IN IN - Paul Raymond Harrod, adult, may have been using false identity, Hamilton County, 27 Nov 1992

[Owutatangledweb]

This is a public record so ok to post, it looks like Paul filled out most of the form, so worthwhile to study the handwriting if any other potential people are found and have their writing to compare.

View attachment 176513

Bumping for facts.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Strong signature! Anyone aware of a poster knowledgeable about handwriting? (Likely among the JBR Ransom Note folk!)

There is certainly huge variation across a group of humans -- but JMHO that is an atypical signature for a janitor.

And, possibly we only looking for divorces in November of 1985!

@luv2mets, have you looked at not Paul R. Harrod's pictures?

His middle initial looks nothing like an R, more like a D J or O. The P in Paul is crazy. Those things make it look like he forgot what he was writing. Not natural at all.

 

[Anirtak]

His middle initial looks nothing like an R, more like a D J or O. The P in Paul is crazy. Those things make it look like he forgot what he was writing. Not natural at all.

I agree, his middle initial looks more like an O or D to me and his "P" looks like a J. Purely speculation but it looks like someone who is purposefully trying to hide their hand writing. Even some of the same letters on that paper are written in completely different ways with different angles, starting and stopping points. MOO

 

[Vern]

One more bit of information... the only thing I can find he messed up... on one document he says his mother's name is Margaret Coletti. The name of the actual mother of the kid who's identity he stole is Mary Eleanor Condon (Harrod). Not sure if this was an intentional mistake or just a slip. He told his wife he was born in IL but from the Brox.

So, if we assume that he made a slip and a iota of truth is told with the name of "Margaret Coletti" perhaps there may be something to the Bronx as well. We do know he was familiar with high school names from around those parts.

In the 1940 census, I've found a Margaret Coletti, living in the Bronx, with two young boys, her mother and her husband. The 2 boys listed would be over the age range (1 year and 3 years old at census), but if Margaret went on to have another boy in 41-43, that would also put that boys' age range at 49-51 in 1992 when the marriage took place which is another consistency with PRH's story back then. Her youngest known son (1 at census) would have been 52 at time of PRH's 1992 wedding.

Does PRH look 50 in the photos? No, but many people do age well. I am not one of them. My husband is - he's older than me, but I look 10 years older than him.

Margaret Coletti from Assembly District 2 Bronx in 1940 Census District 3-272A

 

[CyresAres1]

Everyone is killing it! Thank you!

 

[Vern]

I’m from Yonkers and am wondering why Roosevelt? He said he grew up in the Bronx. He wouldn’t have gone to Roosevelt unless he grew up in Yonkers and just said the Bronx? Confused

I'm really starting to believe that he was a Bronx boy. But, he was a Bronx boy who was lying about his identity.

I've found census for a Margaret Coletti in the Bronx of the right age range to perhaps have been his mother. She had at least 2 small boys (1 and 3 in 1940), but may went on to have more children after that census.

If he did make telling slips of the tongue/writing (Margaret Coletti, "from the Bronx"), it is possible that he purposefully "lied" those up by saying other things that were 1/2 truths:

"born in Illinois, but raised in the Bronx" (if the census Margaret is correct he'd have been born in the Bronx too)

"raised in the Bronx, and attended Roosevelt". He obviously was familiar with surrounding high school names, so perhaps the 1/2 lie in that statement is the school name meant to mislead those who would pry.

Perhaps he knew the Yonkers' school name because he was a student athlete etc who competed against teams from there while in school so it was easy on his tongue while telling his obvious tall tales? He knew the school was in New York, so there's a connection with him to NY at some point in his life when he'd have been age enough to remember schools and their names.

 

[Laughing]

I found that Margaret -- and am still intrigued by your FaceBook find, Vern!

But -- this Margeret's maiden name was probably something other than Coletti....

ETA: standard English spelling

 

[Vern]

I found that Margaret -- and am still intrigued by your FaceBook find, Vern!

But -- this Margeret's maiden name was probably something other than Coletti....

