IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #34

[Wondering Aloud]

UGH.....was he working Friday June 3rd, 2011 or not? Come on BPD, give us something.

I am on the fence about his involvement with LS. But, I am always on the fence about what happened that morning. Hannah's case makes abduction in Lauren's case a real possibility, DM or not.

Would be interesting to match up the reported attempted sexual assaults over the years around the bars to...say...Thursday nights/Friday mornings.

 

[CNYgirl]

I want some newsssssss!!!! :tantrum:

 

[akh]

I would think if DM was easily cleared in any involvement with LS's case we would've heard it by now. Which doesn't mean he was involved, but it does seem to indicate nothing has been found that 100% has cleared him.

Of course it's the BPD who seems to plays things close to their vest, possibly to a fault. So who knows...

 

[CoolJ]

Can anyone think of any scenarios where both DM and people close to LS could be involved together?

 

[Ros]

Well we know that they all went to bars. DM went to trivia night at Yogi's. LS and CR went to Kilroy's.


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[4 Free Speech]

First video I have seen of Lauren - it reminds me so much of Hannah Graham.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/07...ared-incapacitated-on-night-she-went-missing/

This photo distributed by the Bloomington Police Department, shows Lauren Spierer, taken by a video surveillance camera as she left her apartment building on the night she disappeared in Bloomington, Ind. (AP Photo/Bloomington Police Department)

According to a new report, video evidence shows Spierer stumbling out of an elevator, falling against a wall and being helped to her feet by a friend.
Spierer was last seen on June 3 in Bloomington, Indiana where she goes to school at Indiana University and police suspect foul play.

p.s. I searched his initials and his birthdate the same syntax that he used on the sugardaddy site: DEM8765 and found a couple of links to a homosexual *advertiser censored* site, which I can't post here, but you get the idea. Did he have mother issues??? Why is he so angry at women?

According to this article he did have some issues with his mother:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...ence/26752185/

He also shared with prison officials the source of some of his anger. His parents, Paul and Charlotte Brown, divorced when he was very young. His mother remarried Gerald Messel, who became Daniel's adoptive father when the boy was 3. After that, Daniel's relationship with his mother deteriorated and he found the period to be very difficult. He wound up living with his adoptive father.

Just thinking out loud!!! JMO.

 

[Ros]

Can anyone think of any scenarios where both DM and people close to LS could be involved together?

I don't know if DM interacted with customers at work, but IU students may have had various things printed such as business cards, resumes, letterhead etc.


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[Wondering Aloud]

I would think if DM was easily cleared in any involvement with LS's case we would've heard it by now. Which doesn't mean he was involved, but it does seem to indicate nothing has been found that 100% has cleared him.

Of course it's the BPD who seems to plays things close to their vest, possibly to a fault. So who knows...

Yes.

According the the FB page for Marina Boelter (run by her brother and sister-in-law), the family has been told by detectives that DM was not involved in her disappearance.

This is what instigated my impatience for info about a LS/DM connection. The FBI interview made it clear his 'tips' were leading him in a different direction, so what's the hold up?

When an FBI agent (retired) states he has never seen a case with so little information released...we need a leaker....STAT.

(Note. The above should not be detrimental to a prosecution.)

 

[Ixchel13]

Yes.

According the the FB page for Marina Boelter (run by her brother and sister-in-law), the family has been told by detectives that DM was not involved in her disappearance.

This is what instigated my impatience for info about a LS/DM connection. The FBI interview made it clear his 'tips' were leading him in a different direction, so what's the hold up?

When an FBI agent (retired) states he has never seen a case with so little information released...we need a leaker....STAT.

(Note. The above should not be detrimental to a prosecution.)

BM: Looks like we have a leaker, it's the retired FBI agent!

 

[akh]

BM: Looks like we have a leaker, it's the retired FBI agent!

