whether he said why he was looking for her.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-06-12-lauren-spierer-missing_n.htm

I wish the reporting had been more precise. To me "the next morning" meant the morning of the next day, i.e.g June 4. I can see how you would have interpreted it differently.

 

[monkey222]

The query at the CVS re: blonde girl missing has always bugged me. If JR saw her round the corner, then the 5N boys would assume she walked home. They knew she was without ph, so calling her in am and not getting answer would be normal. How many messages or attempts to contact her roomate or DR or other players of the evening were made. Asking someone at CVS only hrs after she walked is so out of the norm. Bugs me. Did any of them find a way to determine that she was not at JWs?

 

[Ixchel13]

Her roommates have publicly expressed doubt about the POI and their refusal to fully cooperate with the investigation or speak to the Spierers.

Beyond that, no one has said they were out that night after Lauren left Smallwood. Some of the people you have questioned weren't even in Bloomington. I'm open to thinking through any theories, but I don't really understand what anyone's motivation would be in hiding her phone (other than maybe CR) or if they did, why they would secretly return it to the bar -- and if Lauren was looking for it, why she wouldn't just call it. JMO

HT, ZC, and others were in Bloomington that night. Motivation to hide her phone could be to get her in trouble with JW, or to just break them up. HT didn't "express doubt" until after they were named POIs. Initially, she stood up for both JR and JW.
Notice I wasn't accusing anyone who hid her phone of disposing her body.
IMO, all these 'kids' were drinking and drugging that night. Anything such as
hiding Lauren's phone from her might have been out of jealousy, and IMO
not intended to actually cause physical harm to her.
They would want to return the phone because they didn't want to be blamed for causing Lauren to disappear after continuing to look for her phone.
Fear and Guilt. Powerful motivators.
How about this? Before they ever began to report her missing, if someone had her phone, they knew she was missing because JW was texting her. They get together w. JR, get
their stories straight because really, it's a standoff. JR says, she rounded the corner. XYZ says, you sold her the drugs. JR says, you hid her phone and
were also doing/selling drugs. XYZ says, ok, I'll back you up but no mention of drugs or phone. Later on, after POIs give their stories, heat goes up on them and XYZ vaguely criticized them--not a finger-pointing, but
just confusion as to why they won't be more forthcoming. Not enough to make JR rat them out, that would make him look even guiltier.
In this scenario, POIs still could have disposed of her body, and JW still could have been a POI too. There's always truth in the best lies, and maybe the truth is she was looking for her phone, and knew it wasn't at kilroy's, or if she had left it there, she knew it still wasn't there.
Zoe Camp admits she is consumed with guilt for not letting Lauren in 10th and College. She says the 5N POIs are being scapegoated, but won't say why.
Am I the only one who doesn't quite believe her story? Or at least thinks she knows more?
Again, drugs, drugs, drugs. I think these selfish little morons are thinking
since they can't bring Lauren back, why tell the whole truth and risk getting
drug abuse on their resumes forever?
IIRC, only DR has admitted to taking klonopin w. Lauren. Is it a coincidence that he was the only one to take a LE poly? The only other
"evidence" that Lauren took other drugs is from an employee of Kilroys after they were in trouble for serving Lauren alcohol. Just the klonopin mixed with alcohol is enough to make her super-intoxicated.
But if she in fact was taking anything else she wasn't doing it alone.
we know others were also at JRs at the end because LE has said so. 2 phone calls were made by either JR or LS at 4:15. LE hasn't informed us if anyone else made calls from there, and that wasn't an oversight by LE. Knowing what other phone calls were made by whom and to whom is important to the
hidden part of the investigation. We know JR is saying those 2 calls were made, and the conclusions we are making are based on his timeline of events.
IMO, it is very telling that LE hasn't mentioned any other statements from
anyone else at JRs. Is it because they believe them, or don't believe them?
ZC's statements were not released by LE, she came forward after two years
and released her own statements, not to LE but to MSM, IMO, so that LE would read it. Was she worried about something?