IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32

[akh]

I don't know where the talk of Special K originated (I thought it was Klonopin they allegedly snorted?) but if there is any truth to it, learning that fact would virtually remove 99.9999% of any doubt .

It was random forum speculation that maybe it was a different "K" drug verus the Klonopin we've heard about. Absolutely no source claiming it at all.

And while we're on the subject... How valid is it that Klonopin was mentioned by JR? Did the PI's say that or what is the source of it? Or is it just itself a rumor that has become pseudo fact?

 

[AbbeyR]

It was random forum speculation that maybe it was a different "K" drug verus the Klonopin we've heard about. Absolutely no source claiming it at all.

And while we're on the subject... How valid is it that Klonopin was mentioned by JR? Did the PI's say that or what is the source of it? Or is it just itself a rumor that has become pseudo fact?

Rosenbaum told investigators that either Spierer or Rohn told him they’d crushed up and snorted klonopin, a drug used for seizures and panic attacks, beforehand and that he believed they’d also taken cocaine. Spierer’s family and investigators said they have no information that she consumed cocaine.

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?gcheck=1

I'm not surprised that JR is pointing the finger at Lauren doing drugs voluntarily with someone else. It could be true, but he also said she didn't drink at his place, and witnesses say otherwise.

I thought Special K was more of a drug done in the club scene. I can't really see people taking it and heading to Kilroy's. I wasn't aware that it was used as a date rape drug though...

I still think it's interesting that AaronWg and others on PT claimed to know what Lauren took that night too, down to the mg (ftr, they didn't mention Klonopin). They must have gotten that info from somewhere.

ETA: Adding to Keylime and Ixchel's observations, the same article states:

Drugs were so prevalent in that environment that Dietl, the private investigator, said he can’t believe their use alone would be reason enough for Spierer’s friends to possibly cover something up.

“Every kid’s buying pot, cocaine, drinking, pills,” he said. “I mean, it’s all over the place. So that really can’t be the motive behind it.”

 

[imkeylime]

http://www.lohud.com/article/201206...-after-night-heavy-drinking-drug-use?gcheck=1

I'm not surprised that JR is pointing the finger at Lauren doing drugs voluntarily with someone else. It could be true, but he also said she didn't drink at his place, and witnesses say otherwise.

I thought Special K was more of a drug done in the club scene. I can't really see people taking it and heading to Kilroy's. I wasn't aware that it was used as a date rape drug though...

I still think it's interesting that AaronWg and others on PT claimed to know what Lauren took that night too, down to the mg (ftr, they didn't mention Klonopin). They must have gotten that info from somewhere.

JR claims that either DR or LS told him they did klonopin, which could be to throw off the scent, as suggested. I could see that. And you're right, he did claim that the alcohol had run dry. I don't see how what he says can be trusted.

IDK a lot about ketamine, except for the facts that kids here (HS, sadly) have gotten really messed up doing it. And it can be used for date rape, which is really scary, IMO, considering that the delivery system is so flexible. It can even be smoked, according to one source I read. Or snorted. Or put in a drink.

If a date-rape drug was involved, it wouldn't have to be this one, of course. I just thought the side effects matched up, but that would probably be with any of the date rape drugs.

I guess a question to consider is whether LS would have gotten in the state she did with klonopin and alcohol or klonopin, alcohol, and coke (or substitute xanax for klonopin?). I suppose the answer is yes, depending on the quantity. It does seem like a date-rape drug on top of that could have killed her. JMO.

 

[AbbeyR]

IDK a lot about ketamine, except for the facts that kids here (HS, sadly) have gotten really messed up doing it. And it can be used for date rape, which is really scary, IMO, considering that the delivery system is so flexible. It can even be smoked, according to one source I read. Or snorted. Or put in a drink.

If a date-rape drug was involved, it wouldn't have to be this one, of course. I just thought the side effects matched up, but that would probably be with any of the date rape drugs.

Yes, it is scary. Sadly, there seem to be a lot of options for potential date rape drugs (and we shouldn't forget that the most popular is alcohol!)

 

[Ixchel13]

Yes, it is scary. Sadly, there seem to be a lot of options for potential date rape drugs (and we shouldn't forget that the most popular is alcohol!)

I think it probably was klonopin. Mixed with alcohol, it would be effective as a date rape drug as would Xanax. But, I don't really think her friends drugged her, or even CR. Doing another "bump" of klonopin, after she did some with DR, would be more than enough to black her out. According to these kids around me, I work with college kids 300 days a year, snorting it gives them a more intense high, (obviously), and then lasts, whereas when they wait for it to digest it simply works the way it should, although just taking the pills plus alcohol will still black them out.

students are taking charge, there's a small contingent of people hanging around the people who have been doing it starting to speak up among their peers. Too many close and then tragically not-so-close calls and they're starting to realize this.

