IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #32

[kpeacock]

Hi all! It seems we've hit a slow spot recently and are just spinning wheels. I've been reading through the Websleuth's resource topics, and found this forum on working with LE:

Working w/Authorities - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

The thread's OP and others suggest one member of each group contact LE for direct info. Has anyone here tried this approach? Thoughts? It takes metaphorical balls, but I'm willing to try if it hasn't been done yet.

 

[holly18]

Hi all! It seems we've hit a slow spot recently and are just spinning wheels. I've been reading through the Websleuth's resource topics, and found this forum on working with LE:

Working w/Authorities - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

The thread's OP and others suggest one member of each group contact LE for direct info. Has anyone here tried this approach? Thoughts? It takes metaphorical balls, but I'm willing to try if it hasn't been done yet.

I don't know why this never occurred to me to do, but its an awesome idea. If you'd be up for contacting them I'd love to hear what they say

 

[AbbeyR]

My hopes aren't very high for LE sharing info in this case, but anything's worth a shot!

To add to kpeacock's good suggestion, here's a post I found in another thread from Nursebeeme, for times that things are slow around here...

Things to do in Cases When There's No News:


- Go back through threads and collect what you think are the top ten most important links in the case, make a list of them, and post them. These lists would be great for both those familiar with the case, as well as people new to the case.

- If there's no timeline for the case, create one and post it, or begin one that others could add to. Find the most recent timeline, update it, and post it. If an existing timeline doesn't need updating, check to see if it's been posted within the last three pages of the most recent thread, and if not, go ahead and post it again for people new to the case to read.

- Write up your own recap of the story of the case and post it. Great for people who are new to the case, plus you get to give a voice to the victim.

- Go back and collect the known facts of the case, along with their source links, and post them. If you don't have time to collect all of them, just do whatever you have time for, and ask for others to add to it.

- Write up your own theory of what happened in the case and post it. Great to get others thinking about and posting on the case, and bring attention to it.

- Find a picture of the victim that hasn't been posted for a while, and post it so there's always a face to put with the victim's name, reminding people that the victim is a real person.

- Research to see if there's an updated missing poster and post it or link to it so it can be printed and distributed.

- Find the most recent map(s) of significant locations, update them if necessary, or just post the list of links if it hasn't been posted in the last few pages. If there's already a map created with one tool, create one with another tool that might give a different perspective. Maps can be created with Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/), Bing (http://www.bing.com/maps/?FORM=Z9LH7), and other online tools.

- Check Google News or Interceder (http://interceder.net/) for the most recent news story, and post it with a note that it's the most recent story on the case.

- See if there's a candle lighting site for the victim. If so, light a candle and post the link. If not, create a site, light a candle, and post the link so others can light candles. http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/enter.cfm?l=ENG

- Humanize the victim - see if you can find some of the victim's favorite things, make a list, and post them. Did you find the victim's favorite song? See if you can find the lyrics, and post a link to them. Did you find the victim's favorite place to go? See if you can find a website for it, or a link to it on Google Maps or Bing.com, and link to them.

- Write up a recap of the victim's story, or a particular aspect of the case that interests or puzzles you, in your very own unique way, and post it.

- Write up a Myth Buster! Do you know of a rumor or misinformation that's made the rounds in the case and has always bugged you? Look up the source links for the real facts, and bust the myth!

- Find all the Nancy Grace transcripts for all the shows about the case, make a list of the links, and post them. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ng.html

- Start a list of direct quotes from LE, along with the date stated, and link to source. Post it and ask others to contribute to it.

- Is there a certain news video or press conference that you and others are constantly listening to to determine what was said? Transcribe it and post it for reference.

- Make a Who's Who list of the people in the case, with their full name so they can be searched for easily, and what their role or relationship is to the case. Use initials only though, when appropriate per TOS.

- Make a list of the news websites that have been covering the case regularly, collect their URLs, and post it.

