IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31
- Thread starter bessie
- Start date
New Posts
-
GUILTY Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #215- Latest: CrimeDawg123
-
- Status
Jupiter812
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2011
- Messages
- 1,744
- Reaction score
- -15
That's right.
Thx Jupiter. Generalizing, A hang up at 4amish (from an unknown # or a known male #) to a bf whose gf who is supposed to be staying in, but is not answering her ph, well, IMO, adrenaline could be running mighty high.
IIRC the second phone call (in addition to the phone call to DR) was said by LE (or PI's?) to be an individual who had been present for the basketball game/pre-game drinking at Smallwood prior in the evening.
I thought this excluded JW as being the second phone call, as IIRC he was not with Lauren that night at all.
I thought this excluded JW as being the second phone call, as IIRC he was not with Lauren that night at all.
SeeingForThe1stTime
Member
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2010
- Messages
- 423
- Reaction score
- 2
I was just thinking and I had this thought that seems so simple that I'm not sure why I never thought of it before, but earlier this week a read about a case where a couple of guys show up at a party, the party has pretty much ended and the guy giving the party had one girl left over, intoxicated and no ride, these guys offered to take her home. Instead they raped and killed her. Without video of the street outside JR's how can we be sure this didn't happen to Lauren? So, we know that JR and MB were calling around trying to find Lauren a ride and we know about the 2 calls, but what if JR did find her a ride without using his phone to do it. What if he handed her over to someone that said they would take her home. Someone, that when Lauren disappeared, wasn't someone JR could point to for some reason. I want to know who was selling to or buying drugs from them and if there were any major drug investigations going on that led to a bust not long after Lauren disappeared? Also, I wonder exactly how much traffic is shown on the various videos and if LE really tracked down them all and cleared them all. I know of at least one vehicle on the SW video that has never been in any reports from LE. I'm really really discouraged because I feel like there is either so much that LE knows that they aren't sharing or hopefully not, but that they missed too many important facts in the beginning.
SeeingForThe1stTime
Member
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2010
- Messages
- 423
- Reaction score
- 2
The PI also said the JW gave conflicting statements. When pressed about that he said, and I'm just paraphrasing "about him being home and all that, home watching a basketball game' when pressed further he never really answered the reported directly, but said he didn't trust people that weren't open. All that being said, I've never, for some reason, had must suspicion of JW, maybe I've been wrong in that. I don't know.
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
Since Nov. 1 there have been 3 stories in the IDS about rufie rapes. They all say
"in a downtown location", at parties. I don't get it. If I shoplift a pack of gum from Wal Mart, my name and address is gonna be in the paper. At least they could say, "at a party at Varsity Villas Apts," or something vague like that, but these stories give no indication of where these rapes occurred!
Obviously, there's a huge batch of rufies going around. Someone around here is promoting sex crimes against women! If they trace these back, we could even have a suspect for Lauren.
A while back, I had a post erased because I was too graphic about a new drug going around, it was a rufie being masked as a "marshmallow Xanax bar" what it is, is a harmless looking mini marshmallow, the dealers are calling it an equal to one bar of Xanax but it is actually a powerful rufie!
I tell the young women I work with that it's not safe to eat anything they are given out of context! If they are at a party, bar, etc, and someone offers them candy, cookies, or even hot chocolate with marshmallows, it's no thank you.
Bloomington needs to take this rufie business much more seriously, these rufie dealers need to serve hard prison time because by incapacitating these women, they are setting them up for murder as well as rape and robbery. Attempted murder should be the charge for anyone giving someone a rufie..
"in a downtown location", at parties. I don't get it. If I shoplift a pack of gum from Wal Mart, my name and address is gonna be in the paper. At least they could say, "at a party at Varsity Villas Apts," or something vague like that, but these stories give no indication of where these rapes occurred!
Obviously, there's a huge batch of rufies going around. Someone around here is promoting sex crimes against women! If they trace these back, we could even have a suspect for Lauren.
A while back, I had a post erased because I was too graphic about a new drug going around, it was a rufie being masked as a "marshmallow Xanax bar" what it is, is a harmless looking mini marshmallow, the dealers are calling it an equal to one bar of Xanax but it is actually a powerful rufie!
I tell the young women I work with that it's not safe to eat anything they are given out of context! If they are at a party, bar, etc, and someone offers them candy, cookies, or even hot chocolate with marshmallows, it's no thank you.
