IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31

[Jacobite]

On, the other hand, I spoke to a Bloomington Police detective in August, 2011. I told him that a guy came charging after a blonde woman who was with me in the alley near 10the and College village. I told him, I was reporting the incident because I wondered if the same guy could have come after Lauren Spierer?
He just might have, replied the detective. Now, what should I think?

 

[akh]

The problem with this case is, and as Chuz has pointed to with that list of questins, we simply don't know what we don't know. There's absolutely no way to make any determinations with any certainty at all because of the lack of public information. I know I'm repeating myself but that's where we're at here.

People can't just choose what they want to believe to complete the puzzle yet that is the point that we seem to be at.

For the public to aid in this case the public needs more info.

I do question what purpose it serves not to release some or all of the video. If the video shows LS is as incapacitated as some believe it does then it might serve to cause some of the friends of 5N to speak up about things they might know. Maybe they believe them to be innocent and think they've misread something and not want to pile on and misdirect LE (and bring more wrath upon them), but to see that she was incapacitated might cause them to come forward. It might lead them to believe what they know they aren't misreading after all. It could cause them believe it makes 5N look guilty because they are.

OTOH, if she's not as incoherent and incapacitated as some of you have come to believe then it would help the public understand why LE can't discount the 5N story. And maybe something else shown might lead to a tip from the public. Maybe someone else has suspicions about someone they know but believe they are wrong because 5N has to be the guilty party. If the video shows LS' condition to not be as bad as speculated then suddenly their suspicions going in other directions could take on more weight and cause them to report what they've been quiet about. Maybe someone sees a person or vehicle in the video that they know shouldn't be there.

I know there's been a lot of talk about tips lately, but I don't see how there's much chance of any new tips coming in without something new coming into the story.

 

[Jacobite]

I hate to break it to everyone. But, compressed, digital, infrared video can be very fuzzy. Incedents in the distance might not effect enough pixel change to trigger motion detection recording also.

 

[Btown]

It's not possible (perhaps intentionally so) to lay out Lauren's and CR's "exact" path and times. I do think the original map may be inaccurate due to evidence and findings after the map was made and it was never updated.

Hows this?

Pardon the issues, but I only had a few minutes to slap it together...

 

[Chuz Life]

The problem with this case is, and as Chuz has pointed to with that list of questins, we simply don't know what we don't know. There's absolutely no way to make any determinations with any certainty at all because of the lack of public information. I know I'm repeating myself but that's where we're at here.

People can't just choose what they want to believe to complete the puzzle yet that is the point that we seem to be at.

For the public to aid in this case the public needs more info.

I do question what purpose it serves not to release some or all of the video. If the video shows LS is as incapacitated as some believe it does then it might serve to cause some of the friends of 5N to speak up about things they might know. Maybe they believe them to be innocent and think they've misread something and not want to pile on and misdirect LE (and bring more wrath upon them), but to see that she was incapacitated might cause them to come forward. It might lead them to believe what they know they aren't misreading after all. It could cause them believe it makes 5N look guilty because they are.

OTOH, if she's not as incoherent and incapacitated as some of you have come to believe then it would help the public understand why LE can't discount the 5N story. And maybe something else shown might lead to a tip from the public. Maybe someone else has suspicions about someone they know but believe they are wrong because 5N has to be the guilty party. If the video shows LS' condition to not be as bad as speculated then suddenly their suspicions going in other directions could take on more weight and cause them to report what they've been quiet about. Maybe someone sees a person or vehicle in the video that they know shouldn't be there.

I know there's been a lot of talk about tips lately, but I don't see how there's much chance of any new tips coming in without something new coming into the story.

Good rant!

Would that any of the authorities are reading this.

 

[akh]

I hate to break it to everyone. But, compressed, digital, infrared video can be very fuzzy. Incedents in the distance might not effect enough pixel change to trigger motion detection recording also.

And maybe this is another point... Maybe the video shows so little that LE feels it's value is better at making PsOI (or an unknown perp) fear what it might show versus what it actually does (which might be so little that it isn't really of value)?

 

[Chuz Life]

Hows this?

(snipped image)

Pardon the issues, but I only had a few minutes to slap it together...

That's a very good illustration that would account for Zoe Camp's and the Bar Managers witness accounts.

I have a couple questions though.

1. What year was your map and what was the source? (It shows construction that wasn't completed or even started in June 2011) I'd like to see what you can do with this one (see attached).

2. Do we know that Lauren and Corey came up between 5N and the house to the East? The high traffic area on the vacant lot (South of 5N) seems to show they would have cut across diagonally to the corner to where Rosenbaum's apt. was.

EDIT: My original aerial view is a much larger file (more detail) Somehow it gets size limited when it is uploaded.

 

[Btown]

I'd like to see what you can do with this one (see attached).

The high traffic area on the vacant lot (South of 5N) seems to show they would have cut across diagonally to the corner to where Rosenbaum's apt. was.

I'll give it a quick shot...

It doesn't make sense why they would double back south after attempting to visit 10th and College Apts. Then head North up the alley. Why didn't they just continue North? Were they visiting someone in 10th & College Village Apartments too?
Sigh. So many questions...

 

[bx2]

I'll give it a quick shot...