- For cases where there are general discussion threads instead of a forum, check to see if important information and links have been brought forward from previous threads, such as timeline, case recap, list of news websites, photo archives, candle lighting site for the victim, etc. Post the ones that haven't been brought forward yet.
__________________

p.s. Happy Pesach to those who celebrate. Thinking of the Spierers on this, and every, holiday.

 

[Mahouston69]

Hi all! It seems we've hit a slow spot recently and are just spinning wheels. I've been reading through the Websleuth's resource topics, and found this forum on working with LE:

Working w/Authorities - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

The thread's OP and others suggest one member of each group contact LE for direct info. Has anyone here tried this approach? Thoughts? It takes metaphorical balls, but I'm willing to try if it hasn't been done yet.

If you want to, that's a great idea! Even a ..."we can't disclose that" is sometimes a telling answer. What is on your Wish List you want to know besides who is responsible for her disappearance?

1. Did they get her phone from JW directly, or Kilroys?
2. Do they now have her keys, keycard, and ID?
3. How exactly did they completely clear the driver of the white truck and are they local? Are they still?
4. Does JW have a solid alibi (eye witness, phone gps etc) for his being in bed 2:30 to sometime later that day?
5. Do the person(s) who punched and confronted CR have an alibi?
(They could have left Smallwood, seen her stumbling home without CR, picked her up to take her home where she belonged, and ...didn't.)
6. Video of anyone of the POIs leaving town in those early morning hours via traffic or business cams?
7. Video of JW going into Smallwood to see her, talk to her, take her to get her phone ...since he knew she left her phone at the bar? Or did he "know" she wasn't there to answer and go straight to get her roommate's key?
8. K9 results
9. Did they tell JW he could not search before he left?
10. Did they actually investigate the phones and records of all POIs or even look at JRs ipod to thoroughly investigate private messaging apps, and gps apps like Find My Phone or mylookout? In addition to any angry deleted texts, threats?
11. Do they know who was at JRs that night, morning, and when they left, and how? Were their vehicles searched?
12. Did they look at gathering all possible video to see if she was ever walking towards JWs, Back to Kilroys to get her phone or home? Or, did they only look at video brought to them voluntarily?
13. If she was barefoot, is there no testing that could have been done on the side walk to look for dna, or bare feet prints, that led to the corner from JWs house?
14. Were K9s used to track her scent from JRs front door to the corner? Did they find any scent of her there?

I think I hope too much. Remember this is a wish list

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[kpeacock]

If you want to, that's a great idea! Even a ..."we can't disclose that" is sometimes a telling answer. What is on your Wish List you want to know besides who is responsible for her disappearance?

1. Did they get her phone from JW directly, or Kilroys?
2. Do they now have her keys, keycard, and ID?
3. How exactly did they completely clear the driver of the white truck and are they local? Are they still?
4. Does JW have a solid alibi (eye witness, phone gps etc) for his being in bed 2:30 to sometime later that day?
5. Do the person(s) who punched and confronted CR have an alibi?
(They could have left Smallwood, seen her stumbling home without CR, picked her up to take her home where she belonged, and ...didn't.)
6. Video of anyone of the POIs leaving town in those early morning hours via traffic or business cams?
7. Video of JW going into Smallwood to see her, talk to her, take her to get her phone ...since he knew she left her phone at the bar? Or did he "know" she wasn't there to answer and go straight to get her roommate's key?
8. K9 results
9. Did they tell JW he could not search before he left?
10. Did they actually investigate the phones and records of all POIs or even look at JRs ipod to thoroughly investigate private messaging apps, and gps apps like Find My Phone or mylookout? In addition to any angry deleted texts, threats?
11. Do they know who was at JRs that night, morning, and when they left, and how? Were their vehicles searched?
12. Did they look at gathering all possible video to see if she was ever walking towards JWs, Back to Kilroys to get her phone or home? Or, did they only look at video brought to them voluntarily?
13. If she was barefoot, is there no testing that could have been done on the side walk to look for dna, or bare feet prints, that led to the corner from JWs house?
14. Were K9s used to track her scent from JRs front door to the corner? Did they find any scent of her there?

