IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #9

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I am not so sure that any sort of noise or clamor even at 4am would be that unusual in a college apartment building with bars closing at 3am...
 
Jupiter812 said:
Article linked below is over a week old and has some name errors in it (refers to JR as CR) but look at these two quotes, both from CR's lawyer. Another confrontation. That is news to me.

"Salzmann said there was another 'confrontation' at Rossman's building, but would not give any details."

"Salzman who said his client is not involved in Spierer's disappearance revealed he thought 'there is a lot more to this' case. 'The answer in a good 90 per cent of the cases is someone that they are intimately involved with, he told Fox News."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...message-daughters-attacker.html#ixzz1P39LSrL3
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Supposedly JW went to CR's apt. to confront him the next day.
 
sv614 said:
That's a really good point, Nancy. Neighbors hearing a clamor, for example. These are all apartments, afterall, so one would have to imagine they are fairly close together. I hear shuffle in my NYC apt hallways all the time. Then again, I do imagine that someone would be taking EXTRA care to be stealth during a crime.
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I think many of the neighbors within the same building are college-aged partying males. There are no neighbors across the street. Nada. There is a vacant lot behind the apt. building. A parking lot to the west and an old frame 2-story house, I believe, to the east.
 
Long-time Local said:
It's my photo. I gave him permission to use it, so we're good. TG actually posted in this thread (or late in the previous one).
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I just saw that, I was a little behind. Didn't know Tony was a member :crazy: and didn't know it was your pic. Thanks for all your input in this case. :)
 
I remember there was a local with a daughter at IU. WOndering if she or he can find out what kind of transportation did JR use to go back home? Plane, did he drive a distance? If Lauren is in a landfill I am afraid she will never be found.
 
jennyb629 said:
JW did not initiate the search 'the next am,' as you state. What he did was text her, learn that the bar still had her phone, go to her roommate's class to get a key to the apt and go to Lauren's apt, and later on he called Lauren's parents to let them know she was missing but that was not until about 3 in the afternoon of the day after she went missing (June 3). Two of Lauren's girl friends were the ones who reported Lauren missing to the police. Also, as far as we know, the only thing that JW did in 'the search' for Lauren was to use her roommate's key to get access to her apt. (during which time he could have been confiscating evidence). He has not participated in any of the search efforts for Lauren as he was asked not to like all PsOI are asked not to...He returned to his parents' home in NY shortly after she went missing and he has a high-profile lawyer so it's hard to know how much information he has provided to LE/how much help he has been in the case but it's quite doubtful that he has been very involved as he is not even in the state to talk with LE or even to be a source of moral support to Lauren's family/friends. I'm not saying I think he did it but I don't think there is any way we can rule him out as a POI based on the very limited information that has been made publicly available. He also has a clear motive for wanting to harm her as she was spending the evening with other guys...we don't know him so we have no way of knowing if he was the jealous/possessive type who would get angry about her hanging out with other guys or not but in my experience, the majority of boyfriends wouldn't like that too much. His motive is also apparent in that several of his friends were the ones involved in a fight with CR earlier in the night, presumably a fight that took place because the friends were upset on JW's behalf that Lauren was w/ another guy...there are just too many unknowns in this case for us to be sure that JW is not a probable POI.

Also, just because we cannot place him in the timeline of events/in recorded videos doesn't mean anything, because we don't know what information LE has that we don't and they may well have evidence of his involvement but not enough to prove anything yet. He also has a very weak alibi as far as we know because it is just one of his frat brothers saying that JW received no calls/texts or visitors after 2:30 am that night and that he went to bed around that time. This is not corroborated by any solid evidence that we know of-it could very well just be the roommate/frat brother trying to protect JW.
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They had nearly 12 hours to dispose of her body and get their stories straight. I am sure most of them are aware of the security cameras because I guarantee they know people that have gotten busted by them (vandalizing etc). They could have easily snuck her out and put her in a truck and then ditched her sometime between 3am and 4pm. You can be in some real rural areas in an hour drive any direction from Btown.
 
I guess what I'm trying to get my head around is her level of impairment and also the 'imtimacy' of the relationship (if at all) with CR. I would think there would be testimonials from witnesses from Kilroy's? I hear you about walking around w/o shoes, but forgetting them and leaving them, along with phone....says impairment to me (along with missing jacket, keys and wallet). It's an aweful lot to loose if not impaired.

Also, someone close (HT or JR or other witnesses) has to understand the interest that CR and LS had in each other if any.

If we remove jealousy/cheating/new boyfirend, AND remove impairment...they only crime we likely have is either sexual assault or abduction.

At what point can LE 'force' (not sure of proper word) JR to make a statement? If he's last seen and they have conflicting or issue with his story, is that enough to 'bring him in'?
 
Tony Gatto reported that a "bar employee" claims to have seen LS at 3:38 with a "dark skinned stranger". LE has not confirmed this evidence but it sounds pretty credible. The "dark skinned stranger" sounds like someone she met on the street. (He asked her if he could help her home). If he was one of her friends, he would already be helping her home. Since, presumably, no "dark skinned stranger" has come forward; we might certainly have a "suspect".

The question then becomes, why would JR say she didn't leave his apt until 4:30? Is it possible that LS really left JR's place alive but JR lied about the time because he knew she was really wasted and the later she left, the more time she had to sober up and the less "responsible" he would appear for whatever happened?
 
