IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31

[Wondering Aloud]

Random Thoughts:

If police had any indication this was random, I believe a sterner warning would have been issued to local women to be on the lookout. Wishful thinking on my part (since I live here)?

According to reports, DR passed (or at least showed no deception) on an FBI administered polygraph. Can we assume they asked him 'do you know what happened to LS?'? Can we assume that if he took the test, he cooperated in other ways, i.e. gave up his cell phone? I think so.

I ask the above because he is still friends with JR on FB. Good friends and he believes JR is innocent or watching his posts? Is that a female mindset that it has to be either or? Men, can you answer?

So JR claims he saw her (insert which verbiage you believe). According to reports (thru his atty), he went out with the police in the area, gave 2 statements, and shared his phone. Later, same atty reports he also, met with CS and RS, gave DNA and his appt was searched. So, he is either our sociopath, or.........
back to my original theory, someone followed her...MB? What bothers me, IF JR saw her round the corner, is no camera pick up (that we know of), and remember the homeless guy and the scream, did the white truck guys see anything?

The apt. searches by dogs. Didn't search until June 29th. So I wonder, warrant, or consent, or lease ended and property management gave consent? Why did it take so long?

JW, still friends with LS cousin (?) on FB...same question as above. But mostly a rant about his P's. I wouldn't have thought twice had that outburst come from the parent's of any of our other usual POIs. But this is someone their son loved, for quite some time. They should be out demanding the truth. Instead, AW shows more concern for how his dog was treated (i can give it equal...just not more) and NW is all peace, love and harmony except when it comes to LS.

 

[Btown]

The advertisements for leasing at 10th & Village apartments boasts a 'state of the art' camera and security system. I have installed some systems myself and even on a campus in KY. In all likelyhood, every entrance and exit would have a camera on a 'state of the art' system and on a new building like 10th and Village.

If LS and CR were actually inside the facility - it should be on tape.

I've installed them commercially too.
Most of them don't cover every entrance and exit.
For example the back door by the handrail...

 

[Jacobite]

I believe that I read Zoe Camp was asleep when Lauren and Corey knocked on her door. Their visit to her place was likely discovered by LE reviewing video from a hard drive.
The video from her hallway might be pretty clear because it was likely lighted in there.
However the video from outside is mostly infrared and it won't be clear unless you are near the camera.
And, I was told that the tracking dogs lost Lauren's live scent in the area of the alley going towards Morton Street. So, it is likely that something happened there. She died. She passed out. Or, she was put in a car.

 

[Jupiter812]

I believe that I read Zoe Camp was asleep when Lauren and Corey knocked on her door. Their visit to her place was likely discovered by LE reviewing video from a hard drive.
The video from her hallway might be pretty clear because it was likely lighted in there.
However the video from outside is mostly infrared and it won't be clear unless you are near the camera.
And, I was told that the tracking dogs lost Lauren's live scent in the area of the alley going towards Morton Street. So, it is likely that something happened there. She died. She passed out. Or, she was put in a car.

In which case CR, MB, and JR are responsible in part or full else why would they concoct such ever-changing stories over the past years.

 

[Jupiter812]

Btown, thank you. A few thoughts about the path. In the version where they go into the recessed area of 10th and College Village (from the paved alley where they're recorded), I don't think it is possible to knock on an apt door. I think the front Morton St entrance must be used. It's been a long time since I was there but IIRC the ground level is for cars and the second level has doors but there is no way to get to the door from this recessed space.

And it's just my personal bias, plus I'm not sure how much it matters, but I don't see why CR/LS would traverse the gravel lot when they have the short, paved alley to Morton and then the Morton sidewalk to reach 5N. Of course I doubt he was rational at that point, but a LOHUD map did indicate this as the route once.

 

[Btown]

Btown, thank you. A few thoughts about the path. In the version where they go into the recessed area of 10th and College Village (from the paved alley where they're recorded), I don't think it is possible to knock on an apt door. I think the front Morton St entrance must be used. It's been a long time since I was there but IIRC the ground level is for cars and the second level has doors but there is no way to get to the door from this recessed space.

This is true. The lower level is only parking. The main and side doors at that level lead to the apartments.

I just walked over there, and currently they do have a camera in each car bay, and the entry side doors from the garage area currently have badge readers. I don't recall the cameras being in place when I took pictures, or I would have posted images of them. I never checked the doors at that time, so I don't know about that.

And it's just my personal bias, plus I'm not sure how much it matters, but I don't see why CR/LS would traverse the gravel lot when they have the short, paved alley to Morton and then the Morton sidewalk to reach 5N. Of course I doubt he was rational at that point, but a LOHUD map did indicate this as the route once.

I agree. Much of the Northbound alley was covered with gravel North of 10th & College, but the Westbound alley alongside 10th & College Village had a nice clear paved road to Morton.