Bloomington needs to take this rufie business much more seriously, these rufie dealers need to serve hard prison time because by incapacitating these women, they are setting them up for murder as well as rape and robbery. Attempted murder should be the charge for anyone giving someone a rufie..
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
I don't think we can exclude anyone getting a phone call /text from 5N. LE said there were 2 phone calls made from JRs phone, BUT! they never said only two calls were made. And the fact that they won't say who the guy is who was watching the game with Lauren who the second phone call was to.
By believing that only those two calls were made, we immediately eliminate so many people--as if, if they weren't called, then they were completely unaware and had absolutely nothing to do with the aftermath, i.e., what happened to Lauren.
That is too enormous a sweep of possibilities off the table that I'm willing to accept. AbbeyR in particular wants to know why I keep bringing HT into the scenario and placing some of the blame, maybe there's no evidence that she kept Lauren
out of her own apt, I never said LOCKED Lauren out, I said that IMO, JMOO, she probably had something to do with the altercation.
And I think I have every right to speculate on that possibility. If others can speculate an OD, a rape, if others can speculate that everything the 5N POIs say is a lie, I can also speculate that her roomies didn't want CR in their apt. with Lauren.
Look at it this way, IF, IF, IF Hadar knew that Lauren went "too far this time,"how did she find that out, by whom and when? Because according to her, all Hadar had was some wine while watching the game. So, to see Lauren over the edge she would have to be at the altercation. Or at Zoe's, or even up at 5N.
And yes, if Hadar kept Lauren out of their apt., or even wouldn't help her into their apt., then she does bear a huge amount responsibility for what happened next. Like I said, maybe she can't be prosecuted for that, but then,
maybe in a civil suit she could be charged. And why shouldn't she be? For all we know, her family, and the families of others involved with the altercation, could have filed some sort of gag order to prevent the details from coming out about the altercation, who started it, why they started it, and everyone who was involved, not just ZO the puncher. If Lauren had stayed at her apt after coming home from Kilroy's, I would say she would have survived. Obviously, she could have OD'd there but that's very doubtful.
If someone kept her from going in her apt., or suggested to ZO that he keep CR from entering the apt with Lauren, then no matter what their intentions were, misguided loyalty to JW, etc, whomever that someone is, they caused Lauren to go back into the night, hit her head several times, and
take refuge at 5N which then resulted in her disappearance.
And whom could keep Lauren out of her own apt. save another leaseholder? I believe that Hadar called JW, told him all about Lauren being with CR, and JW told her not to let her in with CR. Why does that seem so hard to believe, that a girlfriend would do that to another girlfriend? As a woman, I know we can be petty, vindictive, jealous and even murderous.
Correct me if I am wrong, but we actually have no idea if HT was even at the apartment that night-- correct?
For all we know she may have spent the night sleeping over with a male friend or even other girls she was hanging with, then popped back into the apartment to clean up and change before her class the next day. Or simply returned very late, after the ZO/CR confrontation happened.
Or do we know for sure that she was at home?
This is my personal opinion and not based in fact, but I do feel that if HT had been present and aware of the fight happening between ZO and CR at Smallwood and seen Lauren's state, she would have led her into the apartment and Lauren likely would have passed out and slept until the next morning if she was as intoxicated and unable to function as we have heard from the PIs (or she could still have had an accidental death due to whatever she ingested earlier). I also don't think that CR's presence would have been a deterrent (again this is opinion) because in my experience, roommate often takes precedence over "random guy friend". She would actually have been relieving CR of a very drunk girl who was apparently needing to be carried, etc. and I don't think CR was in any situation to put up a fight with HT after just being punched in the face.
In conclusion, I don't know if HT was even present at the apartment at that time. If she was, I really just don't believe that she was aware of what was taking place out in the hallway between CR/Lauren and ZO. If she had been, I doubt JW would have been the only one raising the alarm initially the next morning when Lauren was MIA.
For all we know she may have spent the night sleeping over with a male friend or even other girls she was hanging with, then popped back into the apartment to clean up and change before her class the next day. Or simply returned very late, after the ZO/CR confrontation happened.
Or do we know for sure that she was at home?