ETA: standard English spelling

Yes, I'm thinking that the maiden name was perhaps Esposito (hyperlinked within that census link from earlier). But, did he slip when he wrote down that "Margaret Coletti" was his mother? If so, this Margaret Coletti is the right age, right name, right town with a 1 year old and 3 year old boy in 1940 … so close to keeping with that imposter being around 50 in 1992 as well. If that's her, her name was Coletti when she had him so it would fit with the "Margaret Coletti" he entered as his mother's name in error on whatever paperwork the good detective has managed to track down.

Also in keeping with the "Italian background" comment that he had made.

I can't seem to get back to the profile from facebook that I had found earlier. Searching the full three names, but nothing coming up now. I will keep trying it to see if it pops back up eventually.

 

[StarrChance]

Noticed that in the second article posted here by Detective, a woman named Margaret M(last name in article) and her Navy husband were also guests of Mrs Harrod (née Condon) and her Navy husband Paul at the Condons' home at the same time. Wonder if Mr. Harrod's Good Navy buddy and his wife, "Margaret" had a son or if Margaret later did under another name or wonder if Margaret's maiden name was Coletti.

Need some ancestry/ genealogy help here folks! Not my forte.

Hi, can you point me the post or post number; thread getting a bit long to search back.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Hi, can you point me the post or post number; thread getting a bit long to search back.

Sorry. I thought it was included in my post. I'll find it.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Can't get the post or attachments to come up in this post. It is post # 235. There are two articles attached by the detective.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Hi, can you point me the post or post number; thread getting a bit long to search back.

See post #235. Second attachment.

 

[StarrChance]

Hi, can you point me the post or post number; thread getting a bit long to search back.

Think I’ve got this right... I read it as Margaret is the Rev Condon daughter and McMahon her married name.

 

[CyresAres1]

Yes, I'm thinking that the maiden name was perhaps Esposito (hyperlinked within that census link from earlier). But, did he slip when he wrote down that "Margaret Coletti" was his mother? If so, this Margaret Coletti is the right age, right name, right town with a 1 year old and 3 year old boy in 1940 … so close to keeping with that imposter being around 50 in 1992 as well. If that's her, her name was Coletti when she had him so it would fit with the "Margaret Coletti" he entered as his mother's name in error on whatever paperwork the good detective has managed to track down.

Also in keeping with the "Italian background" comment that he had made.

I can't seem to get back to the profile from facebook that I had found earlier. Searching the full three names, but nothing coming up now. I will keep trying it to see if it pops back up eventually.

Remember... our Paul had to say he was born in Illinois to keep on point with where the real Paul was born... Evanston Illinois.

 

[Vern]

Remember... our Paul had to say he was born in Illinois to keep on point with where the real Paul was born... Evanston Illinois.

Indeed; if the Margaret is the census Margaret, he'd have been born in the Bronx too.

 

[CyresAres1]

Indeed; if the Margaret is the census Margaret, he'd have been born in the Bronx too.

In the early days of this forum I presented at copy of the marriage application in which he put the name, others have posted it as well. If one looks closely at the spelling of Margaret, it appears as though he spelled it “Margoret”. Another thing to ponder!

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Think I’ve got this right... I read it as Margaret is the Rev Condon daughter and McMahon her married name.

Not the way I am reading it at all. Margaret M. is another Margaret that was also visiting the Condons with her husband Roy while Paul and his mother were at the Condons. I think?

 

[StarrChance]

View attachment 179488


Not the way I am reading it at all. Margaret M. is another Margaret that was also visiting the Condons with her husband Roy while Paul and his mother were at the Condons. I think?

View attachment 179488


Not the way I am reading it at all. Margaret M. is another Margaret that was also visiting the Condons with her husband Roy while Paul and his mother were at the Condons. I think?

Here is the Rev W Condon obituary, mentions Margaret as a daughter ?

 

[StarrChance]

In the early days of this forum I presented at copy of the marriage application in which he put the name, others have posted it as well. If one looks closely at the spelling of Margaret, it appears as though he spelled it “Margoret”. Another thing to ponder!

Can someone repost this certificate? I can’t see it in the one I have, thinking I missed one.

 

[Vern]

Here is the Rev W Condon obituary, mentions Margaret as a daughter ?
View attachment 179489

I read it as the Reverend was her father, but that obit confirms it for me. Thank you.