I think this is very plausible, but I still think LS would have to actually become deceased in the presence of anyone involved. I would change it slightly to CR placing her there because she was becoming difficult to manage and going to get MB, who then called JR, and would also explain the calls between the two. Perhaps they then argued about calling for help and then, during this exchange, is when it became too late for LS.
IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #31
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I think this is very plausible, but I still think LS would have to actually become deceased in the presence of anyone involved. I would change it slightly to CR placing her there because she was becoming difficult to manage and going to get MB, who then called JR, and would also explain the calls between the two. Perhaps they then argued about calling for help and then, during this exchange, is when it became too late for LS.
Isn't it possible that it was a combination of factors - smacking her head, drinking, and any possible drugs? (plus her health factors)
I agree on JW. I get why some are critical of him - he is the bf and they are typically high on the list of suspects. I would be surprised to find out that he was that possessive given that from what I understand, most controlling partners try to isolate their partner and LS seemed to be well-connected and very social. On the other hand, they can also be very charming so who knows. I would just like to see some sort of past behavior indicating he was possessive. That does not take away from his parents' poor taste in how they depicted LS recently though and I 100% do not think that was okay, especially because the Spierers were relatively supportive of JW, at least in the beginning.
As for the phone theory... I agree with you on this front too. Too many things that need to happen for that to occur, imo. I do think it would be more believable had she been looking for it earlier in the night. As the night progressed, I think her phone would become less important to her. I do agree with other parts of it though that are less dependent on the phone -- I would not be surprised if hitting her head played a major part in the final outcome.
I have been thinking a lot about this. I don't think that people think (at least, I don't) that the 5N boys have not talked, period, but rather that they just have not been forthcoming with all of the information pertaining to that night's events. I personally do think they may have lied or been misleading with at least some information, but it is true that there is always the possibility that they were at least truthful about LS leaving on her own accord. Even if they are innocent, I would think they might be at least misleading with some of the information to paint themselves in the best light possible (which still isn't that great lol). LE and the Spierers have both expressed frustration with people not being as forthcoming as they would like, which is why I continue to question their stories (not to mention how they seemingly appear to change stories, although it seems you have interpreted the changing stories differently, which is fine, we can agree to disagree there, respectfully).
Personally, I think people will be skeptical until the case is solved because I can see no other way to convince anyone entirely that the 5N boys had nothing to do with it unless and until a body is found and investigators have some idea of what really happened. That is unfortunate if they truly are innocent of what ultimately happened to LS, of course, but that is my best guess at how they will be continued to be perceived.
I don't think JW has been cleared? I don't think anyone has been? Some posters might think he is less likely of a suspect, myself included, but I know I am at least open to the idea that he could be involved, regardless of what I may think at this point in time (which is always subject to change based on information made available to the public). I do think plenty of people out there do seriously question him though simply because he is the boyfriend, so even though he might be less suspicious to some, I'm sure he is still very high on the list for others.
JW's alibi is probably not solid, admittedly, simply because he claims to be sleeping and unless he was seeing other people, it is probably unlikely to be rock solid.
That is just my own opinion.
I totally agree about JW's parents. I'm sure Lauren's disappearance must have been stressful for them as well, but what they said was unnecessary and cruel. I also think that LE must have looked into JW fairly thoroughly, considering he was Lauren's longterm boyfriend. Not to say that I think he should be completely eliminated as a suspect, but I have a feeling that if there was evidence against him or his alibi didn't hold up LE would have gone after him and we would have heard about it
Ixchel13
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yeah, JW's parents give us a clue at how controlling and manipulative he is--he controls them! They imply that Jesse was always having to take care of Lauren and that she was a handful for him. Really? How about he and Lauren both get a PI, but he tells his parents that he got it trying to make sure Lauren got home, etc. Every time they wanted him to go somewhere or do something he didn't want to do, or did something they didn't want him to do--did he try to blame as much on Lauren as he could? He wanted to watch the game with the boys, but also wanted Lauren to stay home. Also, I'm not even buying that she told JW she was going to bed so she could be with CR. Maybe she just wanted to go out.