This is my personal opinion and not based in fact, but I do feel that if HT had been present and aware of the fight happening between ZO and CR at Smallwood and seen Lauren's state, she would have led her into the apartment and Lauren likely would have passed out and slept until the next morning if she was as intoxicated and unable to function as we have heard from the PIs (or she could still have had an accidental death due to whatever she ingested earlier). I also don't think that CR's presence would have been a deterrent (again this is opinion) because in my experience, roommate often takes precedence over "random guy friend". She would actually have been relieving CR of a very drunk girl who was apparently needing to be carried, etc. and I don't think CR was in any situation to put up a fight with HT after just being punched in the face.
In conclusion, I don't know if HT was even present at the apartment at that time. If she was, I really just don't believe that she was aware of what was taking place out in the hallway between CR/Lauren and ZO. If she had been, I doubt JW would have been the only one raising the alarm initially the next morning when Lauren was MIA.
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
And you don't believe Hadar is capable of betraying Lauren because.....?
I didn't say I think it is impossible for HT to act poorly as a friend. It is just my opinion that it is not likely things went down the way you have described.
In addition, if Lauren and HT had some sort of "feud" or fighting going on between them that would have prompted HT to want to betray Lauren by locking her out of her own apartment or putting her in a dangerous situation, I think that other friends and also JW, Lauren's long-time boyfriend would have been aware of it. In which case LE should have examined HT's whereabouts and motives very carefully.
I didn't say I find it impossible. IMO, it is unlikely.
We can agree to disagree :seeya:
VeryVeritas
Former Member
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2010
- Messages
- 1,250
- Reaction score
- 2,899
As usual I agree with you. The only thing I don't agree with here is that when ZO clocked CR, there is no indication that they had any concern for LS. They may have TOLD investigators that, but no one actually seemed to help LS, they were fixated on CR. (I still want to know if CR is the one that used LS's keycard to get into SW)
I especially agree that a lot of stuff being talked about now no longer has any basis in fact. That happens when cases get cold and no news is forthcoming from LE. Cases can take many years to solve as frustrating as that can be.
As we see it, the critical path of LS and CR leads from Kilroy's to SW to 10th & College, to the Alley, to the gravel lot and that's it for LS - ALL FACTS.
From there we have wallet and keys dropped and found nearby to the left of the Alley exit into the gravel lot - FACT.
Dog hit at the dumpster - HERESAY.
LS supposedly at CR/MB's between 3:00am and 3:30am - HERESAY FROM MB
LS supposedly at JR's between 3:30am and 4:30am - HERESAY FROM JR
4:15am 2 calls made from JR's to: DR and ?? - FACT
If JW were getting texts about the incident at SW, LE would have serious reason to haul him in. Didn't happen. JW claimed to be asleep and there has been nothing to refute that.
The timeline later in the morning remains very fuzzy for me.
The sequence seems to go like this, but would like to have verifiable times to attach:
JW calls LS (guessing 8am)
JW calls HT (est 9am)
JW gets key from HT (est 9:15am)
JW goes to SW (est 9:30 am)
JW goes to CR/MB's (WHY?)? (est 9:45am)
JW goes to JR's?
CR & MB go to drug store ask about little blonde girl (est 10:00am)
Mr. Spier arrives?
JW and Mr. Spierer go to CR/MB's?
JW and Mr. Spierer go to JR's?
LE is called
DB makes runcible spoon tweet
BBM
For some reason I have always been under the impression that it was JW and his father that confronted the 5N guys the next day, rather than JW and Rob Spierer. Hoping someone can confirm either way with a link?
Tr.
New Member
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2011
- Messages
- 423
- Reaction score
- 5
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
first of all, Abbey and Dixie, I have never postulated that Hadar locked Lauren out of the apt, yet each of you imply that I said that. I also never said they had a feud going on.
Everyone was drinking and drugging. Hadar has been seen on a facebook page sticking her tongue out with a Xanax bar on it, with vodka and shot glasses surrounding her on the counter. IMO, she is lying about just having wine that evening. So, let's assume she is high and drunk and knows Lauren and CR are heading for the apt they share. All she had to do was make a single comment like, "I don't want that guy in my apt" for a drunk and rowdy ZO to fly into action.