The retired FBI agent is only 'leaking' what his own investigation has learned. And apparently he has a TV show/news slot he's probably looking to syndicate so he's probably biased about solving the crime independent of what LE might have. He might be privy to some leaks to help his investigation but I doubt he's in a position to really then turnaround and re-leak those things himself. Otherwise, he'd likely lose his source. So at best, we're either going to learn leaks that his own investigation has independently learned or else a slip of the tongue where he gives us a further detail that has, to this point, been kept quiet.

 

[AbbeyR]

I obviously hope that DM is thoroughly investigated, but I'm not counting on LE to update us on whether or not he has been cleared in relation to Lauren's case. Both the retired FBI agent and the Spierers' private investigators indicated that they had recent movement in the case (not related to DM) - I'm so curious to know where that is going.

 

[akh]

I obviously hope that DM is thoroughly investigated, but I'm not counting on LE to update us on whether or not he has been cleared in relation to Lauren's case. Both the retired FBI agent and the Spierers' private investigators indicated that they had recent movement in the case (not related to DM) - I'm so curious to know where that is going.

I would expect them to clear him IF it was obvious he had nothing to do with it. IOW... ironclad alibi. But even if they are all but sure he didn't have anything to do with it, but can't exclude him based on an alibi for example, then we won't know it this soon. They would only exclude him if it's obvious.

 

[Ixchel13]

The retired FBI agent is only 'leaking' what his own investigation has learned. And apparently he has a TV show/news slot he's probably looking to syndicate so he's probably biased about solving the crime independent of what LE might have. He might be privy to some leaks to help his investigation but I doubt he's in a position to really then turnaround and re-leak those things himself. Otherwise, he'd likely lose his source. So at best, we're either going to learn leaks that his own investigation has independently learned or else a slip of the tongue where he gives us a further detail that has, to this point, been kept quiet.

well yeah, that's really what I was saying....IMO, he has inside info verifying that LE has much more info than they're letting on to (we knew that, but he's seeming to verify this) and, he's saying there's new info . We can take this as business as usual, or think of it as "leaking" whether or not it is being purposely done by LE through this guy, or he has a personal agenda, who knows? just stating that it is happening, for whatever reason. If he wants to capitalize on Lauren's case by solving it, isn't that what the reward is about?
If this guy was Joe Blow from Kokomo, with no prior knowledge of crime, it may seem a bit sensational, but,
with crime being his thing, and him being retired with time to use his resources, IMO it's a big fat plus that he's on the case. He may be able to rattle some cages that active LE can't be seen to be doing.

 

[helenjean]

While I suspect that CR may have wanted to hook up with LS, that in itself doesn't mean he slipped anything in her drink. It seems like there were opportunities for her to be under the influence of some substance and alcohol earlier in the night. However, helping her drink alcohol at Sports surely didn't do her any favors, nor did leaving SW with her, regardless of the reason. That said, I agree that MB and JR provide a strange alibi of sorts for CR, as I don't know why they'd stick their necks out if he solely was involved.

Also, I do think that the hit at SW, in combination with whatever he himself took or drank that night, might have lead him to pass out back at 5N. It's the amnesia that I don't buy into. I think it's convenient for him to forget what happened that night. Maybe it's a "I'll protect your back if you protect mine" thing? Regardless, I think he and most likely MB could help solve this case if they wanted to.

I think it's odd people jump to the ol' "slipped something in her drink" scenario when to me, what I've gathered from the overall account of the evening, is basically just "college". Kids partying - drinking, drugs were mentioned - which would explain why a 90lb girl would be extremely intoxicated - but also that CR was pretty drunk himself. To me it sounded like they went back to her place - shoes, to hang out, whatever - but were interrupted by this ZO character (apparently a friend of JW? I only read that a couple of places) and I think a solid punch to face while intoxicated could mess up the rest of your memory of the evening. Sounds like they struggled to walk the 5 min back to his place. He barely made it up to his own bedroom falling and vomiting which sounds like either a)your typical overindulgence and/or b) a possible concussion.