 

[Jacobite]

And, the behaviour of her boyfriend is the most strange of all. The love of his life goes missing and he quickly splits Brown with his father instead of waiting for her return. Most true loves would have stood by her parents. Not this guy. He has plenty to say on the air about technology. But nothing about Lauren.
She was just 17 when she started dating him. Three years of drug secrets according to his mom. He's not such a great person if he was getting high with a 17 year old when he was the adult. This does not sound like love to me.

Perhaps the Bloomington legend about a fraternity conspiracy that involves him as well is true.

 

[Chuz Life]

I've installed them commercially too.
Most of them don't cover every entrance and exit.
For example the back door by the handrail...

(image snipped)

While I would have put an exterior camera there (by that door) - that doesn't mean there's not one on the interior facing the door... Like the one shown in your image of the 'broken light' and stairs at the North East Corner of College Apts. (it's more interior than exterior).

We just don't know.

 

[Chuz Life]

If Lauren and Corey walked this paved alley to Morton before turning north on the sidewalk to 5N (to avoid walking barefoot on the gravel) as some have suggested... This camera should have caught that activity and it would have been a minute or two later than the camera at the NW corner of College Apts. which BPD claims was the last to see the two of them at 2:51 am.

 

[Dixie811]

ChuzLife mentioned earlier that the fact that Lauren was barefoot, walking on pavement in the dark could have been good enough reason for CR to be carrying her.

I don't disagree with you (possibility of stepping on broken glass, stubbing toe, etc.) and I guess it is possible that could be a partial reason for CR to be carrying Lauren, in addition to the reason that she was super intoxicated. (We often question whether she was even capable of walking on her own at that point).

But I thought about it and in my opinion, if CR were carrying Lauren simply because one or both of them were worried about her hurting/cutting her feet, then she would have been carried piggy-back style. Would have been much more comfortable than slumped over his shoulder and having that "blood rushing to your head" feeling and having his shoulder digging into her abdomen. (I haven't allowed anyone to carry me in that manner since horsing around at about age 12 because I find it SO uncomfortable). Not to mention she wouldn't be able to see where they were going very well..

IMO (& this is really pure speculation) the particular way in which CR was carrying Lauren (thrown over the shoulder; as recounted by the PI's in the 1st anniversary Lohud video) suggests she was unable to walk herself or hold herself up on his back.. perhaps semi-conscious or unconscious. I just can't imagine why, if she was able to hold on, he wouldn't have carried her piggy back instead.

But that's just me.

 

[Chuz Life]

ChuzLife mentioned earlier that the fact that Lauren was barefoot, walking on pavement in the dark could have been good enough reason for CR to be carrying her.

I don't disagree with you (possibility of stepping on broken glass, stubbing toe, etc.) and I guess it is possible that could be a partial reason for CR to be carrying Lauren, in addition to the reason that she was super intoxicated. (We often question whether she was even capable of walking on her own at that point).

But I thought about it and in my opinion, if CR were carrying Lauren simply because one or both of them were worried about her hurting/cutting her feet, then she would have been carried piggy-back style. Would have been much more comfortable than slumped over his shoulder and having that "blood rushing to your head" feeling and having his shoulder digging into her abdomen. (I haven't allowed anyone to carry me in that manner since horsing around at about age 12 because I find it SO uncomfortable). Not to mention she wouldn't be able to see where they were going very well..

IMO (& this is really pure speculation) the particular way in which CR was carrying Lauren (thrown over the shoulder; as recounted by the PI's in the 1st anniversary Lohud video) suggests she was unable to walk herself or hold herself up on his back.. perhaps semi-conscious or unconscious. I just can't imagine why, if she was able to hold on, he wouldn't have carried her piggy back instead.

But that's just me.

Piggy Back Style would require more effort on Lauren's part than she might have been capable of.

Also, when they say Corey carried her "slumped over his shoulder" I don't think they mean it in the way you illustrated.

I'll see if I can find a picture of the way I seen it described.

I think it was more like this:

 

[Dixie811]

Piggy Back Style would require more effort on Lauren's part than she might have been capable of.

Also, when they say Corey carried her "slumped over his shoulder" I don't think they mean it in the way you illustrated.

I'll see if I can find a picture of the way I seen it described.

I think it was more like this:

You're right, I was definitely picturing it differently. If this is verified info, then a big oops on my part!! :blushing:

But yes I agree that piggy back would be more than Lauren could have handled at that point, which supports claims that she was in poor condition.

 

[Chuz Life]

You're right, I was definitely picturing it differently. If this is verified info, then a big oops on my part!! :blushing:

But yes I agree that piggy back would be more than Lauren could have handled at that point, which supports claims that she was in poor condition.

The pictures I shared were basically the way I understood the technique as described by the PI's who saw the tapes.

Both carry techniques prove against the claim that Lauren was helping Corey get to 5N.

The fact that he carried her at all is proof that it was the other way around.

 

[Btown]

(image snipped)

While I would have put an exterior camera there (by that door) - that doesn't mean there's not one on the interior facing the door... Like the one shown in your image of the 'broken light' and stairs at the North East Corner of College Apts. (it's more interior than exterior).