How do you know he controls his parents? As far as I know there is no information about his relationship with his parents. We don't know what he has told them, so I'm not sure how you're drawing that conclusion. He and lauren had dated for several years, I'm sure his parents had their own relationship with her, independent of JW. I have no idea why they said what they did, it was completely out of line and offensive but I'm confused as to how you know so much about his relationship with his parents?
"Every time they wanted him to go somewhere or do something he didn't want to do, or did something they didn't want him to do--did he try to blame as much on Lauren as he could" I'm not clear on what you're saying. Are you suggesting that if JW's parents wanted him to do something (ie go out to dinner with them) he would say no and blame lauren? I don't understand how you could know that or what the relevance is to the case.
Did I miss an article about JW's relationship with his parents other than the articles on their cruel statement about Lauren? I've been following this case pretty closely but I don't remember reading anything about that.
Also FWIW, I don't think that it has ever been said that JW "also wanted Lauren to stay home", I think all that has been said is that he claims that she told him she was staying home. I haven't read anything about him telling or wanting her to stay home, let me know if you've read otherwise, totally possible I missed that
While those things could be true, I am not also not entirely sure what you are drawing your conclusions from?
I actually drew the opposite conclusion - that his parents were the ones trying to control the situation, and doing a poor job of it by making them collectively (parents + JW, even though he didn't actually say anything) look bad for their statements regarding LS.
I do not think that the article really depicts anyone as controlling or possessive as much as JW's parents lashing out and saying things that never should have been said.
I may be naive but I really think a lot of JW's initial stories should be readily verifiable. I think I read they were texting when she said she was staying in? I'm sure they went through her texts and would be able to verify what she said to him.
I am not as sure about whether or not they would have enough to seize JW's phone and text messages, but I would hope so. I've also wondered if JW started making any late night phone calls versus texting because it would be difficult to gauge what information was provided to him over a phone call versus a text, or whether whatever he was texting that night seemed to support that he was staying in himself, watching the game, going to bed, etc.
I have a question for anyone who has had a possessive boyfriend (or has a friend that has had a possessive BF). Did your parents (or their parents if it was your friend's BF) see the possessive boyfriend as possessive all along or did they see him as simply extra attentive and really caring?
Ixchel13,
I have to admit I still get lost following your phone theory. The two points that really throw me is why someone would secretly take it back to Kilroy's. That just seems an unnecessary risk and open ended if they think it would somehow coverup something. It seems like they'd be better off just making the phone disappear too. (By open ended I mean besides getting caught on the street by a witness or camera when they should be at home, let alone seen tossing it into Kilroy's, you'd have to worry about fingerprints and trace evidence and things you aren't sure of about the phone itself that could trace back to you. And you'd have to worry all these loose ends could negate whatever story you're trying to create or obscure (whatever the case may be)).
The other point is, even if everything is about looking for the phone, why there has to be something nefarious about it missing. To me, a phone lost at a bar is just a normal occurrence that happens many, many times. So why couldn't she have lost the phone at the bar, not know where she lost it, and just be looking for it because she herself lost it somewhere?
I just think there is a disconnect between what I'm understanding and why you seem so fixated on the phone.
What we've been told about the phone 'officially' in the narrative seems 100% normal to the point it makes it hard for me to understand what it is that seems to be bothering you about it. None of this isn't to say all angles are worthy of discussion, it's just that you seem fairly adamant that the phone is a key piece in a coverup and I'm having trouble making that leap with you.