When we talk about that night and the people involved, I can't stress enough that they were ALL high and drunk. Was Lauren responsible for her actions leading up to the trek up that alley? Of course she was. Were her friends, in the same way, responsible for their own actions leading to Lauren's trek up that alley? IMO, very much so. We cannot assume that only Lauren made bad choiuces, or that only the 5N POIs made bad choices.
If Hadar wasn't there, IMO, she would have made that clear. Like, "I wish I could have helped Lauren, but I wasn't there. " She had plenty of chances to do that. Instead, she blames Lauren, and defends both JR and JW!
She was at SW during the altercation. She was watching the game down the hall from her apt with Lauren and the mystery man, the second phone call man. Was Lauren trying to call Hadar at this guy's apt during that second call? And at this apt down the hall, she was only drinking wine, but in her own words, "this time Lauren just went too far." Not, "we were all just going a bit too far," which IMO, is true. It is clear when she talks about JW that she adores him, he was just the best boyfriend anyone could have. So, is
it too far-fetched that she would express a desire to keep CR from coming in
with Lauren? Is it too far-fetched to think she would call/text JW when Lauren left to meet up with CR at 5N?
Am I calling Hadar a murderer? Not really. Did she "go too far this time"
and suggest that ZO keep Lauren with CR from entering their apt? I'm saying a big YES. She wouldn't have been trying to keep Lauren out, just him. Out of a huge, drunken, misguided loyalty to Jesse and his gang.
A really loyal friend would have swept the two into the apt to their safety, locked the others out, and sorted it out the next day. Caught up in the drunken melee, HT showed her true colors. Jealousy is a cruel and unforgiving
emotion that is hard to hide when someone has been drinking.
Also, saying that such and such cannot be true or LE would have said so is ludicrous, we probably know very little of what they know. Those 10 initial POI were so because they were involved somehow, and we only know of 4.
Not giving Hadar any slack because IMO, she's lying about something.
Strange how everything that might include Hadar is a mystery. disagreeing :seeya:
Ixchel13
Former Member
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2012
- Messages
- 1,658
- Reaction score
- 1,146
interesting that they went to CRs and not JRs, the last to see Lauren. So it was all about Jesse, not Lauren. Very suspicious. Not defending CR, but why wouldn't he see fear in CR's eyes, when he is being confronted by an angry
older man and Jesse?
Not, "Mr Wolfe flew in to Bloomington and met with the Spierers." but,
that he flew in and confronted the guy who was with Jesse's girlfriend.
Sure, I'd be protective of my son but why, if Jesse was telling the truth, did he need such a back up? And I remember they said something vague about having a friend administer a polygraph to Jesse to make sure he was telling THEM the truth, not to assure LE he was telling the truth.
Well, possibly, behind the scenes right away, these "kids" were trying to figure out how Lauren disappeared and were actually having the nerve to
question Jesse and he immediately called his dad and the dad knew that LE always looks at the boyfriend first.
For all we know, CR could have been trying to take Lauren home. There's absolutely no evidence suggesting that they were just stopping off at Lauren's apt. In fact, in lieu of no explanation for the altercation, I'm going with they were actually trying to stay.
It could be, that somehow, SW security was involved, or sanctioned, the altercation. Both ZO and CR were banned from SW, yet ZO was there
and felt he could even get violent. You'd think after a violent confrontation, someone who was banned would be then kicked out. The altercation has
been covered up, no doubt about that. but why? and who really started it?
If SW security knew and didn't try to help the injured parties, then, they are also liable for what came next. SW did not cooperate with LE right away, and had plenty of time before LE came in with a battering ram to alter their camera footage. To get their ducks in a row, and then convince LE that the altercation had nothing to do with Lauren. They should also be liable for not interrupting the altercation and making sure
Lauren got safely into her apt. What else are they up and running 24/7 for?
Really, the altercation set Lauren's downfall in motion. The liability is there, whether anyone wants to say it, not allowing Lauren into her own apt with her guest, whomever did that for whatever reason, caused her to go incapacitated into the night to her demise.
You make an interesting point here. I'd look for drug busts of "harder" illegal substances ... coke or even prescription drugs. We hear so much about the prevalence and danger of Rx drugs, but IDK exactly how quantities get into the marketplace. I can see kids sharing or selling their prescriptions, but it obviously goes beyond that.
Also, maybe someone close at hand was willing to do a favor in exchange for something? I'm assuming that bank accounts have been checked. And then there's always the guest(s) ...
- Status