The "Culture of Care" program that originated after LS disappeared to help stop the date raping, etc around the bars has now separated from IU (the money) and now watch it disintegrate, it was all a bunch of phony baloney to begin with, knew it the second Kilroy's said they cared. lolololol lulz.

 

[akh]

If CR supplied LS with a date rape drug wouldn't it be likely that is something he's done to others and they would've came forward to LE with their concerns/suspicions? Not that we would know about their coming forward but isn't that typically what happens in that type of case?

 

[holly18]

If CR supplied LS with a date rape drug wouldn't it be likely that is something he's done to others and they would've came forward to LE with their concerns/suspicions? Not that we would know about their coming forward but isn't that typically what happens in that type of case?

Not necessarily, although I wouldn't be surprised if more people had come forward if CR had done it before (or in the first place), unfortunately a lot of the time people who are victims of sexual assault don't come forward, even after their attacker has been accused/suspected in another case. Also, FWIW, keep in mind that if CR had done this before, whoever he did it to might also have been drunk before/after being dosed, and may have just assumed that they drank too much and blacked out. They might not even know what happened.

Add to that the fact that Lauren disappeared, and people might not be coming forward because they don't want to get involved in the case and/or are afraid.

When I was a freshman in college several boys in my year were accused of drugging and raping a girl. The school more or less covered it up, she transferred and the boys graduated four years later. After she came forward (right after it happened) there were several other girls who said that they had had bad encounters with the guys accused (ranging from being raped to suspecting they had been roofied to the guys just being really aggressive)- it became common knowledge around campus, but none of the girls ever "came forward" in terms of speaking to someone in authority about it. We were all freshman at the time, and there was underage drinking involved. Some of the reasoning for not coming forward that I heard was because people didn't want to admit they'd been drinking or doing anything else illegal, or that they'd seen what happened to the other girl and had no faith in the administration or police to actually do anything, and because a lot of the girls who had experienced similar things with these boys had written it off at the time as "I didn't realize I'd had enough to drink to blackout, but I guess I did", once they found out what had happened with the girl who did come forward, they realized they had probably been drugged as well, but had no way to be sure.

Sorry for the essay! Basically I wouldn't be surprised if people hadn't come forward (if CR did drug Lauren, and if he had done it before) for a variety of reasons.

 

[AbbeyR]

If CR supplied LS with a date rape drug wouldn't it be likely that is something he's done to others and they would've came forward to LE with their concerns/suspicions? Not that we would know about their coming forward but isn't that typically what happens in that type of case?

Who knows?

It's a good question though. I wonder:

- Was CR in the habit of buying drinks and/or drugs for others? Bringing home seriously intoxicated girls?
- Have others had the experience of him acting 'aggressively' and 'inappropriately' (as described by the witnesses) towards them? Of him swearing at or fighting others who get in the way of his plans?
- Have any other women who partied with the POI or their out of town guests ever been given drugs with or without their consent, experienced pushy/ unwanted/ violent behavior, or woken up with no memory of what happened the night before?
- Have any other girls been booted out the door alone at 4 am or given a 'sobriety' test by JR?
- Have any friends/ acquaintances of the POI witnessed them buying or talking about the drugs mentioned above?

I hope that if anyone has any information or any experiences like this that they have already gone to LE with this information.

Remember, anything small can be big! Tips:

helpfindlauren@gmail.com

Bloomington Police Department Tipline 812.339.4477

Find Lauren PO Box 1226 Bloomington, IN 47402 ​

 

[Dixie811]

There are several people who were present during key points of the night/morning: JR, CR, MB, any house guests that JR may have had (whether they were asleep or out of the apt at the time Lauren was there, they were still staying in the apt that weekend and may have seen/heard things we would kill to know), and even DB, ZO...

All of these people had contact with Lauren that night-- and all of these people have friends. I don't think that any of these young men would say to a friend "hey I was responsible for Lauren's disappearance, it was me!!" but I imagine several of them would have at some point given at least a few of their close friends a run-down of what happened while he was with Lauren that night (may or may not be entirely true). Probably even to friends who do not attend IU-- friends from high school/hometown. This adds up to a lot of people who may have heard different accounts of what happened that night.

I wish that anyone who received a version of events of that night/morning would come forward and give a detailed statement of what he or she was told to the police, or mail in a detailed anonymous statement to the Spierer's. While the story a friend was told may seem to match up with what is known to the public, LE knows many small details of that night/morning that the public does not. Some small detail that an involved party told a friend which does not match up to the story told to LE or is omitted from the story told LE could piece together to mean something big!