We just don't know.

Quite right. We don't know.

 

[Btown]

If Lauren and Corey walked this paved alley to Morton before turning north on the sidewalk to 5N (to avoid walking barefoot on the gravel) as some have suggested... This camera should have caught that activity and it would have been a minute or two later than the camera at the NW corner of College Apts. which BPD claims was the last to see the two of them at 2:51 am.

Quite right.

Although, LE is not required to tell the truth.
In fact they frequently hold back information for a variety of reasons.

 

[doubtingthomas]

The pictures I shared were basically the way I understood the technique as described by the PI's who saw the tapes.

Both carry techniques prove against the claim that Lauren was helping Corey get to 5N.

The fact that he carried her at all is proof that it was the other way around.

If CR was carring her this way he would definitely know if she was breathing. She would be breathing in his ear. I can see the scenario where she has expired while he is carring her to 5N. He puts her down by the dumpster to go get help.(hense the area the dogs last pick up her scent). MB is not home because he is at JR's. They get together to plan how they are going to handle this. Calls are made with no answers. They find someone whose car is parked out by the dumpster or across the street to take her away. Now they have time to put their stories together. CR is up pretty early for some one that has been drinking all night, got punched in the face, threw up and then went to bed. My bet would be none of them went to bed till they knew she was gone. Just my opinion.

 

[Chuz Life]

If CR was carring her this way he would definitely know if she was breathing. She would be breathing in his ear. I can see the scenario where she has expired while he is carring her to 5N. He puts her down by the dumpster to go get help.(hense the area the dogs last pick up her scent). MB is not home because he is at JR's. They get together to plan how they are going to handle this. Calls are made with no answers. They find someone whose car is parked out by the dumpster or across the street to take her away. Now they have time to put their stories together. CR is up pretty early for some one that has been drinking all night, got punched in the face, threw up and then went to bed. My bet would be none of them went to bed till they knew she was gone. Just my opinion.

I don't think that Corey's vomiting necessarily came about from too much drinking.

How many crime scenes have we all read about where someone gets sick and throws up just from the stress of dealing with a dead body?

This is all why we need to know everybody who was present that night at 5N.

There were supposed visitors from Michigan

Were their cars searched?

For all we know, one or more of those guys left for Michigan that night and took Lauren's body with them.

 

[akh]

For all we know, one or more of those guys left for Michigan that night and took Lauren's body with them.

The problem with that scenario is connecting why someone who has done absolutely nothing wrong would want to make themselves a part of a crime/murder/manslaughter/etc.. Not just seeing something and vowing to never speak of it, but to actually become a participant and transport the body to a hiding place?

To even allow their vehicle to be used?

Sure it's possible... but is it plausible?

It only becomes plausible IMHO if they can be connected to the crime beforehand someway. And even with that, if it was a matter of drug supplying that would still be a leap to take on a larger role in the crime rather than just leave.

 

[Dixie811]

The problem with that scenario is connecting why someone who has done absolutely nothing wrong would want to make themselves a part of a crime/murder/manslaughter/etc.. Not just seeing something and vowing to never speak of it, but to actually become a participant and transport the body to a hiding place?

To even allow their vehicle to be used?

Sure it's possible... but is it plausible?

It only becomes plausible IMHO if they can be connected to the crime beforehand someway. And even with that, if it was a matter of drug supplying that would still be a leap to take on a larger role in the crime rather than just leave.

Definitely inclined to agree with you.

 

[Chuz Life]

I don't think that Corey's vomiting necessarily came about from too much drinking.

How many crime scenes have we all read about where someone gets sick and throws up just from the stress of dealing with a dead body?

This is all why we need to know everybody who was present that night at 5N.

There were supposed visitors from Michigan

Were their cars searched?

For all we know, one or more of those guys left for Michigan that night and took Lauren's body with them.

The problem with that scenario is connecting why someone who has done absolutely nothing wrong would want to make themselves a part of a crime/murder/manslaughter/etc.. Not just seeing something and vowing to never speak of it, but to actually become a participant and transport the body to a hiding place?

To even allow their vehicle to be used?

Sure it's possible... but is it plausible?

It only becomes plausible IMHO if they can be connected to the crime beforehand someway. And even with that, if it was a matter of drug supplying that would still be a leap to take on a larger role in the crime rather than just leave.

In my view, no-one can be ruled out until they can be ruled out through investigative means.

If they were present at 5N that night, they are a person of interest and they should remain so until they have been properly vetted and ruled out by law enforcement as a possible suspect.

I completely agree that it's a stretch to think someone not related to Lauren's death (?) might take the chance to be caught with her body.

However, we don't know that they were not related to Lauren's death and disappearance yet.

There are proper police procedures than should have been followed to find that out.

I can name many reasons for how those visitors could have or might have been directly involved Lauren's fate.

It ranges from them being the 'drug suppliers' to them being involved in a gang rape and or human trafficking.

I'm not one to rule any of that out without an investigation.