I think I hope too much. Remember this is a wish list

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

Thanks, y'all! I am definitely up for contacting LE. Currently thinking over the tactic that may work best, though I think starting as a representative of this group, offering our collective help, and having specific questions is good. If anyone here has advice on increasing my odds of success, I'm all for it!

One issue I've considered is attracting suspicion from LE by asking questions. It's helpful that I moved to Indiana months after LS disappeared.

I think Malhouston69's list is great. Several weeks ago many of us listed our nagging/unanswered questions here, and I'll go back though those as well. I'm curious about all of the "hundreds of hours" of security cam footage, and whether volunteers/fresh eyes could help review those.

Any lawyers on the thread? Advice on FOIA/what may/may not be legal in this quest?

 

[AbbeyR]

1. Did they get her phone from JW directly, or Kilroys?

I asked this recently, but it got lost in the flow: Where did the info about JW getting Lauren's phone come from? Was it actually stated somewhere, or did people just assume this from the conversation where HT said the bar contacted JW and told him they had Lauren's phone?

All I could find about the phone was that Kilroy's contacted JW and told him to tell his friend to come pick up her phone, and that LE had the things she left at Kilroy's. (Phone and shoes)

 

[AbbeyR]

@Kpeacock - I'm not sure about a tactic. LE has been so tight lipped in this case, and if they wouldn't share any info with the private investigators who could have helped with the case, I'm not sure that they would share information with a random person who calls asking questions.

That said, I would have assumed this was always the case, and from the link you posted it looks as though sometimes LE is more forthcoming.

 

[Ixchel13]

@Kpeacock - I'm not sure about a tactic. LE has been so tight lipped in this case, and if they wouldn't share any info with the private investigators who could have helped with the case, I'm not sure that they would share information with a random person who calls asking questions.

That said, I would have assumed this was always the case, and from the link you posted it looks as though sometimes LE is more forthcoming.

The detective in charge of the tip line and phone discussions is Det. LaPossa.
If you call the tip line and leave a message for him to call you, he calls back
right away. It's not totally anonymous, I mean I'm sure it could be, but they do ask who you are, where you work, and the nature of your call while screening for him. I was very forthcoming, and he called back within the hour.

 

[kpeacock]

The detective in charge of the tip line and phone discussions is Det. LaPossa.
If you call the tip line and leave a message for him to call you, he calls back
right away. It's not totally anonymous, I mean I'm sure it could be, but they do ask who you are, where you work, and the nature of your call while screening for him. I was very forthcoming, and he called back within the hour.

Thank you, Ixchel13, that's very helpful! I called BPD this morning and was referred to the tipline/email address. Was also told that the lead detective on the case is Det. Crussen. Composing an email currently, I'll keep you all updated. At the very least, it would be great to have some of our minor questions answered in order to eliminate certain lines of thought/question.

I don't plan on bombarding them with questions right away, but merely to see if a line of communication is possible. In that light, and following along Malhouston's post - what would you ask LE if you could? Any of you?

 

[akh]

Thank you, Ixchel13, that's very helpful! I called BPD this morning and was referred to the tipline/email address. Was also told that the lead detective on the case is Det. Crussen. Composing an email currently, I'll keep you all updated. At the very least, it would be great to have some of our minor questions answered in order to eliminate certain lines of thought/question.

I don't plan on bombarding them with questions right away, but merely to see if a line of communication is possible. In that light, and following along Malhouston's post - what would you ask LE if you could? Any of you?

I'd think the best bet initially would simply be to get some clarity on previously released information that might've been muddied over time or changed as things have progressed.

So, that could be timeline information (Does the original timeline still hold, has it been refined, or has new information shed any doubt on any parts of it)?

That could open a dialogue which involves questions in regards to some of the PI's version of the timeline which could lead to some clarity there.

You could ask whether the civil case has impacted the criminal investigation in any positive ways.

You could probably ask about the white truck being cleared and why it was more important than any other vehicles potentially seen in the videos. This might be treading too closely to information they don't want to release... or not...