It doesn't make sense why they would double back south after attempting to visit 10th and College Apts. Then head North up the alley. Why didn't they just continue North? Were they visiting someone in 10th & College Village Apartments too?
Sigh. So many questions...

Yup. I made the same point [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9615326&postcount=168"]here[/ame].

Also, your blue line shows them using College to get from SW to T&C. This also isn't known, correct? I had thought it was speculated that they used the alley and were spotted on the Morton Mansions camera as it exits on to 10th.

 

[Chuz Life]

I'll give it a quick shot...

(image snipped)

It doesn't make sense why they would double back south after attempting to visit 10th and College Apts. Then head North up the alley. Why didn't they just continue North? Were they visiting someone in 10th & College Village Apartments too?
Sigh. So many questions...

I think that it makes sense that CR could have been panicking or indecisive given Lauren's worsening condition. I think he may have been looking for someone who knew how to deal with an overdose.

Speculation.... I know.

 

[Chuz Life]

Yup. I made the same point

Also, your blue line shows them using College to get from SW to T&C. This also isn't known, correct? I had thought it was speculated that they used the alley and were spotted on the Morton Mansions camera as it exits on to 10th.

Hey BX2, your comment reminds me of something. It may have been brought up before. But why walk barefoot up the alleyways?

The only reason doing so makes sense to me.... is that CR and LS did not want to be seen by Lauren's boyfriend (Jesse Wolff).

Most all of the news reports and police reports point to the alleys as their most frequented path... but I agree with you about the speculation.

I wish we had some more hard evidence.

Edited to add that some of the times that CR was carrying Lauren may have been because they were walking on gravel and he was trying to protect her bare feet. This also would go against the claim that it was Lauren who was helping him.

 

[Btown]

I had thought it was speculated that they used the alley and were spotted on the Morton Mansions camera as it exits on to 10th.

OK

 

[Btown]

I thought it was more like this.

I suspect they visited or tried to visit someone at 10th & College Village Apartments. Especially since her items were found at the handrail just outside the exit door for that location...

 

[Chuz Life]

OK

(image snipped)

Very good Btown... that depiction is very close to the route I have been trying to nail down with the released time frames.

 

[bx2]

Hey BX2, your comment reminds me of something. It may have been brought up before. But why walk barefoot up the alleyways?

The only reason doing so makes sense to me.... is that CR and LS did not want to be seen by Lauren's boyfriend (Jesse Wolff).

Most all of the news reports and police reports point to the alleys as their most frequented path... but I agree with you about the speculation.

I wish we had some more hard evidence.

If you take a look at the picture thread, you see that the alleys are pretty nicely paved, not much different than a sidewalk. And frankly, the barefoot aspect happens somewhat regularly.

I noticed something else when looking at the picture thread again that may help address one of your earlier points.

Showing the still broken fixture providing what appears to be at least some light. Of course the state of it still isn't known from the week prior.

 

[Chuz Life]

I thought it was more like this.

(image snipped)

I suspect they visited or tried to visit someone at 10th & College Village Apartments. Especially since her items were found at the handrail just outside the exit door for that location...

Village (horizon) apts. have (had) a brand new state of the art camera system that should have shown whether CR and LS were ever on that premises.

Yet, none of the time lines released by the P.D. say they were in there.

Could it be they just stopped at that balcony and made out or something?

 

[Btown]

Showing the still broken fixture providing what appears to be at least some light. Of course the state of it still isn't known from the week prior.

Yeah, they guys were trying to fix the light by replacing the bulb when I was taking pics. That did not work. They would not tell me if it was broken when Lauren went missing. I suspect is was.

 

[Btown]

Village (horizon) apts. have (had) a brand new state of the art camera system that should have shown whether CR and LS were ever on that premises.

Could it be they just stopped at that balcony and made out or something?

I don't recall seeing any cameras when coming from the alley into the garage area. I can double check.

They may have some inside, but I don't know.

The outside alley cam on the North West side is pointed too far down to show them coming out of the building at the handrail.

 

[Chuz Life]

If you take a look at the picture thread, you see that the alleys are pretty nicely paved, not much different than a sidewalk. And frankly, the barefoot aspect happens somewhat regularly.

I did notice that most of the alleyways are paved. I still think CR may have carried LS through some parts which were not paved. That doesn't mean that he didn't also carry her or have to carry her later - when she became incapacitated.

I noticed something else when looking at the picture thread again that may help address one of your earlier points.

Showing the still broken fixture providing what appears to be at least some light. Of course the state of it still isn't known from the week prior.

I think that's a reflection.

Yeah, they guys were trying to fix the light by replacing the bulb when I was taking pics. That did not work. They would not tell me if it was broken when Lauren went missing. I suspect is was.

I wonder if it was broken intentionally...

 

[Chuz Life]

I don't recall seeing any cameras when coming from the alley into the garage area. I can double check.

They may have some inside, but I don't know.

The outside alley cam on the North West side is pointed too far down to show them coming out of the building at the handrail.

The advertisements for leasing at 10th & Village apartments boasts a 'state of the art' camera and security system. I have installed some systems myself and even on a campus in KY. In all likelyhood, every entrance and exit would have a camera on a 'state of the art' system and on a new building like 10th and Village.

If LS and CR were actually inside the facility - it should be on tape.