Jupiter812 said:
I think many of the neighbors within the same building are college-aged partying males. There are no neighbors across the street. Nada. There is a vacant lot behind the apt. building. A parking lot to the west and an old frame 2-story house, I believe, to the east.
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Yes, just to clarify, across the street (north) from 5 North is a wooded field with railroad tracks and an abandoned car dealership (yes, we've checked it all). To the west is an old building on a smallish grassy lot owned by IU, the notorious empty gravel lot behind the building (south) as well as parking and the Dumpster for 5 North. The older 2-story house on the corner to the east is now separated from 5 North by a couple newly constructed apartment dwellings that look like older homes in the area. You can see these a bit in Btown's daytime photo of the view up 11th St. There's a lot of construction activity in the area and a lot of debris. I can't imagine walking barefoot through here at the moment.
 
pjessie said:
I guess what I'm trying to get my head around is her level of impairment and also the 'imtimacy' of the relationship (if at all) with CR. I would think there would be testimonials from witnesses from Kilroy's? I hear you about walking around w/o shoes, but forgetting them and leaving them, along with phone....says impairment to me (along with missing jacket, keys and wallet). It's an aweful lot to loose if not impaired.

Also, someone close (HT or JR or other witnesses) has to understand the interest that CR and LS had in each other if any.

If we remove jealousy/cheating/new boyfirend, AND remove impairment...they only crime we likely have is either sexual assault or abduction.

At what point can LE 'force' (not sure of proper word) JR to make a statement? If he's last seen and they have conflicting or issue with his story, is that enough to 'bring him in'?
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LE can only ASK for his cooperation, ask for a statement. Without arresting him, they can't even require he come to the station or take their calls. I would really like to think that all of these guys are cooperating, with attorneys at their side, but it does not appear to be the case.
 
justmethinking said:
Getting kicked out could have been as easy as she tried to order a drink at the bar and the bartender knew/realized she was not 21 or checked her fake ID and told her to get out.
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They card you at the door before you enter Sports. They wouldn't be carding her inside as well. Once you are in you are in.
 
I'm still catching up and am about an hour behind, so sorry if the following opinion is outdated!

I don't see anything strange with LS walking around barefoot.

LS's shoes may have hurt her. Even if she hadn't forgotten her shoes at the bar, if her shoes hurt, she would've walked home barefoot. She likely felt comfortable in Bloomington, so she probably wouldn't minded walking barefoot. She probably also knew that she could just pick up her shoes tomorrow, so getting her shoes back wasn't a priority. *If* she got kicked out of the bar, as some speculated, she may not have had a chance to retrieve her shoes.

I remember countless friends who would walk home from a bar barefoot while I was in college. They usually didn't forget their shoes there, but either took off their shoes because they hurt or because it was nice out and they wanted to run through grass or whatever without ruining their shoes.

Point being, they didn't care that they were barefoot and weren't trying to find a more comfortable pair of shoes, unless they had plans to go to another bar (barefoot in bars somehow always seemed ickier than walking barefoot on the streets idk)

Also, if LS was blacked out or at least intoxicated, it's likely she didn't notice or care about her feet.

JMHO! :)
 
illinialum said:
I don't see anything strange with LS walking around barefoot.

LS's shoes may have hurt her. Even if she hadn't forgotten her shoes at the bar, if her shoes hurt, she would've walked home barefoot. She likely felt comfortable in Bloomington, so she probably wouldn't minded walking barefoot. She probably also knew that she could just pick up her shoes tomorrow, so getting her shoes back wasn't a priority. *If* she got kicked out of the bar, as some speculated, she may not have had a chance to retrieve her shoes.

Also, if LS was blacked out or at least intoxicated, it's likely she didn't notice or care about her feet.

JMHO! :)
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I totally agree with you. Another possibility in the fact that she left her shoes/cell phone behind would be (as I think others may have mentioned in earlier threads) that there was someone (or a group of people) at the bar who was bothering her and/or CR (taunting them, saying mean things, threatening them, etc) and that she would have had to walk back by this person/group to retrieve her shoes/phone and she would rather have just gotten out of there as quickly as possible instead of risking more harassment. Another alternative could be that if she and/or CR were acquiring drugs somehow at the bar then she would have wanted to high-tail it out of there soon after the transaction and wouldn't have collected all her things in her haste to leave.
 
illinialum said:
I'm still catching up and am about an hour behind, so sorry if the following opinion is outdated!

I don't see anything strange with LS walking around barefoot.

LS's shoes may have hurt her. Even if she hadn't forgotten her shoes at the bar, if her shoes hurt, she would've walked home barefoot. She likely felt comfortable in Bloomington, so she probably wouldn't minded walking barefoot. She probably also knew that she could just pick up her shoes tomorrow, so getting her shoes back wasn't a priority. *If* she got kicked out of the bar, as some speculated, she may not have had a chance to retrieve her shoes.

I remember countless friends who would walk home from a bar barefoot while I was in college. They usually didn't forget their shoes there, but either took off their shoes because they hurt or because it was nice out and they wanted to run through grass or whatever without ruining their shoes.

Point being, they didn't care that they were barefoot and weren't trying to find a more comfortable pair of shoes, unless they had plans to go to another bar (barefoot in bars somehow always seemed ickier than walking barefoot on the streets idk)

Also, if LS was blacked out or at least intoxicated, it's likely she didn't notice or care about her feet.

JMHO! :)
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I think my concern about the LS being barefoot is not that it would be uncomfortable (I too have walked all over Bloomington with bare feet), but the area in which we have no video or photographic proof of her walking is littered with construction debris and trash like nails and glass (I base this on observations our search team made when we were in that area on June 8). It would be so easy to cut your foot and leave a trace of blood. We were looking for blood on the 8th and it hadn't rained yet, so there would have been traces remaining. I'm not saying "Thou shalt not walk through nails and glass without cutting thy foot," but I would not walk barefoot through that if I could help it. Maybe she walked in the street and JR didn't mention it. I suppose I also have a problem with the cruel irony of being lucky enough to walk through such a landscape unscathed only to have that luck completely run out the minute one turns a corner up the road.
 
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