I would suspect the most fruitful avenue would be questions to tidy up already released information... Firstly officially released info like the LE timeline, secondly PI released information, thirdly media released information, and fourthly rumors and internet speculation (which you might be best served by just mentioning their existence and asking if there are any that LE feels needs cleaned up rather than you reciting a laundry list. Then ask him to elaborate if the discussion goes in a fruitful direction). And that would hold true on any of the above- If it opens a dialogue then run with that more than trying to go down a list of your own questions. See where he wants to go.

 

[monkey222]

I would be interested in knowing if LE has access or has viewed video activity, phone/car/device gps of all named POIs (and JR guests) from days prior to LS missing (for comparative baseline) through mid June ish for abberrant activity. Would be great if LE could comment on any of MaHouston's list of questions.

 

[monkey222]

Also, I can't recall....when did JW first try to contact any of the 5N boys or the Smallwood residence folks other then HT, including altercation boys, or anyone partying that nite with LS, before he got involved in filing missing person report. Did he even contact 5N boys that am or early afternoon? I recall him and Dad went to 5N after report was filed, am I getting this right? Thx.

 

[imkeylime]

I'd like to know if it was ever verified that DB was actually at the Runcible Spoon later that morning ... IOW, if LE saw that tweet and checked it out.

 

[Mahouston69]

I do really want to know what type of dogs were used and if they actually hit on any scent of hers since we know she was up and down the alley several times that night. If that scent went anywhere else...if cadaver dogs were used and if they still could be now in that area?

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[VeryVeritas]

Snipped by me. I occasionally think about DR but am reluctant to bring him up, probably because he seems to have done the "right thing" in terms of LS. But he does begin and end the night, in that he took LS to JR's and was called from JR's much later. He interests me, if only because of that. But add the klonopin in ...

Maybe JR called DR just because of that ... the klonopin. Maybe he wanted to know how much she'd taken. Or precisely when, if she was ODing? I doubt it was well thought out, but if he knew she'd taken klonopin, might he have been calling DR to implicate him in some way?

I'm reaching here, obviously. But I do wonder if there's something we're missing!

You are headed in much the same direction with this as me.
You raise some other interesting thoughts as well.

My thought was that DR was experienced with Klonopin and knew he didn't want to crash at JR's and so headed back to SW IMMEDIATELY while he still could.
It causes me to wonder what LS's plan was if she also knew she would be very f'd up...?? Klonopin + booze alone is lights out. And DR's lights were most likely out when JR was calling at 4:15. I wonder when DR became conscious again?

I agree that one of the most plausible reasons for JR calling DR is exactly your first scenario. LS is dying (ODing) and so JR frantically wants to know how much of what she consumed so makes the 2 calls.

I'm also in agreement with Abbey that it appears from open phone calls that were made, that they weren't appearing to act in premeditated fashion using stealth communication. So the lesser likely scenario asks: If any calls were stealth, why not make all calls stealthy? Well here imkeylime gives a possible reason - the calls could have been staged. It seems to me that yes JR is very clever. It seems to me that yes JR, MB and CR are above average tech savvy. It is within the realm of possibility that if all of the important communication were stealth, then these 4:15 calls may have been for show, to cause LE to connect the wrong dots.

I can see what you mean about JR indirectly implicating DR in this way.
DR was forced to cooperate as a result, whereas JR could have just left him out of it. It's kind of like what I said about JR saying LS walked towards JW's, not back the way she came. Were the 4:15 calls a subtle hint to deflect attention away from himself? Again, I'm sure he is clever, just doubt he is THAT clever.

DB's runcible spoon tweet is the only public (and quite curious) thing which I'm aware of that points to possible coded signals.(or more staging) It seems to me that if the 4:15 calls were resulting from a panic situation... it didn't take long to get a grip and go into silent mode.

 

[Ixchel13]

You are headed in much the same direction with this as me.
You raise some other interesting thoughts as well.

My thought was that DR was experienced with Klonopin and knew he didn't want to crash at JR's and so headed back to SW IMMEDIATELY while he still could.
It causes me to wonder what LS's plan was if she also knew she would be very f'd up...?? Klonopin + booze alone is lights out. And DR's lights were most likely out when JR was calling at 4:15. I wonder when DR became conscious again?