I find it most perplexing that while we are able to track movement based on witnesses and security cameras throughout most of LS's night, once she leaves the apartment there's nothing. I know it's been said they think she never left but what would that entail? One was vomiting and passing out, one was already home probably also intoxicated with visitors staying with him, and the third was studying. If something happened within either apartment, that would mean -what? They all are "in it together", corroborating a story? I don't buy that between intoxicated college kids, including an out-of-towner. Also her friends. Yeah, drugs were there, but this isn't THAT outrageous. I feel security cameras are the only answer at this point. Is there one somewhere that hasn't been reviewed?

Rambling, yes, but this is quite the timeline with multiple players. :gaah:

 

[helenjean]

Sorry maybe I missed a couple things but why are we saying that MB took, let alone "snorted" anything? Wasn't he just staying in? What you're describing above - Adderall, Vyvanse, Klonopin - very specific. I heard rumors about Klonopin but did anyone ever confirm? I only think that is important bc it would explain everyones intoxication level. I think the JR party had cocaine. That seems to be the consensus. Wasn't it MB that said she wanted to party? Sounds more to me that he didn't know what to do with her while he was apparently up still doing school work of some sort and called JR because he had been partying. Please correct me if I'm not up to speed on the info. Too much info really and too many versions of the same story...

 

[Ixchel13]

also, in relation to people being "cleared" in cases Take Mickey Shunick's case--At first her best friend was a suspect, and he was vetted in the public's eyes. Then, they cleared him and continued to maintain that he is not a suspect. At that point, they had video of Mickey being abducted.
Every LE is different, but our's here in Bloomington have had plenty of time to clear the POIs, or one or more of them, in Lauren's case. Yes, I know, people will come on and post that because they don't have an alibi or lied about where they were doesn't make them guilty.
Our LE has said many times that the last time LAUREN was seen on video was emerging from that alley. What they haven't said, and refuse to say, is who they saw on video or heard on audio after that time and what they seem to have been doing and saying.And yet, they do have this info. And that is why, IMO, these guys are POIs, not just because they happened to admit being the last to see her.

 

[Ixchel13]

Sorry maybe I missed a couple things but why are we saying that MB took, let alone "snorted" anything? Wasn't he just staying in? What you're describing above - Adderall, Vyvanse, Klonopin - very specific. I heard rumors about Klonopin but did anyone ever confirm? I only think that is important bc it would explain everyones intoxication level. I think the JR party had cocaine. That seems to be the consensus. Wasn't it MB that said she wanted to party? Sounds more to me that he didn't know what to do with her while he was apparently up still doing school work of some sort and called JR because he had been partying. Please correct me if I'm not up to speed on the info. Too much info really and too many versions of the same story...

that was me with the MB theory. We are given the POI's version of their stories, and, then by the nature of this forum we are allowed to speculate. Let's not forget that MB is right in there with these "kids" who do drugs and drink--why would he be an innocent and live and hang out with these druggies? Sure, these kids were smart, and rich, but, users, all of them.
So whether he likes it or not, MB is in the thick of things. Why wouldn't he lie? It's only his word that it was Lauren
who asked him if he wanted to party--not the other way around. He doesn't even have another POI to back that up.
If you read my theory concerning this, and it is only a theory and one of many of mine, I could see him exaggerating how much studying he was doing, and really,
I was theorizing that he may have a prescription for study drugs, hence the emphasis on studying. This makes perfect sense if he shared any of these study drugs, a perfect alibi
if Lauren is found to have accidentally OD'd is that she must have helped herself while he was upstairs helping poor, incapacitated CR.
It is my opinion that everything they have said is a calculated, well-crafted sum of an alibi that cannot be proven or unproven. They think. And yes, they very well could be in it together and that wouldn't even be a far-fetched conclusion. in the slightest sense of the word.

edited to add that when the Spierers began the civil suit, they asked for phone records of a list of people, and also MEDICAL records. We don't know if these were given to them, or how much of what they requested was given to them. So.......whether or not any of these witnesses or POIs had access to a prescription could factor in if one of these POIs were the last to see her, just sayin.

 

[Wondering Aloud]

Or maybe the BPD doesn't have anything substantial. They have told 'us' several times they are no closer to solving this, than they were on day 1. I am starting to believe them.