To anyone reading here who has any knowledge of what may have happened that night, even if it is second or third hand knowledge--
Don't assume that LE and the Spierer's know everything! The Spierer's would be so appreciative of anything you would be willing to share with them, even if it turns out to be something they are already aware of. Do the right thing and take the time to write down what you have heard and send it in. If it turns out to be an inaccurate rumor, oh well. Better to check it out and make sure.

 

[Ros]

"I don't recall" is a valid and accepted answer as testimony whether on the stand or seated around a table at a deposition. Even if nobody believes it 100% you can't get inside someone's mind and argue they do recall something when they say they don't. You can argue how can you remember X and not Y and try and discredit the answer but it's not like the proceedings can suddenly make him answer truthfully if he is lying and sticking to it, or remember what he doesn't remember if he's telling the truth.

The subject of intentional forgetfulness makes me think of President Nixon's advice to person's involved in the Watergate conspiracy. By saying "I can't recall" or "I don't remember" etc. one can avoid giving true information without giving false information. Since CR was seen getting punched, he's got an excuse for using that approach.

CR's later saying that those were his lawyer's words, not his own, opens the way for him to "suddenly recall" the events of that night if it is advantageous for him to do so.

http://dictionaryblog.cambridge.org/2013/01/07/words-of-watergate/

 

[AbbeyR]

I really hate posting (and even thinking about) this topic.... (I'm sorry if this kind of speculation is hard to read for some ) , but I came across this story this morning, and it made me think of some of the conversations here about where Lauren could have been hidden. In some ways it seems impossible that someone could have hidden her and she would not have been found by now. But then I read a story like this and wonder if she could be somewhere close by.

This poor woman went missing in 2011, and was just discovered in a drain pipe (or valve basin, whatever that is), a few yards from her house.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Womans-Body-Found-in-Drain-Pipe-248675541.html

See also the photos posted here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10312149&postcount=43"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased IL - Latasha Nevitt, 30, Chicago, 11 Oct 2011[/ame]
_

Could searchers have missed places like this? I just really hope the nearby construction sites, drainage systems, etc. were considered and thoroughly searched in days following Lauren's disappearance and that LE continues to search and search again...

Where is Lauren???

 

[imkeylime]

I really hate posting (and even thinking about) this topic.... (I'm sorry if this kind of speculation is hard to read for some ) , but I came across this story this morning, and it made me think of some of the conversations here about where Lauren could have been hidden. In some ways it seems impossible that someone could have hidden her and she would not have been found by now. But then I read a story like this and wonder if she could be somewhere close by.

This poor woman went missing in 2011, and was just discovered in a drain pipe (or valve basin, whatever that is), a few yards from her house.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Womans-Body-Found-in-Drain-Pipe-248675541.html

See also the photos posted here: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased IL - Latasha Nevitt, 30, Chicago, 11 Oct 2011
_

Could searchers have missed places like this? I just really hope the nearby construction sites, drainage systems, etc. were considered and thoroughly searched in days following Lauren's disappearance and that LE continues to search and search again...

Where is Lauren???

It's been said before (and by me), but I think Lauren's small size and the abundance of construction in Bloomington that year are a bad combination. I remember driving in West Bloomfield (JR's hometown) later that summer and freaking out at all the construction going on there. It wasn't that I imagined someone dumping her in Michigan. It's just that the construction zones had this apocalyptic feel to them ... I personally think it would be hard to search through that type of setting in any town. And once cement is laid ... chills.

 

[Kadence]

"Rosenbaum told investigators that either Spierer or Rohn told him they’d crushed up and snorted klonopin, a drug used for seizures and panic attacks, beforehand and that he believed they’d also taken cocaine. Spierer’s family and investigators said they have no information that she consumed cocaine."

Although I've probably read this sentence numerous times, something just occurred to me, does this mean that the Spierers and investigators have confirmed the klonopin snorting? I'm assuming via DR?

http://www.lohud.com/article/2012060...g-use?gcheck=1

 

[Kadence]

I really hate posting (and even thinking about) this topic.... (I'm sorry if this kind of speculation is hard to read for some ) , but I came across this story this morning, and it made me think of some of the conversations here about where Lauren could have been hidden. In some ways it seems impossible that someone could have hidden her and she would not have been found by now. But then I read a story like this and wonder if she could be somewhere close by.

This poor woman went missing in 2011, and was just discovered in a drain pipe (or valve basin, whatever that is), a few yards from her house.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Womans-Body-Found-in-Drain-Pipe-248675541.html

See also the photos posted here: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased IL - Latasha Nevitt, 30, Chicago, 11 Oct 2011
_

Could searchers have missed places like this? I just really hope the nearby construction sites, drainage systems, etc. were considered and thoroughly searched in days following Lauren's disappearance and that LE continues to search and search again...

Where is Lauren???