I agree that one of the most plausible reasons for JR calling DR is exactly your first scenario. LS is dying (ODing) and so JR frantically wants to know how much of what she consumed so makes the 2 calls.

I'm also in agreement with Abbey that it appears from open phone calls that were made, that they weren't appearing to act in premeditated fashion using stealth communication. So the lesser likely scenario asks: If any calls were stealth, why not make all calls stealthy? Well here imkeylime gives a possible reason - the calls could have been staged. It seems to me that yes JR is very clever. It seems to me that yes JR, MB and CR are above average tech savvy. It is within the realm of possibility that if all of the important communication were stealth, then these 4:15 calls may have been for show, to cause LE to connect the wrong dots.
I can see what you mean about JR indirectly implicating DR in this way.
DR was forced to cooperate as a result, whereas JR could have just left him out of it. It's kind of like what I said about JR saying LS walked towards JW's, not back the way she came. Were the 4:15 calls a subtle hint to deflect attention away from himself? Again, I'm sure he is clever, just doubt he is THAT clever.

DB's runcible spoon tweet is the only public (and quite curious) thing which I'm aware of that points to possible coded signals.(or more staging) It seems to me that if the 4:15 calls were resulting from a panic situation... it didn't take long to get a grip and go into silent mode.

BBM exactly what I was thinking

 

[kpeacock]

Just an update: sent an email request yesterday to Det. Crussen, Det. Qualters (chief, you may remember him from press conferences) and the tipline. Fingers crossed! Keep the questions coming.

On my end, I'm most interested in video surveillance yet unreported, from that night - and the next morning.

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[kpeacock]

I'd think the best bet initially would simply be to get some clarity on previously released information that might've been muddied over time or changed as things have progressed.

So, that could be timeline information (Does the original timeline still hold, has it been refined, or has new information shed any doubt on any parts of it)?

That could open a dialogue which involves questions in regards to some of the PI's version of the timeline which could lead to some clarity there.

You could ask whether the civil case has impacted the criminal investigation in any positive ways.

You could probably ask about the white truck being cleared and why it was more important than any other vehicles potentially seen in the videos. This might be treading too closely to information they don't want to release... or not...

I would suspect the most fruitful avenue would be questions to tidy up already released information... Firstly officially released info like the LE timeline, secondly PI released information, thirdly media released information, and fourthly rumors and internet speculation (which you might be best served by just mentioning their existence and asking if there are any that LE feels needs cleaned up rather than you reciting a laundry list. Then ask him to elaborate if the discussion goes in a fruitful direction). And that would hold true on any of the above- If it opens a dialogue then run with that more than trying to go down a list of your own questions. See where he wants to go.

Really valuable advice. Thank you!

Sent from my VS930 4G using Tapatalk

 

[imkeylime]

... My thought was that DR was experienced with Klonopin and knew he didn't want to crash at JR's and so headed back to SW IMMEDIATELY while he still could.

It causes me to wonder what LS's plan was if she also knew she would be very f'd up...?? Klonopin + booze alone is lights out. And DR's lights were most likely out when JR was calling at 4:15. I wonder when DR became conscious again?

I agree that one of the most plausible reasons for JR calling DR is exactly your first scenario. LS is dying (ODing) and so JR frantically wants to know how much of what she consumed so makes the 2 calls....

Snipped by me. Interesting questions. It would be useful to know if they consumed the same amount of klonopin, given that they allegedly snorted it. I don't know much about DR, but I'm assuming he's a LOT bigger than LS. I agree about questioning the motivation ...

So apparently klonopin reaches efficacy within 1-4 hours of taking it and is one of the longest acting benzos. Here's a link re: OD:

http://www.rxlist.com/klonopin-drug/overdosage-contraindications.htm

One other thing is that DR seemed to have separated himself from the other POIs pretty early on, IMO, for whatever reason.

 

[monkey222]

Thx kpeacock. Let's hope for dialogue.