I have to admit I still get lost following your phone theory. The two points that really throw me is why someone would secretly take it back to Kilroy's. That just seems an unnecessary risk and open ended if they think it would somehow coverup something. It seems like they'd be better off just making the phone disappear too. (By open ended I mean besides getting caught on the street by a witness or camera when they should be at home, let alone seen tossing it into Kilroy's, you'd have to worry about fingerprints and trace evidence and things you aren't sure of about the phone itself that could trace back to you. And you'd have to worry all these loose ends could negate whatever story you're trying to create or obscure (whatever the case may be)).
The other point is, even if everything is about looking for the phone, why there has to be something nefarious about it missing. To me, a phone lost at a bar is just a normal occurrence that happens many, many times. So why couldn't she have lost the phone at the bar, not know where she lost it, and just be looking for it because she herself lost it somewhere?
I just think there is a disconnect between what I'm understanding and why you seem so fixated on the phone.
What we've been told about the phone 'officially' in the narrative seems 100% normal to the point it makes it hard for me to understand what it is that seems to be bothering you about it. None of this isn't to say all angles are worthy of discussion, it's just that you seem fairly adamant that the phone is a key piece in a coverup and I'm having trouble making that leap with you.
You said Rob Spierer told you the drug OD theory was long ago disproven. So you are the source I think most are looking to on that info and trying to understand it and how it could possibly be disproven, or what else could be meant by that comment.
I had a fairly possessive boyfriend during my freshman year in college (I didn't stick around long enough to find out if 'fairly possessive' would escalate to more possessive) and my family knew. I never told them but they noticed that he was clingy and a few other signs and put the pieces together. I'm trying not to be biased in terms of JW, but that experience made me really doubt that family would be able not to notice that kind of behavior. Especially if LS spoke to her mom once a day, IMO if JW was possessive the spierers would have been well aware
Not a smoking gun that clears anyone. Girls who knew Lauren just as well as Jesse said she did not use drugs and that Lauren would never get herself this messed up in public. After all, Lauren was the star as in center of attention at just about any party or gathering. It was important to make a good impression. She was not a drug user.
Around the same time, newspapers quoted Rob as saying he thought someone spiked her drink with the date rape drug.
Ixchel13
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^^my post in blue^^
Yes, I remember those quotes from Rob Spierer too. So do you interpret him saying that she was not a drug user to mean the same thing as 'she could not have overdosed' or 'the overdose theory has been disproven'? Could she not have overdosed if someone slipped something in her drink or gave her something when she was intoxicated that she would not normally have taken? The Spierers have also publicly questioned whether Lauren ever left 5 N. So I wonder what they think could have happened there...
I think we're just trying to clarify what part Rob Spierer actually said and what is your interpretation.
Thanks Jacobite!
Edited to add, because I do think this is worth repeating given the Wolffs' comments:
I think it's possible that she was drugged, based on her symptoms and the fact that Corey took her away from a public place when she was totally incapacitated. Like a previous poster though, I don't really see much of a difference between having something slipped something in her drink and someone giving her drugs (or too much alcohol) when she was intoxicated.
Ixchel13
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Most of the AEPI girlfriends dabble with drugs. I have personal knowledge of this. That really isn't the question here, whether Lauren ever tried drugs.
Corey took her away from a public place, but remember, he also took her away from his apt, a private place, because he wanted a few more drinks.
If he wanted to rufie Lauren, he had the perfect opportunity there, alone
with Lauren. Also, if they were going to hook up, why not then? Or, why must we assume that anything was going to happen that night between them? Maybe they were having fun, getting to know each other.
To me, I don't see Corey as a date rapist. He had to know the AEPIs would
beat him to near death for that. It seems almost likely they were both rufied.
If rufies were administered that is. Charge cards, purses and expensive clothing, cash, smart phones, expensive shoes, and jewelry are just some of the items regularly stolen from these students at these downtown bars.