This is heartbreaking! And to know she was so close to her home

We have definitely discussed these types of places as a place where Lauren could be hidden and also hope that they were thoroughly searched after Lauren went missing. I'm wondering if they should be searched again? Maybe she was moved after an initial search? I don't know what I'm thinking, I just can't believe she hasn't been found, it's just not right

 

[sammi89]

I really hate posting (and even thinking about) this topic.... (I'm sorry if this kind of speculation is hard to read for some ) , but I came across this story this morning, and it made me think of some of the conversations here about where Lauren could have been hidden. In some ways it seems impossible that someone could have hidden her and she would not have been found by now. But then I read a story like this and wonder if she could be somewhere close by.

This poor woman went missing in 2011, and was just discovered in a drain pipe (or valve basin, whatever that is), a few yards from her house.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/Womans-Body-Found-in-Drain-Pipe-248675541.html

See also the photos posted here: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased IL - Latasha Nevitt, 30, Chicago, 11 Oct 2011
_

Could searchers have missed places like this? I just really hope the nearby construction sites, drainage systems, etc. were considered and thoroughly searched in days following Lauren's disappearance and that LE continues to search and search again...

Where is Lauren???

I think something like that is totally possible sadly. Luckily, the Spierers have the resources to spend a lot of time pressuring LE to keep active on her case and remind the public to be aware.

I'm still not 100% convinced the garbage disposal area should be completely dismissed despite the search. I've heard it is very difficult to find a body, even if you actually know it is there. If there was a serious credible tip, it sounds like it would be easy to miss her.

Someone mentioned moving her around after the fact... I've heard of that happening in other cases too. I haven't checked lately, but some of the rumors in the HB case come to mind. I would hope that this might be more difficult if it was any of the named POI because you would hope LE is keeping an eye on them, but it would still be possible.

100% agree with your last part though: searching again and again seems like the best approach. You never know what you might have missed the previous time and there's always the chance the person responsible might move her to area that he or she believes to have been cleared.

I've been keeping up with the missing plane (or trying to anyway; the stories seems to change daily lol). It's really sobering to think that so many countries could be looking for a huge plane and can't find it. LS was tiny. She could be anywhere. I just feel so bad for her family.

 

[sammi89]

"Rosenbaum told investigators that either Spierer or Rohn told him they’d crushed up and snorted klonopin, a drug used for seizures and panic attacks, beforehand and that he believed they’d also taken cocaine. Spierer’s family and investigators said they have no information that she consumed cocaine."

Although I've probably read this sentence numerous times, something just occurred to me, does this mean that the Spierers and investigators have confirmed the klonopin snorting? I'm assuming via DR?

http://www.lohud.com/article/2012060...g-use?gcheck=1

It sounds like they aren't refuting the klonopin, at least. If DR was the source, I would be surprised if he admitted one and not the other though, but that is just my own opinion.

 

[imkeylime]

It sounds like they aren't refuting the klonopin, at least. If DR was the source, I would be surprised if he admitted one and not the other though, but that is just my own opinion.

Hmmm ... what if she did do klonopin with DR but did the coke somewhere else, and JR knew it, i.e., because she did it at his place. Maybe he was trying to divert attention from where she did the coke. ???

 

[holly18]

It sounds like they aren't refuting the klonopin, at least. If DR was the source, I would be surprised if he admitted one and not the other though, but that is just my own opinion.

IA. I also tend to think that if DR admitted to using one drug, he probably would have been forthcoming about any other substances. I think the spierers have also said (or at least implied) that DR has cooperated with them and LE.

 

[AbbeyR]

Random (non POI related) update, but remember that guy who [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9280954&postcount=493"]attacked a girl who was rollerblading on the B-line [/ame]trail last year? It looks like he's been convicted

We, the jury, find the Defendant, Scott James Hedrick, GUILTY of the offense of Criminal Confinement, Class C Felony and VERDICT We the jury, find the Defendant, Scott James Hedrick, GUILTY of the offense of Battery Result In Bodily Injury, Class A Misdemeanor. The jury is pooled and consistent with the jury's verdict, the Court now enters judgment of conviction. Defendant enters an ADMISSION to the Notice of Intent To Seek Habitual Offender Status, specifically to numbers one, two, and three (via mycase.indiana.gov)

His creepy blog from 2011 has also been deleted.

Phew.. at least one creep is off the streets.

(I think? Here his current location is listed as 'bloomington parole district'?)

 

[sammi89]

Looks like there has finally been some movement:

The Spierers' request to seal evidence has officially been denied. Apparently it was too broad and didn't specify what would qualify.

http://fox59.com/2014/03/20/judge-d...ence-in-lauren-spierer-lawsuit/#axzz2wXFMiSv0

Regardless of that outcome, I hope the Spierers discover at least some valuable information soon!