I think everyone hopes they are holding things close to the vest, but now I am not so sure. Give us your working theory. You don't have to name names. Just a general, we think based on our best evidence..........fill in the blank. At this point, what is there to lose (I'll take opinions on this)? As she has not been found, It seems the only thing that is going to solve this case is pressure, and they aren't exerting any. The old adage 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' comes to mind. Maybe that will change when the FBI agent gets his show aired, I hope it does.

And some food for thought. DM, a local lifetime resident and a seasoned criminal who had been to prison for violence against women, dumps the body where it can apparently be seen from the road and can't even manage to clean up his car in the 12-16 hours after he committed a murder, but 1 or more weathly spoiled rich college kids from the east coast committed the perfect crime (I mean disposing of a body, not murder) after a night of heavy partying?

 

[AbbeyR]

Or maybe the BPD doesn't have anything substantial. They have told 'us' several times they are no closer to solving this, than they were on day 1.

They have? I don't recall this.

My impression from reading cases on this forum over the past couple of years is that whether or not a person is found has less to do with intelligence or background of the criminal than just luck. There's a lot of places to search out there.

 

[Ixchel13]

Or maybe the BPD doesn't have anything substantial. They have told 'us' several times they are no closer to solving this, than they were on day 1. I am starting to believe them.

I think everyone hopes they are holding things close to the vest, but now I am not so sure. Give us your working theory. You don't have to name names. Just a general, we think based on our best evidence..........fill in the blank. At this point, what is there to lose (I'll take opinions on this)? As she has not been found, It seems the only thing that is going to solve this case is pressure, and they aren't exerting any. The old adage 'cutting off your nose to spite your face' comes to mind. Maybe that will change when the FBI agent gets his show aired, I hope it does.

And some food for thought. DM, a local lifetime resident and a seasoned criminal who had been to prison for violence against women, dumps the body where it can apparently be seen from the road and can't even manage to clean up his car in the 12-16 hours after he committed a murder, but 1 or more weathly spoiled rich college kids from the east coast committed the perfect crime (I mean disposing of a body, not murder) after a night of heavy partying?

everyone of interest has been named except the second guy JR called, and the out of town guest. We found out the out of town guest's name through hearsay and sleuthed him. But what about the second guy called? I think he must be on the witness lists from the civil trial.
IMO, second guy called by JR must be JW. and was it a call or text? my son would always rather text than call,
texting is the new calling. So, JR calls (texts) JW. JW doesn't answer the call (text). But, he reads it. IDK...
Maybe it says something like, "Lauren's in trouble, insists on walking home, will try to keep her here until you get here.." But she doesn't want JW to get her and leaves, but
by then he's at the corner, from his house he would be walking due west on 11th and crossing College, not coming from the south on College, so he would be somewhat visible. He would want to get them off College to avoid a PI so he would try to get Lauren into one of those walkways between the houses right there at the corner and then proceed to the alley between 10th and C to walk to SW.
If she kept falling, he may have straightened her up too
roughly and she banged her head against a wall or on stairs. To me, this is when the bar witness saw them. If she were unconscious, he may have needed to pick her up and bring her back to 5N, and then pulled the others back into the fray, blaming them for an OD when it was really the head smack that killed her combined with the drugs.
In exchange for being written out of the whole mess,
CR could be forgetting that at Kilroy's he and Lauren were threatened by JW's friends and then followed to SW and attacked; forgetting who was there when they stopped at 10th and College; forgetting that his roommate gave Lauren more drugs; and forgetting that JW brought Lauren back unconscious or possibly dead and they plotted to remove her body by car out of state. By forgetting all of that, CR will also be forgetting whatever he did or whatever he was promised for forgetting. JMO, speculating, and yes, it could have been conspiracy to hide a body.
We have no idea the lengths these very wealthy people are going to to prevent their sons (daughters)
from being further questioned. But I can imagine they are
not cooperating in any way, shape or form and refusing to answer a single question unless formally charged.