They just don't realize that they are not safe at these bars, it's only an illusion. The idea that Kilroy's is advertising for 18 year old servers should
give us a clue. They want "dummies", why else would an establishment that has so much money want minors working there? It isn't a strip club where
they need fresh "meat" nor do their student customers lack for young female
companionship. Seems like they are trying to rid themselves of the image of jaded creepy employees that sanction that kind of jacknapery.
He wasn't alone with her then. They were with friends. They weren't alone until they left Kilroy's
Can anyone help me with a link (Abbey you are great with links) or clarify that this is a rumor?
I remember hearing about Lauren and David Rohn possibly taking prescription pills that night-- and in fact the name of the specific pill is slipping my mind right now.
Can someone help me out here? Just want to know where that information came from or if it is complete rumor.
TIA
I remember hearing about Lauren and David Rohn possibly taking prescription pills that night-- and in fact the name of the specific pill is slipping my mind right now.
Can someone help me out here? Just want to know where that information came from or if it is complete rumor.
TIA
Ixchel13
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For example, some years ago I worked at one of these downtown dens of iniquity. One night, one of the cooks said he needed to leave but would be right back and just took off. When he came back, he had purchased an expensive
home system that controlled the lights, music, so you could time them, turn them on and off with a remote and I think there was also the music player that corresponded with it. I thought, what a weirdo, why did he leave to go buy that? A month later, the police came and arrested him for credit card theft.
What happened, was one of the waitresses held someone's charge card to run a tab, gave him the card, he ran out and bought that system, and came right back with the card. While I was still there, another waitress did the same thing, entertained a client while her boyfriend went on a spending spree with the guy's card. She was also caught. Phones and keys may pile up at the register, but anything of value is almost never returned, like expensive sunglasses for example, or nice gloves and scarves. I wish these students really knew how reviled they are by these type of employees. The women customers are regularly called *advertiser censored*, *advertiser censored*, rich *****es, sororiwhores,
when all they are doing is buying a drink for god's sake.
OT I know, but just trying to shape in people's minds the kind of environment Lauren and Corey were in, and at closing time. Being rufied with intent of robbery would def not be an unlikely happenstance. Lauren was wearing a David Yurman ring. Has anyone ever priced something like that?
More expensive than any of these bar employees could afford.
home system that controlled the lights, music, so you could time them, turn them on and off with a remote and I think there was also the music player that corresponded with it. I thought, what a weirdo, why did he leave to go buy that? A month later, the police came and arrested him for credit card theft.
What happened, was one of the waitresses held someone's charge card to run a tab, gave him the card, he ran out and bought that system, and came right back with the card. While I was still there, another waitress did the same thing, entertained a client while her boyfriend went on a spending spree with the guy's card. She was also caught. Phones and keys may pile up at the register, but anything of value is almost never returned, like expensive sunglasses for example, or nice gloves and scarves. I wish these students really knew how reviled they are by these type of employees. The women customers are regularly called *advertiser censored*, *advertiser censored*, rich *****es, sororiwhores,
when all they are doing is buying a drink for god's sake.
OT I know, but just trying to shape in people's minds the kind of environment Lauren and Corey were in, and at closing time. Being rufied with intent of robbery would def not be an unlikely happenstance. Lauren was wearing a David Yurman ring. Has anyone ever priced something like that?
More expensive than any of these bar employees could afford.
Ixchel13
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technicality. She was there with him, If his object was merely, excuse any disrespect, to have sex with Lauren, why would he want them to leave and
go to Kilroy's?
He had her there at his apt., but wanted more drinks. It's been a long time
since I've been in the young dating world, but usually, give a guy who even thinks he has a chance for sex the choice between a couple of drinks or sex, and if I remember correctly, they always choose sex, even if there's only a chance it will happen. Most guys, if I remember correctly, wouldn't take you back out, especially around your friends and your boyfriend's friends, who then would most likely try to dissuade you from that . If sex were that important, I don't think he would have left to get more drinks.
Whatever, I have stated my opinion and others, theirs. Let's don't get a time out by arguing.
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